The Wine Thread

[TheRiddick]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

Here's a picture of a Jean Bourdy tasting I went to the other night. Jura wines are among the longest living and able to age wines available. Their whites can age 150 years no problem.

Too bad all the so called "professionals" keep telling people its the red wines that age better and longer. In fact, whites age way better and are more affordable to boot (Chenin Blanc, Riesling, Champagnes, Sauternes, etc.)

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

Too bad all the so called "professionals" keep telling people its the red wines that age better and longer. In fact, whites age way better and are more affordable to boot (Chenin Blanc, Riesling, Champagnes, Sauternes, etc.)

Any "expert" should know that acidity is what makes for long term aging, not tannin.

What I found interesting from this tasting is that Bourdy says that wine cellars should have seasonal temp swings if you want to age wine a long time. Their cellar goes from freezing to 60 degrees and that steady temp cellars do not age wine for a long time (30+ years) as well.

[TheRiddick]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

Any "expert" should know that acidity is what makes for long term aging, not tannin.

What I found interesting from this tasting is that Bourdy says that wine cellars should have seasonal temp swings if you want to age wine a long time. Their cellar goes from freezing to 60 degrees and that steady temp cellars do not age wine for a long time (30+ years) as well.

You're preaching to the choir here, Moses. I was lambasted by the self appointed experts, both consumers and pros, when I pointed out that it is the acidity and not tannin that preserves wine after Jancis Robinson made a statement that tannin is the main preserver. Pointed out a good number of wines, as examples, that don't even see oak, or are aged in very old barrels that are more than neutral, whites that age much longer and better than those using new oak by the simple fact of built-in acidity. Same thing when I took Parker to task on the subject, his arguments fell apart as I took them all down, one by one. No matter, I was the villain in the argument and no matter how stupid and ridiculous Parker's arguments looked his sycophants ran with them as they defended his POV. Still do if you ask them. But Parker and Robinson are not alone, I deal with supposed pros (retail and restaurant buyers) that think same way they were taught never asking the right questions and blindly following what "books say".

Champagne is the perfect example here: No oak aging, plenty of acidity and built-in ability to live and age for a very, very long time.

I don't know about lonnnnng term aging of whites but some that I have overlooked in my cellar that got to be 15 years old tasted great.
I have always heard that seasonal temp variation is ok but daily swings are damaging. This is the first time I have heard that seasonal variation is desirable. I will worry less about my cellar now.

[TheRiddick]

Originally Posted by BC-Axeman

I don't know about lonnnnng term aging of whites but some that I have overlooked in my cellar that got to be 15 years old tasted great.
I have always heard that seasonal temp variation is ok but daily swings are damaging. This is the first time I have heard that seasonal variation is desirable. I will worry less about my cellar now.

Lance, temp variation issues are overplayed, IMO. Wines are more than sturdy when aging. I do not recommend allowing them to go through wild temp swings, but even daily up and down swings of a few degrees are fine. Most in my tasting group have wine cellars of some sort, I simply keep one room in the house cooled down (can't afford anything that could hold 60-80+ cases) and wines that I bring to tastings never show any storage issues. We're talking 60-74F temps depending on season.

[mosesbotbol]

I have a natural cellar that sees seasonal swings and have been using it over 15 years. The oldest bottles are as nice as one would want of "good provenance" bottles. I see little reason to modify except for increased humdity which does not bode well in an open home cellar next

[mosesbotbol]

Here's a cool bottle I can't wait to try:

[kelmac07]

A few pick-ups for Kellie. Been hunting down the Roscato for about six months now. Kept getting told there was no such thing as a red moscato...but I kept on hunting. Perseverance paid off!!

[G G]

Mac is the red moscato sweet or semi sweet?

[kelmac07]

Originally Posted by G G

Mac is the red moscato sweet or semi sweet?

Supposed to be sweet...as the regular white moscato is a very sweet wine. The red moscato is supposed to have hints of berry to it. Haven't cracked a bottle yet.

I saw a red moscato at Kroger's of all places just a few days ago.

Also, I picked up a a bottle of Penfold's Grandfather Port last Friday after a tasting here in Columbus. Grahams 20 year tawny was my favorite, until now! Recommended for any lovers of Port Wine.

[South Shield]

This is my absolute favorite wine right now. 100% Cabernet.

Opened my first bottle of 2007 Robert Mondavi Oakville Cabernet Sauvignon. Drinking great right now. Decanted about 2 hours. Some great values in 07 cabs from Cali. I need to stack a few more mid range priced 07's away. Also opened a 2006 Peju Cab Franc. Wow. what a wine. Great earthy flavors, and some forest floor action going on. Not as much oak character as one would expect. This is a wine for the old world wine drinkers to check out.

[mmblz]

Originally Posted by ChicagoWhiteSox

Also opened a 2006 Peju Cab Franc. Wow. what a wine. Great earthy flavors, and some forest floor action going on. Not as much oak character as one would expect. This is a wine for the old world wine drinkers to check out.

I have an 05 Reserve in the basement. Peju makes some very good wines.

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by ChicagoWhiteSox

Opened my first bottle of 2007 Robert Mondavi Oakville Cabernet Sauvignon. Drinking great right now. Decanted about 2 hours. Some great values in 07 cabs from Cali. I need to stack a few more mid range priced 07's away. Also opened a 2006 Peju Cab Franc. Wow. what a wine. Great earthy flavors, and some forest floor action going on. Not as much oak character as one would expect. This is a wine for the old world wine drinkers to check out.

Where is Peju wines from? I like Cab Franc wines.

"Earthy" and "forest floor" are not flavors I think about in wine. Living in the forest and tasting earth occasionally may have an affect on that.

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

Where is Peju wines from? I like Cab Franc wines.

Napa. I had a friend take a vacation in Napa a few months back and he stopped at Peju. He brought back a bunch of good bottles. Napa would be a great trip to make.

[eber]

I have had quite a few Pejus, my Grandparents love them and always bring a few bottles over for family dinners. They have always been solid performers in my book

Originally Posted by BC-Axeman

"Earthy" and "forest floor" are not flavors I think about in wine. Living in the forest and tasting earth occasionally may have an affect on that.

Try a cab franc from the Loire Valley. Hard to believe you've never tasted earth/soil in a wine before. I'd also tell you to try a pinot from North Burgundy, but then again unless you like the smell of sh!t, you won't enjoy them. Sh!t is not an aroma anyone thinks about in wine at first thought.

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by ChicagoWhiteSox

Try a cab franc from the Loire Valley.

Gamay from Loire can be full of non-fruit driven flavors too. I like Loire Valley wines and they are well priced