How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long Post

[MiamiE]

I have contacted the vendor. Nothing they can do, IMO. THese more than likely wont make it out of the country. Unfortunately this is just the way it is.

[MiamiE]

I thought the cedar acted like a barrier between the aluminum and the cigar. I took out and dumped the cedar. Will clean the tubos later.

[shilala]

Well done post, Shawn.
I was reading Wayner's problem. There's another explanation besides cross-contamination...
The temp charts you posted are annotated for simplicity. They're originally from a study that considered an 80% kill rate as "controlled", then "scientifically" (read, guessed at) adjusted for maximum efficacy. That's because beetles, just like most other bugs, become resistant to cold as they march north. Natural selection isolates the fittest, and they become more resistant. There's always a mutant bizarro or two in a batch of bugs that you just can't kill with freezing.
Wayner could just be THAT lucky.
Despite that, freezing lowers the odds of infestation dramatically. It's good practice, and as you've suggested, even better practice to do everything yourself.

Originally Posted by MiamiE

I have contacted the vendor. Nothing they can do, IMO. THese more than likely wont make it out of the country. Unfortunately this is just the way it is.

Any reputable Vendor would have taken them back.

I would suggest if they said there is nothing they can do that maybe they are not a vendor that you want to use anymore.

[MiamiE]

There is something they can do but like I said, they won't make it back to them. They'll be confiscated.

[Ferrari5180]

Can I ask why you believe that they will not make it out of the country? If it is the vendor that told you this, then obviously they are lying so that they do not have to replace the sticks.

[WeekendSmoker]

I just found beetles. Grrrrrrr....... I had to toss an entire box of ISOMs ( from 2003) and now I am going though about 40 or so boxes, checking them one by one. So far I have found a few other ones which I had to toss.
Obviously I am already started freezing the first batch.
Not happy.
WeekendSmoker

[Ferrari5180]

You can try freezing the cigars with minimal beetle damage. Do you freeze your cigars when you buy them?

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by WeekendSmoker

I just found beetles. Grrrrrrr....... I had to toss an entire box of ISOMs ( from 2003) and now I am going though about 40 or so boxes, checking them one by one. So far I have found a few other ones which I had to toss.
Obviously I am already started freezing the first batch.
Not happy.
WeekendSmoker

Why not just smoke them? Was the damage so bad that you couldn't smoke the cigar?

Originally Posted by wayner123

Why not just smoke them? Was the damage so bad that you couldn't smoke the cigar?

Freeze to prevent further contamination but I smoked all my beetle damaged sticks........satisfies some primal urge to know the little fckers burned

[WeekendSmoker]

My cigars are (in boxes) in 4 coolidors stacked on top of each other / next to each other. I generally I check on them about once a week to make sure humidity is in the right ballpark (I use beads).
A friend came over and wanted to try some which were on the bottom of one of the cooler. I noticed some dust on the bottom of the cooler, opend the box (punch punch btw) and the entire box had pretty much turned into dust with lots of dead beetles in it.
Quite a shock.
I checked every cigar in every box in the coolidor with the problem and there were only a couple of cigars with holes.
I then started checking the other coolidors and I actually saw some beetles running around on the inside of them. There was one box (monte #2) with a couple of cigars with holes, and some beetles running around..
Long story short, both the montes as well as the punch came from the same vendor (in the same shipment) and I do not freeze cigars - never had a problem until now.
Now I am in the process of freezing every box (after closely inspecting them of course) for between 12 and 24 hours and moving them to a clean coolidors (washed out with with bleach just because I'm paranoid).
What is interesting is that I found beetles in coolidors which did not have cigars from the suspected shipment, and because I saw some running around on the walls of the cooler I suspect that they can actually move from cooler to cooler looking for dinner.
Beetles are very easy to crush. they are not like cockroaches that you can't kill. (more info you don't want to know..)
Several lessons learned:

-Freeze all new additions to the collection
-Check cigars fairly frequently - an argument for rotatating them. The Montes with beetles seemed ok when looking at the first layer. The bottom layer was the one with the infested cigars. Simply opening a box and looking at the top layer is not thorough enough. One way to see if you have a problem is to tilt the box in question and tap it to see if dust comes out. Obviously don't do this over your cigar collection, but over a light surface so you can see what the debris consists of......little pieces of tobacco are normal but dust is not. Once you see the difference in the kinds of debris (and I hope you BOTLs never will) it is very obvious.
-don't keep all your cigars in one location as beetles can move around more than expected.

I have a problem with temperatures. Generally my cigars are stored at 60-65% humidity and about 70-74 degrees. Too warm. I know it and/but there is not much I can do about it. I don't have the space for a vinotemp and trying to keep the temperature down by adding icepacks is a nice theory but to do that 24/7 for years on end for 4-5 coolidors is unrealistic.

One of the positive side effects is that I had a cigar from a box which used to be on the bottom (a Partagas 2004 EL) which I had not had in many years. It was a whole lot better and integrated than when I got that box a couple of years ago.
I hope you guys can avoid some of the mistakes I've made.

WeekendSmoker
edit: in the boxes which had been severely infected the beetles seemed to have a preference for the darkest, oiliest cigars. Perhaps a coicidence, perhaps not. Just and observation (though on a small number of datapoints....)

[bonjing]

When freezing boxes, SLB's, I just realized that I forgot about the insulating factor of the wheel. I usually freeze all cigars for 7 days, do you think this is long enough to kill the little buggers? The freezer is an upright freezer around 3 - 5 degrees fahrenheit.

Originally Posted by bonjing

When freezing boxes, SLB's, I just realized that I forgot about the insulating factor of the wheel. I usually freeze all cigars for 7 days, do you think this is long enough to kill the little buggers? The freezer is an upright freezer around 3 - 5 degrees fahrenheit.

I think that is more than enough. I only freeze mine for 48 hours and that includes 50 Cabs. More is good and not going to hurt anything in my opinion.

This is of course only opinion, you would need a temperature probe to know for sure.

[bonjing]

Thanks Fox ! ! !

[massphatness]

Fox -

Freezer bags.

Luxury or necessity?

Plz advise.

Thanks!

Boxes I use plain ole costco food wrap in multiple layers.

I use freezer bags for singles.

Not using anything would cause a lot of moisture loss I would think, maybe not in that short of a time but I certainly wouldn't want to expose my sticks to more moisture loss than necessary.

[massphatness]

Follow up question -- sometimes I get singles in 5-finger bags. Good enough for freezing or should I through the whole thing in a freezer bag?

If they are the ones from Wayners GB then you are good, they are a good thick poly.

In all you are probably ok but some of the 5 fingers I have had over time where pretty porous.

Heavy duty Freezer bags, and just keep it on the side and re-use it.. That's what I do, and NOTHING that comes in don't see Freezer time period!... It's the only way new arrivals see my humidor..

I have another question.

Lets say someone ordered some cigars and forgot about them coming and went on vacation. They come back home only to find that their cigars were in the mail box for a week in 90 deg heat.

Will this trigger beetles even though the cigars were frozen before all this happened?

Thanks to anyone that can help.