Bulging Discs in back?

[Blueface]

I didn't write this either.

http://www.ehow.com/about_5084589_si...r-surgery.html

Or this.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/blood...r-surgery.html

Or this.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...-research.html

Or this.

http://www.webmd.com/dvt/news/200912...clot-risk-high

Or this.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...at_should.html

[Blueface]

I know I said enough of DT BUT.......

Here is what one of the article says.
Like most things, developing a blood clot after surgery is more common with age. The chances become higher for individuals over 40 years of age. If you are over 40 and are anticipating a surgery you must be aware of the symptoms of a blood clot so you can contact your doctor right away.

First, a lot of clots form in the thigh or lower leg. Your leg may begin to experience pain and sudden swelling. The leg can begin to turn a reddish-blue color. Your leg may also begin to feel warm.

Second, Clots can break loose and travel back to your lungs. If it blocks the flow of blood to your lungs you could suffer a pulmonary embolism. This is serious and can often cause sudden death. Contact your doctor immediately if you find yourself suffering from any of the following symptoms: a stabbing chest pain, shortness of breath, a rapid heart beat, dizziness, fainting, profuse sweating, anxiety, coughs for no reason, or coughing up blood.

Now isn't this what happened to DT, it went to his lungs?
Didn't he have surgery and didn't he have a pulmonary embolism?
I know immobilized is key more often but not always.
Aren't you somewhat immobilized post serious invasive back surgery?
If it can happen from a flight on a plane, it cant from any surgery confining you to bed, even if just days?

On to med school for me so I can better debate this.

[mash]

Originally Posted by Blueface

I know I said enough of DT BUT.......

Here is what one of the article says.
Like most things, developing a blood clot after surgery is more common with age. The chances become higher for individuals over 40 years of age. If you are over 40 and are anticipating a surgery you must be aware of the symptoms of a blood clot so you can contact your doctor right away.

First, a lot of clots form in the thigh or lower leg. Your leg may begin to experience pain and sudden swelling. The leg can begin to turn a reddish-blue color. Your leg may also begin to feel warm.

Second, Clots can break loose and travel back to your lungs. If it blocks the flow of blood to your lungs you could suffer a pulmonary embolism. This is serious and can often cause sudden death. Contact your doctor immediately if you find yourself suffering from any of the following symptoms: a stabbing chest pain, shortness of breath, a rapid heart beat, dizziness, fainting, profuse sweating, anxiety, coughs for no reason, or coughing up blood.

Now isn't this what happened to DT, it went to his lungs?
Didn't he have surgery and didn't he have a pulmonary embolism?
I know immobilized is key more often but not always.
Aren't you somewhat immobilized post serious invasive back surgery?
If it can happen from a flight on a plane, it cant from any surgery confining you to bed, even if just days?

On to med school for me so I can better debate this.

When you get there, ask one of your teachers what the term "relative risk" means, and how to apply it.
Please just let this go. I don't know what you do for a living, but I wouldn't presume to have the same expertise as you do in your field, and keep arguing on and on. Doctors, myself included, don't know everything, but this is a simple concept, and it doesn't get more fuzzy just because you can't understand or accept it.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by mash

When you get there, ask one of your teachers what the term "relative risk" means, and how to apply it.
Please just let this go. I don't know what you do for a living, but I wouldn't presume to have the same expertise as you do in your field, and keep arguing on and on. Doctors, myself included, don't know everything, but this is a simple concept, and it doesn't get more fuzzy just because you can't understand or accept it.

Will do.
You call what I call discussion on a discussion board an argument?
Is that what you call it when a patient questions your judgment?
No doctor, including yourself can be provided a different perspective?

In the meantime, what about all the material I posted?
Is it all BS because it does not agree with you?
Why have you chosen to ignore that and instead talk me down?
Should they go back to school also?
Now we are arguing but I am done.
Let those that read this thread decide.
Couldn't care less.

I am genuinely amazed that at out of all on that post, to include quoting from attached material, on to med school for me is the thing to respond to.
Freaking amazing.

[smelvis]

No Offense to either but personally I am dealing with it now and can we move past the guy that died. so maybe the rest of us can get something from this thread. Doc I am interested in your thoughts as well as anyone's!

Thanks everyone.

Dave

[icehog3]

Let's leave the thread for the OP to get some inisght and leave the debate or discussion to PMs or off this thread. Thanks.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by smelvis

No Offense to either but personally I am dealing with it now and can we move past the guy that died. so maybe the rest of us can get something from this thread. Doc I am interested in your thoughts as well as anyone's!

Thanks everyone.

Dave

Originally Posted by icehog3

Let's leave the thread for the OP to get some inisght and leave the debate or discussion to PMs or off this thread. Thanks.

I am done and off I go.
Nothing to debate as never saw it as such.
Doc knows best and I am a fool to not see that, in spite of a litany of material provided for his review.
BTW,
I respectfully also disagree with both of you as I think I'll just disagree with everyone today.
From the OP's first post.
So I am getting an injection on Monday to get me through until I can see a Nero-Surgeon on June 8. Has any here ever had a surgery for a bulging disc in their back?
The dead guy IS relevant, as is the dead girl.
It is about the risk of surgery, which is the OP's direction he may be headed.
The first dead guy had back problems, paralysis and surgery.
Again, pure relevance.
However, I bid a farewell and may all enjoy the Doc's advice.
I'll choose to listen to my doctor and has worked well for me.
Anyone that can't see that, fine. Enjoy your surgery.

[TBone]

This is a lot of reading and I may have lost track but here is what I know from my case. After 3 back surgeries a boat load of epidurals, physical therapy for 10 + years my disc literally looked on X-ray like a bomb went off in my back. The problem I have now is the scare tissue has impeded into my sciatic (or as I like to say psychotic) canal putting excessive pressure on my left side sciatic nerve resulting in loss of feeling in my left foot. I have been told by 3 neurosurgeons that they will not go in and remove the scare tissue for fear of paralyzing me for life. If I could do it all over again minus the blow out I would have tried other therapies out there. This is a decision you'll have to make for you and your quality of life. I wish you all the best take what was stated here and throughout the thread as good info to have and I wish you all the best on the decision you have in front of you. I'll pray that the choice you chose works for you and you don't have to live on pain meds for the rest of your life.

[forgop]

In order to pretty much comply with Tom's request, all I can say is wow...

[forgop]

Originally Posted by Blueface

The dead guy IS relevant, as is the dead girl.
It is about the risk of surgery, which is the OP's direction he may be headed.
The first dead guy had back problems, paralysis and surgery.
Again, pure relevance.

I disagree-clots are a high risk for those who are immobile/paralyzed. Many techniques are used to minimize risk for clots, such as SCD's, ted-hose, medication such as coumadin, and getting the patient walking as soon as possible after surgery. To imply that DT died because of back surgery is ludicrous. The OP's procedure is not one in which he is suffering from paralysis (a leading cause of clot formation in itself), thus he's going to have minimal risk. If surgery alone was that big of a risk leading to clot-related deaths, millions would be dying off I guess.

That said, surgery is far from a first step without considering less invasive procedures, but consult with some recommended doctors in your area for the best advice.

[bobarian]

Originally Posted by icehog3

Let's leave the thread for the OP to get some inisght and leave the debate or discussion to PMs or off this thread. Thanks.

Originally Posted by forgop

In order to pretty much comply with Tom's request, all I can say is wow...

Close but no cigar! Your failure to heed a mod's gentle advice is an EPIC FAIL!

Even real doctors would not give advice based on a vague description of symptoms on a public forum. To speculate of a course of action without viewing an MRI or knowing a complete patient history is just plain ignorant.

[NCRadioMan]

Travis, every case is different but your description sounds almost exactly my situation in 2006 except I had 4 problem disks. The surgeon just glanced at the MRI's and xrays, looked straight up and said, "you have to have surgery". He is a great surgeon and very well regarded, for good reason. Surgery took about 8 hours and afterward, I had to lie down 95% of the day for 3 months. Had the surgery in early Feb. and was 'normal' again come May.

Today, my back isn't perfect (because of a 17 year hip problem) but everything is still in place, spurs gone, no nerve problems. Of course he said surgery is always a last resort but in my case, in his opinion and two other Dr's that I saw, that was the only choice that could be made. I am glad I did.

[longknocker]

Here's My If You Have Back Pain With No Appreciable Sciatica Or Foot Drop (In Other Words No Appreciable Nerve Impingement), Your Back Should Improve With Time. If You Have Foot Drop, Bowel Or Bladder Involvement, Or Any Other Symptoms Of Nerve Impingement, Immediate Surgery Is Required. Get Several Opinions From Reputable Neurosurgeons. Hope Your Situation Improves, Brother; Thoughts & Prayers Sent!

[mash]

Apologies for taking this so far off course. Back pain is miserable, I hope the OP gets relief sooner or later.

[BeerAdvocate]

Thanks for all of the advice and comments. I wouldn't even consider surgery if it was just "normal" back pain. But I have pain that shoots down my leg and in my foot allllllll day long.
I have tried physical therapy, stretching, percocet(with & without beer)....and there is no relief. It doesnt matter what position I am in when I sleep, the pain is there! I will be sure and discuss everything thoroughly with my Dr & Neurosurgeon, but right now I dont see any other option. I am going on two months with this pain and it has been very frustrating.

[shilala]

Travis, I don't want to think I'm minimizing your situation, I just want to tell you what they're likely to do and what you're up against.
First of all, Thank God that it's not both sides from your midback to your feet, and that your legs don't go numb and your feet don't turn to numb needles and pins 20 times a day. Point being, it can be a LOT worse.
Doctors absolutely have to put you through every conservative measure possible. You'd think there's something simple they can do, but there's not. Sometimes folks stumble onto a solution like a new bed or hanging suspended in a pool that brings relief.
They could give you lots more drugs, right? Opiates bind you up. You can't poop, they make you sick, you can easily become addicted, and hemmorhoids ensue to a level that makes your back pain a second thought.
Two months with the pain is a very short time. I know it's driving you out of your mind, but that's just what it is. Not a doctor in the world would consider surgery at this point, and if they would, please run like hell.
I know it's tough to put the pain in perspective as it relates to what the medical field can and will do. Right now, your options are limited. You've got a long, tough road aho.

Here's some stuff that really helped me along the way...
1.) Ice. I put ice cubes in a seal-a-meal and made great big ice packs. Despite covering them real well, I gave myself frostbite a number of times. It helped though. I laid on ice for hours. I also had a back brace that held the ice pack on my back, it helped me wear the ice day and night if necessary.
2.) I tried heat. It drove me out of my mind, but it helps lots of people because it loosens the muscle spasms that make the nerve impingement worse.
3.) Flector patches. They're NSAID patches that you stick on and the medicine goes right down through your skin. It never enters your bloodstream, or so they say. They still work wonders for me when the swelling gets big as a turtle. They are hideously expensive, but your doc may have samples.
4.) Fight through the pain. When the pain would get absolutely unbearable, I'd go outside, even in the middle of the night and dig up a stump or dig a hole, or move cement blocks. I'd collapse, cry, go through all sorts of histrionics. The pain would be so bad that I thought I'd die. Then when I stopped, what was left seemed like a vacation. It just changed my perspective. Being as all the bones in my back were smashed, it wasn't a real good idea. It was that or go nuts.
5.) Physical therapy in the pool. The relief didn't last long, sometimes there was no relief at all. But ten minutes of relief was worth all the pain getting there and getting out of there.
6.) Read, read, read. Every second I could, I was reading at back pain forums, back surgery forums, reading about the structure of the back, finding out what to expect and what were unrealistic expectations.
7.) Learn the limitations of medicine. There's a reason why it's called "practicing" medicine. Doctors are not magicians. When we are in so much pain, we expect that they should spend their every waking moment trying to solve our predicament. When they don't, I got a "they don't care" attitude. They do care. There's only so much they can do.
8.) Realize that time takes time. Time heals all wounds is really bullsh1t, but it does play a huge part in recovery from a back injury. A lot of it is that we just get used to pain. Right now there's not much of my body that doesn't hurt. Pain is running down my right leg because I chose that. When I'm tired of that pain, I'll move my butt a little and it'll stream down my left leg. I've simply gotten used to pain. I don't notice when I get cut, smash a finger, or stub a toe anymore. I just keep moving and Thank God I can do that.
9.) Learn your body. That goes with reading, but make notes. Write down when it hurts most, and try to figure out why. You're your body's steward and you'll need to pay close attention from here on out, and you'll need to heed your limits or pay the price. The notes really help put two and two together. I use notes and my wife to track a neurological disorder I have, and without her and the notes I would have never made the progress I have. There's just too much info to keep straight in my brain.
10.) When the barometric pressure dips below 30.00, it's gonna hurt worse. Watch the pressure and use it to prepare, and use it as solace to answer "why does this hurt so much more today?
11.) Pray. I pray constantly. If not for Him and the help and support of my friends and family, I've never have made it this far.

My accident was on March 4, 2008. My pain level up till surgery was a constant 10. Immediately after surgery I had some relief, maybe down to a 6 or 7, for a few months. Since then, It's generally a 9 or 10 all day every day. On sunny high pressure days it goes to around a 7. For the last three days it's been a solid 10, and it woke me up a number of times last night. Like I said, we get used to it.

Try some of the stuff I mentioned, and give each a good shot. You can't try for an hour, get frustrated, and go to something else. It all takes time.
It all sucks, and it all is very tough on your head. When you get upset it gets worse. From day one I took it as an opportunity to work on my patience and tolerance, and I've come a long, long way as a person because of it. I would have much rather it were granted to me in another way, but that's what was in store for me. It hasn't killed me, it won't kill me, and it's made me a better person. Life is different, but people's lives change all the time.
I just thank God I'm not in a wheelchair or worse. I never forget "but for the Grace of God, there go I". It may sound odd that I'm thankful for the hand I've been dealt, but I am. I wouldn't trade lives with anyone.

[forgop]

Originally Posted by BeerAdvocate

Thanks for all of the advice and comments. I wouldn't even consider surgery if it was just "normal" back pain. But I have pain that shoots down my leg and in my foot allllllll day long.
I have tried physical therapy, stretching, percocet(with & without beer)....and there is no relief. It doesnt matter what position I am in when I sleep, the pain is there! I will be sure and discuss everything thoroughly with my Dr & Neurosurgeon, but right now I dont see any other option. I am going on two months with this pain and it has been very frustrating.

I know it's already been mentioned and maybe you've already answered it and I just overlooked it, but are you at a "healthy" weight? I know taking 50 lbs off of my midsection would do wonders for my back. I know I was "lucky" that I wasn't really experiencing pain, but the ultimate reason why I chose surgery is because I could have ultimately lost bladder function (and other highly desired capabilities if you know what I mean) and even ultimately wake up one day and be unable to walk normally.

That would suck and if you're experiencing that sort of pain, I would get the opinion from at least 2 different doctors, and if they have different suggestions, get a third.

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by Blueface

P.s.
Best cure.........lose weight.
Exercise.
Do leg raises and other exercise to strengthen back.

Most folks I know post surgery are not much better than before.

Very true. Do not rush to surgery and most surgeons are not going to rush you either if you can go to the bathroom or can walk. I have been through this without surgery.

Consider the below as a roadmap. You are already getting a cortisone shot. This is your chance to make changes to your body before the shot wears out and hopefully you won’t need a 2nd one.

Think of your spine, you want to get it straight and create space between each vertebra.

-Not having it straight inhibits energy flow out of the spine and central nervous system. It also puts unequal stress on disks and furthers your condition. Chiropractor is the key to this. It may get worse before getting better, but keep the goal of getting things aligned and your bulge almost has to go away…

-Creating space in the spine should have obvious reasoning to you. The most space between vertebrae, the less the pressure on the disks.

Think of the above as a one-two punch all done with specialists. This is not cheap even with insurance, but is nothing like the pain you have and will have if you don’t do this.

Start practicing yoga and stretching to create space. Take some pilates classes to strengthen your core without stressing the back. Get on a plan with a good chiropractor who will oversee you exercise program and stretch you before adjusting. There are yoga and pilate instructors in every city. After a few classes of each with an istructor, you should be able to handle a class.

Originally Posted by BeerAdvocate

Thanks for all of the advice and comments. I wouldn't even consider surgery if it was just "normal" back pain. But I have pain that shoots down my leg and in my foot allllllll day long.

You have sciatica straight up. As long as you are twisted & compressed on the lower back, you'll have inflamation of the nerve and it ain't going away no matter how much booze or pills you take.

[BeerAdvocate]

I really appreciate all of the advice and useful info. Thanks guys!

[forgop]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

Very true. Do not rush to surgery and most surgeons are not going to rush you either if you can go to the bathroom or can walk. I have been through this without surgery.

Consider the below as a roadmap. You are already getting a cortisone shot. This is your chance to make changes to your body before the shot wears out and hopefully you won’t need a 2nd one.

Think of your spine, you want to get it straight and create space between each vertebra.

-Not having it straight inhibits energy flow out of the spine and central nervous system. It also puts unequal stress on disks and furthers your condition. Chiropractor is the key to this. It may get worse before getting better, but keep the goal of getting things aligned and your bulge almost has to go away…

-Creating space in the spine should have obvious reasoning to you. The most space between vertebrae, the less the pressure on the disks.

Think of the above as a one-two punch all done with specialists. This is not cheap even with insurance, but is nothing like the pain you have and will have if you don’t do this.

Start practicing yoga and stretching to create space. Take some pilates classes to strengthen your core without stressing the back. Get on a plan with a good chiropractor who will oversee you exercise program and stretch you before adjusting. There are yoga and pilate instructors in every city. After a few classes of each with an istructor, you should be able to handle a class.



You have sciatica straight up. As long as you are twisted & compressed on the lower back, you'll have inflamation of the nerve and it ain't going away no matter how much booze or pills you take.