LOST Notes

[Beagleone]

Originally Posted by weak_link

Last night seemed like more fluff and not enough meat & potatoes. Time is running out and I don't feel like we're making enough progress. Then I'll be sad when it ends and I can't complain about the fluff.

The producers have already said they will not be able to answer all of the questions before the series finale. You are just going to have to take what they give us and go from there. Personally last night, I think we got more answers in the first 7 minutes than we had in the past year or two.

[OLS]

Originally Posted by Beagleone

The producers have already said they will not be able to answer all of the questions before the series finale.

Ironically, they also said they would answer all the questions before the end.
In a big splashy promo. I guess what they say in a magazine or online and
what they say in promos can be different and it's just OK. I hate them.
"The check's in the mail and I promise I won't ____ __ ____ ______!

[kaisersozei]

Originally Posted by Mugen910

A great theory from a LOST website. The writer goes into detail regarding how the seasons are mirroring each other:

I think this is also the reason for a lot of the imagery of mirrors (heh, get it--"mirror imagery"?!) being used this year. Many of the characters (except, I think, Hurley) spend time gazing at their reflections in each of their character-centric episodes.

[newcigarz]

Originally Posted by OLS

LOST can cup my nuts.

[OLS]

Originally Posted by newcigarz

Notice however that I still feel the need to have an opinion.

[Mugen910]

No new episode next week.



1. Flash-sideways:
* Jack:

i. Jack reviews John Locke’s injury at the hospital. That passing reference to Locke's obliterated dural sac was a nod to the classic moment in the pilot when Jack recounted his most harrowing moment as a young doctor. He had to repair a dural sac and seized with fear. His father told him to count to 10. Jack recounted this story when he talked Kate through stitching up his side wound after the 815 crash.

ii. Upon entering the office building where Ilana’s office was a sign read "Visitors must sign in". Both Claire and Desmond signed it, and later Jack but not David. Perhaps this is indicative of our Losties being nothing more than visitors to this timeline.

iii. Jack peers into the operating room mirror and sees Locke's face, and as viewers we're flashed back to the spinal operation he did on Ben at the Hydra station. This is where Ben cryptically told Jack "See you on the other side", something that made little sense at the time. Now however, Jack is on the other side. Maybe this scenario is what triggers his own magic memory moment.

* Desmond: Much like Flocke, he is manipulating Losties toward a specific end. Both resort to violence to get what they want. And both are hard to resist if you allow them to start talking to you.
* Kate: At the Police Station she claimed to be innocent. Maybe she is innocent in the flash-sideways world?
* Sawyer: Eating an apple when he sat down to talk with Kate. The apple was the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden that Eve gave to Adam. Sawyer asked Kate if she wanted an apple. She didn't take it but was it a clue on who will be the Adam & Eve on the island? Just about everyone in this scene wears black. Sawyer, Kate, the police, the detectives... even the hat Kate puts on as Sawyer runs off to catch Sayid is black.



2. Flocke:
* Flocke sent Sawyer off to retrieve the sailboat so Flocke’s camp could sail over to Hydra Island. So off he went with Kate, splintering from the rest of the group. This was a mirror of what happened at the end of Season 2, as Hurley, Jack, Kate, and Sawyer went off to confront The Others, and Sayid, Sun, and Jin took the sailboat to try and meet up with them.

· Admitted to appearing as Christian Shepherd on the island (to help Jack find water).



3. Sailboat: The Elizabeth: the sailboat Libby gave to Desmond for his solo trip around the world.



4. On-Island Jack:
* Jack and Flocke talking by torchlight at night, yet when they went back to camp it was daylight.
* 2 creepy scenes: 1) Jack saying: "If that thing wants us to leave, maybe it's afraid of what happens if we stay?" and 2) Claire saying to Jack "You decided the moment you let him talk to you, like the rest of us. Whether you like it or not, you're with him now."
* From Season 3's finale, only now instead of Jack yelling after Kate, "We have to go back!" Kate is now yelling at Sawyer about Jack..."We have to go back!"

· The beach explosions: I didn’t hear this but other people describe the scene as follows… “First, when Jack hits the ground, sounds like he just fell into water...you can hear a splash. Then you hear a bunch of muffled voices, sounds like chaos. Then a woman’s voice (sounds like Kate), scream "noooooo". Then it sounds like Jack's voice says "Kate"....and then you hear a woman say "Sawyer".” Is this something we haven't seen yet or just the whisperers getting excited as they tend to do? Flocke stands motionless as Hell breaks out all around him. Creepy.

* Sawyer demands that Jack leave “his” boat. What Sawyer doesn't realize is that the off-island world isn't all that it's cracked up to be... something Jack learned first-hand a few seasons back, while Sawyer was stuck in the Dharma Initiative.



5. Widmore:

· Widmore orders that the Losties be taken prisoner. Warning: Star Wars reference coming… Did Widmore just pull an Emperor Palpatine? Emperor Palpatine initially acts as a man who has good intentions and loyalty, but look out, he is actually Darth Sidious! And what did Emperor Palpatine want to do? Set in motion a war to weaken the Senate and Jedi's so he could take control.....hmmm sounds familiar. As Ben and Flocke have said, Widmore just wants control of the Island.

· But now, why does he want the Candidates (minus Sayid)? As bait to lure Flocke there since Flocke needs them to leave? Does Widmore want to kill our Losties...just as he gave the green light to when he sent the freighter?

· Interesting Theory! Flocke and Widmore are actually collaborators in a conspiracy to manipulate (and ultimately destroy) the castaways in order to achieve mutually advantageous goals. We know that Flocke wants to leave The Island. What might Widmore want in this scenario? Maybe Widmore wants to replace Flocke as the new Smokey. Maybe Widmore is driven by a fear of death; becoming a black cloud of all-powerful disembodied consciousness is his ticket to eternal life.



6. Sayid:
* Sayid's problem is that he allows other people to define him — and then buys into it. His father, his country, the United States military, Ben, Dogen, and Flocke — they've all told Sayid that he's a killer, and he's accepted their judgment. Desmond's challenge to Sayid: Decide for yourself who you are and what you want to be. Maybe Sayid accepted Desmond's challenge and decided that who he wants to be is the man Nadia fell in love with — the man who chose not to be her killer; the man who sacrificed his own safety so that she could be free. He made a choice to be that man once. Maybe at the well, Sayid made the choice to be that man again?
* Desmond says "What will you tell her?" Perhaps the only thing Sayid cares about (if he is starting to feel things again) is what Nadia thinks of him, both on and off the island. In the flash-sideways world he packs his things telling Nadia he has to leave forever, Nadia says “what did you do?”



7. Kate theory: She has always been on the lamb or running from something. This show is about redemption so maybe it’s Kate who replaces Jacob… in a job that can last… centuries?



8. Claire: Claire tells Jack that a person who lets Flocke speak to them is automatically committed to his side. Later, she is convinced by Kate that she still has a choice and switches sides after 3 years???



9. The previews from the end of the episode: "HIS SOUL HAD GONE MAD - BEING ALONE IN THE WILDERNESS.” This line is from Heart of Darkness, the book that Apocalypse Now was based on. In the book, as Kurtz dies he says “the horrors…” also mentioned in the previews.



10. Questioning Ghost Jacob’s motives: When Hurley got lost in the jungle and stumbled upon Jacob's cabin and peeked in the window and saw Ghost Christian in a rocking chair. Then an eyeball popped into the frame and glared right back at him and scared the hell out of Hurley. Assuming that Jacob's cabin didn't belong to Jacob at all, but was instead a prison for Smokey, I wonder if Smokey literally got into Hurley's head in that moment and has been messing with him ever since.



Consider Ghost Jacob. In the season premiere, he instructed Hurley to take Sayid to The Temple for healing. How did that turn out? Sayid came back to life and helped Flocke. In ''Lighthouse,'' Ghost Jacob instructed Hurley to take Jack to the lighthouse by evoking his father's memory. (''You have what it takes.'') How did that turn out? The experience left Jack convinced that Jacob was a perverted voyeur who had been spying on him since childhood and further convinced him that The Island was not a place where he'd find healing for his brokenness. Putting Jack in such a place helps Flocke’s cause because it sets Jack up for one of Flocke’s bargains. What do you want most in the world, Jack? Reconciliation with someone you love? Your father, perhaps? Because I can do that. We haven't heard Flocke verbally make that pitch yet, but judging from what we've seen in the Sideways world, it looks like Sideways Jack lives in a world where his father issues have been resolved via an increasingly healthy relationship with his son.

11. Smokey is the embodiment of fear theory: When Jack told Flocke he didn't have any idea what he was, Flocke offered a cryptic reply: ''Sure you do.'' Was Flocke hinting at the secret to his true identity and nature, and that if Jack recognized him as he truly was, he would realize that he's known him quite well for a very long time. Flash back to Jack's ''count to five'' story about fear management in the pilot episode. Maybe Flocke is an embodiment of fear. Many characters have been referring to Flocke as “that thing” lately (See: Ilana, Richard, Widmore.) Of course, The Thing is a title belonging to two great science fiction films, the 1951 Howard Hawks original and the 1982 John Carpenter remake, about an alien life form marooned on Earth. Both were allegories about xenophobia and demonization.



12. Stephen King: His new book Under the Dome is set a few years into the future. A character mentions watching a sequel to the show LOST. It is called "The Hunted Ones."

[Tripp]

Originally Posted by Mugen910

No new episode next week.

I thought that they were doing an uninterrupted season this year...

[OLS]

Originally Posted by Tripp

I thought that they were doing an uninterrupted season this year...

They were, and like everything else they told us, it's a big lie.

I thought this was funny in Muge's update:

Jack and Flocke talking by torchlight at night, yet when they went back to camp it was daylight

In any other entertainment thread context, this is a continuity issue. In lost it's a clue,

The explosions on the beach I did hear the calling back and forth and the muffled voices, but
I assumed it was just ear ringy stuff. I'd have to watch it again for a splash sound. It could
be that people associated the muffled and ringy sound as underwater. To me it was like the
opening of Saving Private Ryan. Just compression probs in the ear.

[OLS]

I like what was also written HERE:

''I remember how I felt the last time I left. Like a part of me was missing. We were brought here because we were supposed to do something, James. And if Locke — of that 'thing' — wants us to leave, then maybe it's afraid of what happens if we stay?'' In that line, it seemed to me that Jack was applying several lessons of his Island experience, including all the hard lessons Ben had taught him over the years about Island bad guys. Island bad guys figure out what you want most in life, then exploit it. Island bad guys always motivate you with fear and urgency and want you to act before you've taken the time to think things through. Island bad guys make it sound like you share common interests, but in most cases, whatever it is they want you to do is actually the exact opposite of what you should be doing.

[kaisersozei]

Originally Posted by OLS

The explosions on the beach I did hear the calling back and forth and the muffled voices, but
I assumed it was just ear ringy stuff. I'd have to watch it again for a splash sound. It could
be that people associated the muffled and ringy sound as underwater. To me it was like the
opening of Saving Private Ryan. Just compression probs in the ear.

My wife noted the underwater muffles, too, and related it to the same kind of muffled sounds Kate heard when she shimmied down out of the tree in this season's premiere. She thinks it's somehow related to the fact that the island is underwater in the sideways world.

She also premised that what Sayid "wants most in the world" might no longer be Nadia--which everone assumes--but instead may be Shannon (Boone's stepsister.) I had forgotten all about the Sayid-Shannon relationship.

One last thing that I haven't read anywhere: when Kate is fleeing the airport in the cab, they come to a screeching halt in front of Artz & all his luggage. Artz bangs the hood of the cab and says "I'm walkin' here! I'm walkin' here!" There was something about that line that stuck in my head, and I finally figured out what it was after re-watching that episode recently: it's a relatively famous line by Dustin Hoffman from Midnight Cowboy. Artz said it with the exact same inflection & cadence. It was also used in Back to the Future 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yov2d0MmVsc

Probably doesn't have anything to do with anything, I was just proud of myself for spotting something!

[Mugen910]

Originally Posted by kaisersozei

My wife noted the underwater muffles, too, and related it to the same kind of muffled sounds Kate heard when she shimmied down out of the tree in this season's premiere. She thinks it's somehow related to the fact that the island is underwater in the sideways world.

She also premised that what Sayid "wants most in the world" might no longer be Nadia--which everone assumes--but instead may be Shannon (Boone's stepsister.) I had forgotten all about the Sayid-Shannon relationship.

One last thing that I haven't read anywhere: when Kate is fleeing the airport in the cab, they come to a screeching halt in front of Artz & all his luggage. Artz bangs the hood of the cab and says "I'm walkin' here! I'm walkin' here!" There was something about that line that stuck in my head, and I finally figured out what it was after re-watching that episode recently: it's a relatively famous line by Dustin Hoffman from Midnight Cowboy. Artz said it with the exact same inflection & cadence. It was also used in Back to the Future 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yov2d0MmVsc

Probably doesn't have anything to do with anything, I was just proud of myself for spotting something!

very nice catch.

[OLS]

Sorry, if it was Saving Private Ryan it was underwater muffles. When The guys exit the
landing craft, the sound design is wicked cool in that when the camera is underwater,
the sound is muffled and when it comes out of the water it comes back to full. A striking
effect I'll always love from that movie. If it's ear ringing, it actually reminds me of "Carentan"
in Band of Brothers after a round explodes next to a guy and his hearing is muffled and
ineffective. I likened the muffles to the fact that a major explosion had just taken place.
With my hearing, I am lucky if I hear the whispering people when the smoke shows up.
No need to get all worried about what happens this week.

[Mugen910]

No new episode this week so just some thoughts and info to share:



1) A funny video summarizing Locke’s story through the use of action figures and rap music:

LOST Untangled: Locked and Loaded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV1SXXnJVT0

2) Why is Jack suddenly calling Sawyer “James?” He never used to do that.

3) Some items that popped up during the enhanced re-run of Richard’s episode (I can’t confirm these because I didn’t watch it myself):

· * Revealed that Jacob brings people, who have directly or indirectly taken a life, to the island.

* The first rule of the Island is that no one enters the statue without Jacob’s permission, and that Flocke and Ben broke that rule.



* Flocke couldn't leave the island even when Jacob was killed (because of the candidates).



* When Isabella appeared to Richard on the ship she was actually the smoke monster. She appeared to Hurley the other time as a seemingly normal ghost.



* That Jacob “claims” to be the protector of the island. (Why was “claims” in parenthesis?)



· * A caption read (paraphrasing) that in season 1 Jack said that the Losties’ pasts did not matter anymore. That since the crash they were all given the chance to start over. (Maybe this redemption is what breaks the cycle that Flocke spoke about to Jacob… Jacob’s response “it only ends once. Everything else is just progress.”)

* Revealed that the doctor Richard went to for help for Isabella’s cough was conning him… the medicine the doctor wanted Richard’s money for was not a cure.

4) Theory! What if by choosing John Locke’s body to take over, Smokey will essentially be the cause of his own demise, since Locke was a candidate? Or, what if Jacob took over Smokey’s original body and when Ben pushed that body into the fire he destroyed Smokey’s original body… which will somehow prevent Smokey from leaving the island? Basically, has Smokey been tricked into being trapped in the "wrong" body?

5) Theory! Remember Ben’s childhood friend Annie? The one who made him the dolls? What if Ben and Annie were “together” later on the island, Annie got pregnant and died. This would explain why she was no longer on the island later in life and why Ben had a preoccupation with the island’s pregnancy issues. I doubt her mysterious disappearance from the show will be resolved so I’m just going to pretend this is what happened. J

6) Interview with the show’s producer:

“Damon Lindelof says Lost fans will be asking, "What did they mean by this?" after they see the series finale of ABC's mind-bending series. In a video interview with The Hollywood Reporter, the show's executive producer says that the final episodes are meant to answer questions, as well as provoke others. "We're trying to end Lost in a way that feels Lost-ian and fair and will generate a tremendous amount of theorizing," he said. "We're going to be as definitive as we can be and say this is our ending, but there's no way to end the show where the fans aren't going to say, 'What did they mean by this?' Which is why we're not going to explain it."

Lindelof and Carlton Cuse, his co-executive producer on the show, have publicly stated that they won't comment on the finale after it airs on May 23.

Lindelof also revealed that the final scene of the series was not shot sequentially, since new sets had to be constructed for the purpose. "That would have been a very nice idea to [shoot the last scene last], but for reasons of maintaining the secrecy of the show, and burying it in the middle of the production schedule was part of it, and also, we had to build some sets for the finale."”

[OLS]

This is why they are Aholes. I am sure that they do not owe me my life back after wasting 5+ years on this crappo,
but to say all the questions will be answered and then constantly back off ot that statment is just intolerable BS.
I wish em all luck in hell.

[white_s2k]

Originally Posted by OLS

This is why they are Aholes. I am sure that they do not owe me my life back after wasting 5+ years on this crappo,
but to say all the questions will be answered and then constantly back off ot that statment is just intolerable BS.
I wish em all luck in hell.

[mosesbotbol]

Wow is all I can say about last night. The Kwon's exit was quite emotional. Sayid is gone too... Sawyer is such a stuborn prick.

[kaisersozei]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

Wow is all I can say about last night. The Kwon's exit was quite emotional. Sayid is gone too... Sawyer is such a stuborn prick.

QFT

And don't forget: Lapidus took a hatch door to the head...

I read somewhere (here?) that the producers had a few episodes this season where they "cleaned house." Guess last night was one of them.

Widmore telling Kate that she's not on any list further made me suspicious that he's in league with Flocke somehow. Kate's name was crossed off of Flocke's cave list, but IIRC she was still active on Jacob's lighthouse list.

Powerful episode last night.

[weak_link]

So if Sawyer didn't pull the bomb wires out the island wouldn't have let Jack die and all would still be fine? Is Jack our guy for sure at this point? I don't believe that, my money is still on Hurley. Or...or...or....

[mosesbotbol]

I think Widmore is a good guy. Notice Ben was not in last night's episode at all? What does that mean? Where was he?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by weak_link

So if Sawyer didn't pull the bomb wires out the island wouldn't have let Jack die and all would still be fine? Is Jack our guy for sure at this point? I don't believe that, my money is still on Hurley. Or...or...or....

I think Sawyer's affirmative act made the detonation and possible death of all the candidates possible. Smokey couldn't do it on his own - the bomb would have fizzled like the dynamite in the cave. Richard couldn't kill a candidate either. But once Sawyer altered it, it became live.