Mikes Cigars loses Oliva.

Don't know about the rest of ya'll but my bank account is getting smaller and my tobacco money is miniscule. If I can get better prices by ordering online, that's what I do. I enjoy a herf now and again but I'll be damned if I will hang out in a place that requires me to pay a membership so that I can pay double the price for a smoke.
My front porch does just fine and the chairs already have my butt groove.
My local B&Ms are pretty high in regards to price. One won't carry Padrons or Fuentes so they're out. Another has some very annoying staff. The final one has a very limited selection, cigars and pipe tobacco, and are pricey. So what's the draw?

Originally Posted by Commander Quan

Any cigar shop that was in operation before the ban is grandfathered in as long as 80% if revenue is tobacco related. Post ban any shop that is in a free standing building can be smoked in, but not one that is in a strip mall or has adjoining businesses. The laws definition of a "private club" is a place where there are no employees. So this wouldn't fly in a cigar store.

I believe your right, but I was at a newer shop the other day in a strip shopping center, (I know they were not there before the ban) and they were smoking in there

I did buy a cigar from them because it was a nice shop and the lady actually made me laugh a few times. She said fire it up and let me know what you think. I said you sure you can be smoking in here and she replied smoke away.

So I did

Chas

[SeanGAR]

So let me get this straight.

Olivia thinks Mike's sells their cigars to customers too cheaply? So where is the problem? Olivia not know we're in a recession? Like a lot of people my raise this year is a big fat zero, but I'm not complaining, at least I have a job. Real estate taxes are up. Food prices are up. Beer is up. Gas is up. Health insurance cost up, benefits down ... and on and on.

And Olivia pulls somebody's account because I can get their cigars cheaper at that vendor? Most of the V prices there are MSRP minus 10%. I ask again, where is the problem? There is no competition whatsoever between my local B&M and Mike's. I buy singles and odd items at my B&M because I like to support them. If I buy a box online, I price shop and get it the cheapest place that has what I want in stock.

All Olivia is doing is making people pay more for cigars. Good job *ss****s.

I don't find Mike to be very competitive these days....I don't buy his sticks as CI/Famous/Atlantic all offer better prices pretty consistently. And it seems his deals consist of a free five pack or free ashtray or lighter....and/or unappealing cigars.

[RevSmoke]

For me to find a B&M in which I can smoke, I must drive an hour. Usually, when I go to them, I am piggy-backing a stop there onto my hospital visits. I'd love to sit down for a smoke, but I usually stop in - browse a bit - pick up a couple sticks and if I am lucky, spend a few minutes in conversation.

Locally, the only places tha have cigars are Book World stores, not the happenin' place for grand selection, and smoking is verbotten.

I must say, I miss the B&Ms I had in Connecticut. There were a few nearby where I'd come and melt into a chair and enjoy a nice stick.

Personally, I wish my disposable income were greater so I could support them better when I get there.

So, for me, most of my purchases are internet based.

[Volusianator]

Originally Posted by RevSmoke

So, for me, most of my purchases are internet based.

However I'm glad they weren't on Tuesday!

[rrplasencia]

I buy from both internet and b&m. Have a good relationship with b&m, they treat me very well. They'll sell me an entire box of opus at msrp. The owner has told me if i see a good price on the web to let him know, he'll see if he can match or come close. If they can come close i'd rather give them the business. If he can't he'll tell me it's a hell of a deal and to grab it. It's a couple blocks from work and a nice refuge at times. They know what i like, they know not to waste my time with crap. They in return support my restaurant when they can.

[Silound]

Originally Posted by rrplasencia

I buy from both internet and b&m. Have a good relationship with b&m, they treat me very well. They'll sell me an entire box of opus at msrp. The owner has told me if i see a good price on the web to let him know, he'll see if he can match or come close. If they can come close i'd rather give them the business. If he can't he'll tell me it's a hell of a deal and to grab it. It's a couple blocks from work and a nice refuge at times. They know what i like, they know not to waste my time with crap. They in return support my restaurant when they can.

That's exactly what I strive for where I work. Making sure people feel like I'm going the mile for them, because it brings back business to me. Regular return business is how B&M's stay alive, it's an absolute must have.

[Volusianator]

Originally Posted by rrplasencia

I buy from both internet and b&m. Have a good relationship with b&m, they treat me very well. They'll sell me an entire box of opus at msrp. The owner has told me if i see a good price on the web to let him know, he'll see if he can match or come close. If they can come close i'd rather give them the business. If he can't he'll tell me it's a hell of a deal and to grab it. It's a couple blocks from work and a nice refuge at times. They know what i like, they know not to waste my time with crap. They in return support my restaurant when they can.

And he sells boxes of Opus at MSRP, you GOTTA love that shop!

[Volt]

Originally Posted by MarkinCA

Solid post Michael

I made sense... Now your scaring me..... Thanks.

[Volt]

We have a lot of cigar makers, shop owners, cigar reps here at CA. I would hope they take some of the comments in this thread and others and pass it on to other peeps in the industry. Maybe BI (before Internet) there was a way of life and BR (before resession) there was a lot more money, but things have changed.

I try to smoke 3 - 7 cigars a week, depends on my schedule. Even before the pay cut I took 2 weeks ago (I am very thankful to have my job) paying a cover charge to burn one would not happen. Unless they are looking for the really rich, Average Joe doesn't have it. Where I will spend the $5 on a cigar possibly or a nick nack, I'm sitting on the porch before a cover charge.

Let me smoke what I bring, not some 70% or greater soggy lump of tobacco forced sale to smoke there. Even as a fairly noob person I keep my sticks better than people who have been in the biz for years. I know not to mooch, no sweat to the shop, some of your stock is leaving if I smoke there.

I understand taxes, insurance, rent, etc. But the prices have got to be somewhere close to the compitition. Get real or get gone because even the rich types are starting to pinch pennies, well they prolly pinch quarters.

As I noted earlier, I'm not all that for a B&M but not really against them in principle either. Offer me someting for the extra $$$ you need/want to charge, knowledge, good attitude, a better price, a reasonable place to smoke , wings and babes, etc. I guess if folks see value in the B&Ms I would like them to survive, but as of today they don't offer any value to me. Best 2 places I smoke are the American Legion (can't beat the prices there and everyone knows my name) and out in town Bailey's. Sort of an up scale pub type place. Decent food, the air in the resturant is 100% filtered 8 times an hour, pool tables, some video games, only downside is the staff service sucks, but no place is perfect. They even sell a few cigars in a wall humi if you need an extra. A wee bit high but not really gouging. Well, there is one other place but JK and I hit up, a biker dive, but most would not care to visit

My .02 and not even worth all that much now days.

[opus]

Originally Posted by SeanGAR

So let me get this straight.

Olivia thinks Mike's sells their cigars to customers too cheaply? So where is the problem? Olivia not know we're in a recession? Like a lot of people my raise this year is a big fat zero, but I'm not complaining, at least I have a job. Real estate taxes are up. Food prices are up. Beer is up. Gas is up. Health insurance cost up, benefits down ... and on and on.

And Olivia pulls somebody's account because I can get their cigars cheaper at that vendor? Most of the V prices there are MSRP minus 10%. I ask again, where is the problem? There is no competition whatsoever between my local B&M and Mike's. I buy singles and odd items at my B&M because I like to support them. If I buy a box online, I price shop and get it the cheapest place that has what I want in stock.

All Olivia is doing is making people pay more for cigars. Good job *ss****s.

I couldn't say it any better than this Sean. Definitely a place for both online and B&M cigars. +

As far as Bose speakers, Rolex, etc, I am not a fan of price fixing. Let a product stand on it's quality and the selling company's service.

[BengalMan]

Guys, your not understanding the fact of state OTP. This is the reason that there is a huge price difference. Take Michigan for example. The state OTP is 32% (there are PLENTY of states that it's higher, much higher). So if a shop buys a box for $100, they immediately at the end of the month, are into the state for $32. So if they keystone the box to $200 (which would be msrp of said box), add the tax, the box is $232 per box. It's impossible for a retailer to go in the hole $32, then take another 10% off MSRP to compete with a major online retailer. Online retailers are for the most part in non-tax states like FL. If they are in a taxed state, they can get around paying the tax if they ship the box out of state, which most of them do. The price difference you see from online shops to local B&M's is due to your home state's legislature, plain and simple. Sure there may be a gouger here and there, but the main price difference is from the state's OTP.

And Sean, please don't just key Oliva as the bad guy, you'd be surprised how many of your favorite cigar manufacturers do the exact same thing in price protecting their brand. I have yet to have a shop in my territory complain to me, or any other rep I know that work for other manufacturers that this is done. Infact, it's just the opposite. Retailers are happy that measures like this are taken by manufactuers to help keep the business coming in.

I will say this though, if you had to pay your states tax on purchases that you bought online and had shipped to you, I think a lot of thoughts may change. It's already happening in small doses, and is a reality in the future. State's see that they're losing tax dollars due to online sales and there is a union of states that have begun getting records and collecting said taxes.

Listen, like I said, I don't know the details of the Mike's situation and it's not my place to comment on it. In the end, some of you are going to support the online shops exclusively, and that's your decision. Some are going to support local B&M's where they see fit and that's their choice. Some may do both, by all means, do what you like. I'm not telling people to go into a place they don't like, or a place where they are treated inferior, or anything of the sort. All I'm saying is if your local B&M is a nice guy, sells a quality product, and provides a service that applies to you, throw him a bone every once in a while. If not, it's your money, and if your going to shop online, there's nothing I can say to stop you.

I'm really busy for the next few days so I doubt I'll be able to check the thread. In the end, I really do acknowledge everyone's opinion's on here and will definitely make note of them, both positive and negative, and bring attention to it to the powers above me so that your opinions are heard. The cigar message boards are a great way for the manufacturers and end users to stay in a two way communication.

Seangar

Oliva pulled mikes account because he violated his contract. You can't reformat the reason to make it sound stupid to try to make your case. Well I guess you can, because you did. But you now what I mean.

Oliva is making a business decision. First you have to say to yourself. Ok they are not morons. They run a multi-million dollar company. They must have good reasons to have these clauses in their contracts with sellers. I won't repeat them all here but they are listed in the post. Value of cigar. Local shops etc. Etc.

[SeanGAR]

Originally Posted by Legend

Seangar

Oliva pulled mikes account because he violated his contract.

I haven't read Mike's contract with Olivia .... have you?

You can't reformat the reason to make it sound stupid to try to make your case. Well I guess you can, because you did. But you now what I mean.

Sound stupid? This is about Olivia wanting price fixing and non-competitive selling of their cigars. I disagree with this completely.

Oliva is making a business decision. First you have to say to yourself. Ok they are not morons. They run a multi-million dollar company.

I would absolutely NOT say that. I have not met the Olivias to say one way or the other. However, idiotic business decisions are made all over this country on a daily basis. Can you say "New Coke?".

They must have good reasons to have these clauses in their contracts with sellers. I won't repeat them all here but they are listed in the post. Value of cigar. Local shops etc. Etc.

Some competitor squealed on Mike's and complained that they were undercutting their price. I prefer capitalism and competition in the marketplace, not communistic pricing practices. I won't buy more Olivias as a result of this, but I doubt that will make a dime's difference in their bottom line. I really don't care, it is the principle.

[renton20]

Take this with a grain of salt as I am not a business major and know very little if anything about the legality of price fixing, and or what would qualify as price fixing.

I only have two words to say about this, Rocky Patel. He not only let the competition flourish, he encouraged it. Now most people here I think will agree that his cigars have suffered in quality over the years and many, including myself, will agree that at least on the vintage line he has tweaked his blends for the worse. Now anyone who knows anything about internet sales knows that you can find OWR for about half of MSRP or less online. So tell me, why would you pay anything close to MSRP at a B&M for the same cigar? A few dollars is one thing but I personally would feel like I was throwing my money down the toilet if I did this. Even if I did really have a craving for one, enough so to pay over MSRP including taxes, I would never buy more than one. This seems to have drastically hurt his business long term. I know that personally I only have a few of his blends that I still enjoy and even then I would never pay MSRP for them.

If closing out this account and trying to get retailers to sell close to MSRP will keep oliva producing high quality delicious cigars than I feel like I can't complain too much. On top of that, Oliva cigars are well known and well liked because they are consistently good and very reasonably priced. As far as price fixing goes, they are trying to protect their business model long term. May not be something that I would necessarily do but IMHO they do have the right to do what they please with their company.

p.s. thanks for reading my probably unnecessarily long post

[croatan]

Originally Posted by rack04

Two words. MONSTER CABLE.

Exactly!

Thank god for monoprice.com

[Texan in Mexico]

Spot on Ian, it is very difficult for most of us to remove the emotional aspect of this argument however your point is the key to all of this.

Ladies and gentlemen this is whatis at the core of the risk the local B&Ms face these days.

Try running a business with the associated overhead and pay 20 to 40% in taxes vs the guy who doesn't incur the same fixed costs and is immune to the taxes, this is not the invisible hand of economics at work here, this is the 800 lb gorilla sitting in the living room...

Originally Posted by BengalMan

Guys, your not understanding the fact of state OTP. This is the reason that there is a huge price difference. Take Michigan for example. The state OTP is 32% (there are PLENTY of states that it's higher, much higher). So if a shop buys a box for $100, they immediately at the end of the month, are into the state for $32. So if they keystone the box to $200 (which would be msrp of said box), add the tax, the box is $232 per box. It's impossible for a retailer to go in the hole $32, then take another 10% off MSRP to compete with a major online retailer. Online retailers are for the most part in non-tax states like FL. If they are in a taxed state, they can get around paying the tax if they ship the box out of state, which most of them do. The price difference you see from online shops to local B&M's is due to your home state's legislature, plain and simple. Sure there may be a gouger here and there, but the main price difference is from the state's OTP.

And Sean, please don't just key Oliva as the bad guy, you'd be surprised how many of your favorite cigar manufacturers do the exact same thing in price protecting their brand. I have yet to have a shop in my territory complain to me, or any other rep I know that work for other manufacturers that this is done. Infact, it's just the opposite. Retailers are happy that measures like this are taken by manufactuers to help keep the business coming in.

I will say this though, if you had to pay your states tax on purchases that you bought online and had shipped to you, I think a lot of thoughts may change. It's already happening in small doses, and is a reality in the future. State's see that they're losing tax dollars due to online sales and there is a union of states that have begun getting records and collecting said taxes.

Listen, like I said, I don't know the details of the Mike's situation and it's not my place to comment on it. In the end, some of you are going to support the online shops exclusively, and that's your decision. Some are going to support local B&M's where they see fit and that's their choice. Some may do both, by all means, do what you like. I'm not telling people to go into a place they don't like, or a place where they are treated inferior, or anything of the sort. All I'm saying is if your local B&M is a nice guy, sells a quality product, and provides a service that applies to you, throw him a bone every once in a while. If not, it's your money, and if your going to shop online, there's nothing I can say to stop you.

I'm really busy for the next few days so I doubt I'll be able to check the thread. In the end, I really do acknowledge everyone's opinion's on here and will definitely make note of them, both positive and negative, and bring attention to it to the powers above me so that your opinions are heard. The cigar message boards are a great way for the manufacturers and end users to stay in a two way communication.

[AD720]

I can also say that I will usually go for an Internet sale over my local B&M's.

Out of the ones that are conveniently local to me I have these style shops:

A) The shop with the killer selection but condescending staff. (I was so mistreated recently by one that I refuse to support them even though they have all the cool high-end stuff, I'll smoke black and milds before I patronize them.)

B) The little Mom and Pop with the nice staff but poor selection and/or poor storage conditions.

C) The hole in the wall "Tobacco Emporium" that does more business in rolling papers and Camels than premium cigars.

None of them offer me any extra value for the extra money spent. None have any "lounge" to speak of (one has a "member's area" ).

There are some that are on the other side of the city or in the burbs that are nice, one has an excellent lounge area and one has a really great coffee bar. Another that I used to frequent and spend quite a bit of cash in closed up. And if I am in the area I will swing in and always buy at least one stick. But they are just too far away to frequent.

[Texan in Mexico]

I would absolutely NOT say that. I have not met the Olivias to say one way or the other. However, idiotic business decisions are made all over this country on a daily basis. Can you say "New Coke?".

I don't mean to get off topic but a big part of what I do is market research, campaigns and the New Coke idea is generally recognized as one of the greatest marketing coups of all time. Easily one of the Top 10.