Mikes Cigars loses Oliva.

[mosesbotbol]

I think it was in poor taste to mention Mike's losing Olivia's cigars. Whose agenda is this serving? Like even mentioning this on a forum with a dollar amount attached to it was done in spite.

More than one way to see this. Perhaps if the cigars were better promoted by the manufacturer, discounting like they did would not be necessary? Perhaps Mike's was already planning on dumping Olivia's and Olivia's want to protect their image?

Don't know all the details, but this strikes me as a "vindictive press release".

[neoflex]

I used to frequent and support my local B&Ms back in NY but since moving I have been unable to find a B&M that I feel comfortable with or happy enough with to call home. Problem I have been having is I either get to choose from Great selection but snotty stuck up staff or great staff but a Mehh selection of smokes most of which are not part of my rotation and than their is the other where their humidor conditions are amazingly bad for the name backing of the place but they too have mostly an unwelcoming staff. So now I find myself buying more from online retailers but do miss being able to head down to my local and buy a handful of smokes and get lost there for 4-6 hours. I have always known I can get the same smokes online for much cheaper but when I had a great local I never did mind paying $2-$4 more per stick because in my mind it was worth it.

[Raralith]

Disreguarding B&M's, they were warned twice not to do it, and finally got dropped the third time. I'm sure Mike's had a reason too on why they dropped it.

I find it kind of comical that Oliva is there to protect his brand because Oliva is known for great cigars at low prices. I doubt that the brand would be in such high quantity that he'll either run out of have to lower his reject standards. And the MSRP is not Oliva's margin, his is probably set based on volume so whether the distributor makes $0.01 or $10.00 a stick, Oliva's already got his money.

[Volt]

You need to read my posts a bit more carefully, out of my choices only one really has a smoking lounge and the attitude there is not something I want to put up with to smoke there. I like a bourbon with my sticks and as most of my friends don't smoke cigars.... you see where I am going. As I stated, a B&M im most senses does not serve me (YMMV) any real service other than a spur of the moment buy... Even then not much due to pricing.

Originally Posted by Volusianator

Remember that the next time you want to go to a lounge with a bunch of buddies, or by yourself to have a smoke and the shop is out of business because nobody saw the "value" in spending more at a B&M. I buy my fair share of cigars online, just like everyone else, but I also buy boxes from my local from time to time to do my part to help keep his doors open. I value his business, I value his leather chairs, I value his smoke eaters, I value the drinks I can get there, I value his service.

[Volusianator]

Originally Posted by Volt

You need to read my posts a bit more carefully, out of my choices only one really has a smoking lounge and the attitude there is not something I want to put up with to smoke there. As I stated, a B&M im most senses does not serve me (YMMV) any real service other than a spur of the moment buy... Even then not much due to pricing.

I agree that I only read your one reply regarding the B&M's, however you said there's no value in supporting a Brick & Mortar. If you would've said there's no value in supporting "your local" B&M, then I would possibly understand if you have a bad shop. But to make a blanket statement as you did, I can't agree with that.

[Volusianator]

In addition, I've never bought a box of cigars online and met a new friend in the process. I've bought several boxes, singles and samplers and have met many new friends in that process at my local shop and shops that are not local, but I've stopped in on a whim. I know that supporting my local does that community well too. Next time you're on vacation and forget your cigars, see how fast an internet supplier can get your relaxation to you.

[Bruce]

Originally Posted by neoflex

I can understand why they would do this but my problem is that the manufacturers are more likely to pull an account due to the prices being to low but more often than not they will turn a blind eye to a vendor who is jacking the prices of their smokes. Perfect example is how many vendors get away with jacking the prices of Opus and Anejos but Fuente supposedly has a strict rule on this but day after day year after year we see it. Again just my .02.

Yes!
And Mikes was one of the biggest gougers when it came to Opus during the cigar boom.

[Yazzie]

Originally Posted by Volt

You need to read my posts a bit more carefully, out of my choices only one really has a smoking lounge and the attitude there is not something I want to put up with to smoke there. I like a bourbon with my sticks and as most of my friends don't smoke cigars.... you see where I am going. As I stated, a B&M im most senses does not serve me (YMMV) any real service other than a spur of the moment buy... Even then not much due to pricing.

[yourchoice]

Kind of off subject but on topic...

My local B&M has an area to smoke, but you have to be a member and pay a significant membership fee to sit and smoke there. The balance of their floor plan consists of their humidor (quite nice), accessory displays and a cash register. Smoking there would generally be uncomfortable. Do I still patronize them? Yes. Do I feel guilty about buying on-line? No. Would I buy more (a higher percentage of my purchases) if they had a chair to sit in and a TV to catch a little bit of a game? You bet!

What's my point? I'm not sure. I guess every B&M is different and "deserves" patronage based on their customer service and amenities. When I was in Orlando and visited Corona cigar, I bought their cigars, drank their beer and enjoyed myself immensely. If all B&M's were like that I think we'd all feel more obligation to buy more from them.

[Commander Quan]

Perhaps a little off topic but...

Right now most of the shops that I visit where I live, in Ohio are changing the way they do business. I am seeing the opening of "private lounges" in shops that before the smoking ban passed had an area to smoke that was available for free. The membership fees vary but most have a monthly fee and a daily fee. The daily fee ranges from $5-$10. I have quit smoking there because of this extra expense and since I am not there as often I spend about 1/4 of the money that I used to on their cigars.

So what are my options? I either drive to the shop and pay $1-$2 or possibly more per cigar to support a local business that in my mind is charging people for a service that they offered for free 2 years ago
or
buy online and get an equal product for less?

I guess my loyalty to my local shops went away when they decide to try to make a quick buck off their regulars instead of using the smoking ban as an opportunity to welcome smokers and sell more product

[Yazzie]

Originally Posted by Commander Quan

Perhaps a little off topic but...

Right now most of the shops that I visit where I live, in Ohio are changing the way they do business. I am seeing the opening of "private lounges" in shops that before the smoking ban passed had an area to smoke that was available for free. The membership fees vary but most have a monthly fee and a daily fee. The daily fee ranges from $5-$10. I have quit smoking there because of this extra expense and since I am not there as often I spend about 1/4 of the money that I used to on their cigars.

So what are my options? I either drive to the shop and pay $1-$2 or possibly more per cigar to support a local business that in my mind is charging people for a service that they offered for free 2 years ago
or
buy online and get an equal product for less?

I guess my loyalty to my local shops went away when they decide to try to make a quick buck off their regulars instead of using the smoking ban as an opportunity to welcome smokers and sell more product

Agreed, it's a personal decision and you should feel no obligation whatsoever to support a B&M, just as those that frequent B&M's feel no obligation to support or buy from an internet retailer....

[Boomer]

I sell things manufactured by a name brand company. These items sell for anywhere from $35k to $250k. Although it is the leading brand in the industry, the marketplace dictates what that product will sell for based on quality, efficiency, aftermarket support and the reputation of the dealer. There are no artificial ways to make the consumer pay more (which this is all about) in my industry nor do I believe that there should be. The market should always dictate the price.

[MarkinAZ]

Originally Posted by Volt

I know it's a beat to death subject, but I can't say I find a ton of value as some do in a B&M. The 3 closest "cigar" stores are just that. Some accessories, moderate to over priced sticks, and none of the amenities that others seem to enjoy. In fairness, one does have a small coffee bar, but that has no appeal to me.

I do think that a person is as only good as their word and as such needs to stick by what they say they will do. Old fashioned maybe, but that's me. So Oliva pulling the contract, I guess good on them if they can stand teh loss of revenue. I tend to agree with Silound, business better be damn good to make up for it.

I personally shop where I get best bang for the buck. Might be at a B&M, Internet, a trade on CA, etc. Cigars are a hobby and as such cannot affect the household living, so it gets done with sharp buying as my other hobbies do. A B&M does not provide me any other benefit over any other source except the other sources typically have less attitude.

I have heard the argument about protecting the "brand" name with high prices and as of today still do not understand how pricing affects the brand name. Maybe one of you economics type can help a BOTL out adn explain it. I do not and have never found where just because an item was high priced it therefore had quality. Some items do cost more due to high quality, but they do not have to go hand in hand. I have a very small Mexican restaurant by my house, all the food is "home made", none of the frozen beans, etc. Amazing stuff. A great dinner for $6 - $7 is common. Beats the hell out of the chain store with the name and canned/frozen food at 30% more a plate.

Kind of rambled here a bit (need more coffee), but the bottom line for me is I don't get pricing and prolly never will regardless as to where it is sold from.

Solid post Michael

[neoflex]

Originally Posted by Commander Quan

Perhaps a little off topic but...

Right now most of the shops that I visit where I live, in Ohio are changing the way they do business. I am seeing the opening of "private lounges" in shops that before the smoking ban passed had an area to smoke that was available for free. The membership fees vary but most have a monthly fee and a daily fee. The daily fee ranges from $5-$10. I have quit smoking there because of this extra expense and since I am not there as often I spend about 1/4 of the money that I used to on their cigars.

So what are my options? I either drive to the shop and pay $1-$2 or possibly more per cigar to support a local business that in my mind is charging people for a service that they offered for free 2 years ago
or
buy online and get an equal product for less?

I guess my loyalty to my local shops went away when they decide to try to make a quick buck off their regulars instead of using the smoking ban as an opportunity to welcome smokers and sell more product

I can understand where you are coming from but at the same time you telling us of this trend may be a way for the B&Ms to make ends meet when smoking bans are put in place. Having a lounge may be the loop hole they need to keep it so their patrons can still smoke there or even may be a way to supplement lost revenue from the bans which may have caused business to drop. Most lounges but not all that I know of that are membership based will normally allow you to sit and enjoy your smokes there for free if you make purchases. I know of one that keeps their lounge behind closed doors and only allow paying members to enter. I can see your frustration since you used to be able to smoke there for free but can see both sides of the coin when you introduce public smoking bans especially if they are offering amenities that may not have been available prior to making it a full fledged lounge.

Originally Posted by Boomer

I sell things manufactured by a name brand company. These items sell for anywhere from $35k to $250k. Although it is the leading brand in the industry, the marketplace dictates what that product will sell for based on quality, efficiency, aftermarket support and the reputation of the dealer. There are no artificial ways to make the consumer pay more (which this is all about) in my industry nor do I believe that there should be. The market should always dictate the price.

I knew if I kept reading I might find an opinion I shared

To me its no different than the wally world argument putting the mom and pops out of business. In the 3 county area I live there have been dozens of wally worlds built. Lots of small shops went out of business. MANY survived and the winner was the consumer. The ones who survived, changed their business model, lowered prices or offered unique services. Gave me a reason to shop there, and I continue to support those who deserve my business. I the consumer still have the right to choose where to spend my money. The cigar industry should be no different. As mentioned earlier. the Ohio smoking ban provided a golden opportunity for shops to change their philosophy, create lounges, install a few plasma tvs, heck just put in a vending machine and a few chairs. A few did and they are often full of chatty old fellas telling war stories and moaning about the wife. The others, raised their prices since traffic went down, and they spend the day dusting the shelf's and throwing out the moldy cigars.

Chas

[Silound]

Originally Posted by Commander Quan

Perhaps a little off topic but...

Right now most of the shops that I visit where I live, in Ohio are changing the way they do business. I am seeing the opening of "private lounges" in shops that before the smoking ban passed had an area to smoke that was available for free. The membership fees vary but most have a monthly fee and a daily fee. The daily fee ranges from $5-$10. I have quit smoking there because of this extra expense and since I am not there as often I spend about 1/4 of the money that I used to on their cigars.

So what are my options? I either drive to the shop and pay $1-$2 or possibly more per cigar to support a local business that in my mind is charging people for a service that they offered for free 2 years ago
or
buy online and get an equal product for less?

I guess my loyalty to my local shops went away when they decide to try to make a quick buck off their regulars instead of using the smoking ban as an opportunity to welcome smokers and sell more product

I'm a little rusty, but last I checked the Ohio smoking ban only exempts some tobacco shops, not all, correct?

If the ban affects the shops you frequent, I see the fee as a way to allow smoking to continue for the convenience of the patrons. If it doesn't affect the shops, then what else do they offer besides a "private" lounge for you to smoke in? There has to be something that few dollars is being invested into.

Just curious.

[Commander Quan]

Neoflex, perhaps they do need this extra income to make ends meat BUT, what if it had gone the other way. If they had kept the lounge open and advertised as a place that you can sit a smoke I think more people would be inclined to go there and smoke since we can't in bars, bowling allies, etc. and they would be buying more product at the same time. I know I am not alone in reducing my spending since implementing the "membership fee".

If I was allowed to enter with a minimum purchase perhaps I wouldn't be so torqued about the whole thing, but if you want to stay and smoke you pay the fee weather you buy a single or a box.

[Yazzie]

Originally Posted by ChasDen

I knew if I kept reading I might find an opinion I shared

To me its no different than the wally world argument putting the mom and pops out of business. In the 3 county area I live there have been dozens of wally worlds built. Lots of small shops went out of business. MANY survived and the winner was the consumer. The ones who survived, changed their business model, lowered prices or offered unique services. Gave me a reason to shop there, and I continue to support those who deserve my business. I the consumer still have the right to choose where to spend my money. The cigar industry should be no different. As mentioned earlier. the Ohio smoking ban provided a golden opportunity for shops to change their philosophy, create lounges, install a few plasma tvs, heck just put in a vending machine and a few chairs. A few did and they are often full of chatty old fellas telling war stories and moaning about the wife. The others, raised their prices since traffic went down, and they spend the day dusting the shelf's and throwing out the moldy cigars.

Chas

Great post Chas.... We as cigar Hobbyists are free to buy where we want at the prices we want and only we truly deem what value really is without any obligation to support an establishment just for the sake of supporting it.

[Commander Quan]

Originally Posted by Silound

I'm a little rusty, but last I checked the Ohio smoking ban only exempts some tobacco shops, not all, correct?

If the ban affects the shops you frequent, I see the fee as a way to allow smoking to continue for the convenience of the patrons. If it doesn't affect the shops, then what else do they offer besides a "private" lounge for you to smoke in? There has to be something that few dollars is being invested into.

Just curious.

Any cigar shop that was in operation before the ban is grandfathered in as long as 80% if revenue is tobacco related. Post ban any shop that is in a free standing building can be smoked in, but not one that is in a strip mall or has adjoining businesses. The laws definition of a "private club" is a place where there are no employees. So this wouldn't fly in a cigar store.

[neoflex]

Originally Posted by Commander Quan

Neoflex, perhaps they do need this extra income to make ends meat BUT, what if it had gone the other way. If they had kept the lounge open and advertised as a place that you can sit a smoke I think more people would be inclined to go there and smoke since we can't in bars, bowling allies, etc. and they would be buying more product at the same time. I know I am not alone in reducing my spending since implementing the "membership fee".

If I was allowed to enter with a minimum purchase perhaps I wouldn't be so torqued about the whole thing, but if you want to stay and smoke you pay the fee weather you buy a single or a box.

Not saying it is right just that I can see both sides. I've always wanted to open my own B&M/Lounge but in reality that is highly unlikely unless I win Powerball. If I did I would do as I described above. Have a members only type lounge but would have a very low daily fee probrably in the range of $5 but if you stopped in and bought $15-$20+ worth of smokes would allow you to come in and join at no additional cost to you. I am at least hoping that these places added some amenities. If they kept things as is and just imposed a membership fee than that is just wrong IMHO. If they added a separate section with private storage lockers, Flat screen TVs, upgraded seating etc etc than that would be at least be understandable. If you were a regular and they just shunned you for not joining than that too is just wrong.