Tom Brady

[shilala]

I gave Tom his due stroke. He's awesome.
I'd probably pick like this:
Rodgers
Brady/Manning (toss-up for 2nd)
Roethlisberger/Brees (toss-up for 3rd)

I added a lot of factors. If I were to list them based on just this year, it'd be:
Rodgers
Brady
Manning
Roethlisberger
Brees
...and Brees could easily be out of this year's equation all together.

If Brady isn't coming up on anyone's "Top 5 QB's currently playing in the NFL" list, their hate is far stronger than their common sense, Mose.

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by shilala

If Brady isn't coming up on anyone's "Top 5 QB's currently playing in the NFL" list, their hate is far stronger than their common sense, Mose.

Exactly what I am inferring. He should be Top 3, I was being generous on Top 5.

[Bruins Fan]

Originally Posted by shilala

I gave Tom his due stroke. He's awesome.
I'd probably pick like this:
Rodgers
Brady/Manning (toss-up for 2nd)
Roethlisberger/Brees (toss-up for 3rd)

I added a lot of factors. If I were to list them based on just this year, it'd be:
Rodgers
Brady
Manning
Roethlisberger
Brees
...and Brees could easily be out of this year's equation all together.

If Brady isn't coming up on anyone's "Top 5 QB's currently playing in the NFL" list, their hate is far stronger than their common sense, Mose.

Your kidding? When Brady is finished he will be the greatest of all time, actuality he already is.
The Brady.. Manning compassion ended years ago, Payton is not even in the conversation any more.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Bruins Fan

Your kidding? When Brady is finished he will be the greatest of all time, actuality he already is.
The Brady.. Manning compassion ended years ago, Payton is not even in the conversation any more.

Your argument depends on 2 things, at least.
1.) If you've ever heard of Joe Montana.
2.) Where do we draw a line?

The game today as compared to when Montana played barely compares, yet Joe still wins despite all Tom's accomplishments.
Brady has to continue to stack rings and stats to cross over this "the game is easier for qb's now".
I don't think it's even mathematically possible, but I'm not looking at numbers and Tom has a lot of years left in him.

He's got Aaron Rodgers right on his heels.
Aaron has a complete mastery of every single skill a QB needs, has quietly piled up a huge number of NFL records, and has lots of years to chase down Brady's numbers.

Brady is not the greatest QB of all-time. Not yet. He's not even in that running because his career isn't over and he's no eclipsed a number of old boys.
He IS at or near the pinnacle of a very short list of QB's from this generation.
Also a list where he hasn't "won" anything yet because his competition have not finished their careers.


If I had to pick an "all-time" from my lifetime, right now it'd be Montana, Elway, Brady, Farve, Manning. I'd probably even move Brady to #2.
I think that'll all get rewritten in the next 20 years.
It's a freakin awesome time to watch offense.

[icehog3]

If you were as old as I am, you could throw Johnny Unitas into that mix.

[shilala]

I don't remember him at all, Admiral. But he should be in any "all-time" conversation.
Right around #2, I understand.

[14holestogie]

How about Bart Starr? 5 championships in a 7 year period should get him at least a top 10 nod. And his receivers were usually hungover.

[shilala]

Starr doesn't even get talk anymore, Tim. He always has up till the last 10 or 15 years.
Maybe it's because 3 of those championships were outside the Super Bowl era.
I honestly don't know. It's ridiculous.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by 14holestogie

How about Bart Starr? 5 championships in a 7 year period should get him at least a top 10 nod. And his receivers were usually hungover.

Starr's receivers were usually hungover?? Johnny Unitas was usually drunk!!

[AdamJoshua]

Bart Starr's problem is he isn't on Twitter and all over TMZ, he needs to get some people on that.

[AdamJoshua]

BOSTON -- Isaiah Thomas had 27 points and seven assists, and the Boston Celtics beat the Philadelphia 76ers 112-95 on Wednesday night in the season opener for each team.

So wait, did he settle the sexual harassment suit in NY, amazing that he flopped at running a team and now in his twilight years he's back in the league and putting up 27/7. Very nice

[The Poet]

You're thinking of Isiah Thomas, not Isaish Thomas. How can you possibly confuse them?

When Dallas drafted Bob Hayes in 1964, the game of football began to change from a "horizontal" to a "vertical" contest. Thus comparing QBs like Johnny U and Bart Starr to later ones is tricky, as the skill sets differ.

[icehog3]

That, and the earlier ones were badass m***********s.

[Bruins Fan]

Not to disparage any of the great players..but it was a different game before unrestricted free agency that started in 1992.

Teams could be built and players had no movement, QB's might throw the ball 20 times a game?

Just look at the old steeler teams, great defense big back to ground and pound, and a couple great receivers same with the 49'ers and cowboys.

Today you have a salary cap, so teams have to do their homework building a team. The Pats got that covered

[AdamJoshua]

Originally Posted by icehog3

That, and the earlier ones were badass m***********s.

You mean when they go hit the NFL didn't scramble to change the rules, or when they should get driven into the ground by 3 guys long after the ball was released and no one cried and begged with the refs?

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by AdamJoshua

You mean when they go hit the NFL didn't scramble to change the rules, or when they should get driven into the ground by 3 guys long after the ball was released and no one cried and begged with the refs?

Yeah, but the Pats woulda had that covered.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Bruins Fan

Today you have a salary cap, so teams have to do their homework building a team. The Pats got that covered

That's all Bill Belichick. He's got full autonomy and he has for years and years.
He's presided over Tom Brady's entire reign as QB, made the choice to jettison Bledsoe, "suffered" a 9-7 reason because of it, etc.

Don't think for a minute that Brady would have prospered so greatly were he not under Belichick.
Last year (maybe it was 2013?), for example.
The Pats sucked. Brady took tantrums and looked like an idiot through the first 4 weeks until Belichick pulled some receivers out of his ass.
Without stellar receivers, carefully practiced timing, and everything in a perfect vacuum, Brady collapsed.
Then he took tantrums, screamed at his teammates, and acted like he was a 13 year old girl.

That is what it is. Jay Cutler and Phillip Rivers have had their 13 year-old girl moments. So have many others.
Point being, he didn't general what he had into a winning position.
He took a fit.
A guy like Peyton Manning, who's been working in FAR less than perfect conditions his entire career has made due. Without tantrums.

All that is a BIG intangible.
Had Brady not had Belichick, he'd be Phillip Rivers. Guaranteed.
Bill Belichick is the brain behind Brady, always has been.
Were Belichick still in Cleveland, the Lombardi's would be stacked up in Berrea.

That only takes away from Brady in those "best ever" conversations.
He's going to see his place at the top of the record books, but his spot isn't going to last, not the way the NFL is headed.
It'll be Arena Football soon and Brady's numbers, and Montana's numbers, and everyone else's numbers will look like sh1t compared to some of the kids who haven't even come up through college yet.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

Exactly what I am inferring. He should be Top 3, I was being generous on Top 5.

Mose, I think he does show up in pretty much every "top 10 all-time" list somewhere between 1 and 3. Any I've seen, anyways.
That's just happened since this last ring, though. That pushed him right up there.

The NFL is doing a"vote by era" thing right now, I wish I could find the link for you. It's wicked cool.

[Weelok]

It's hard for me to fathom a best ever but in this year I wish I had Brady as my fantasy QB in the two leagues I am participating in but alas I do not. I do have Carson Palmer in one so happy with that but Russell Wilson in the other bleh

If I had been smarter I could have drafted Brady as he was on my plan but I started worrying the NFL drama might hurt him. Bleh, silly me

[Porch Dweller]

Originally Posted by shilala

That's all Bill Belichick. He's got full autonomy and he has for years and years.
He's presided over Tom Brady's entire reign as QB, made the choice to jettison Bledsoe, "suffered" a 9-7 reason because of it, etc.

Don't think for a minute that Brady would have prospered so greatly were he not under Belichick.
Last year (maybe it was 2013?), for example.
The Pats sucked. Brady took tantrums and looked like an idiot through the first 4 weeks until Belichick pulled some receivers out of his ass.
Without stellar receivers, carefully practiced timing, and everything in a perfect vacuum, Brady collapsed.
Then he took tantrums, screamed at his teammates, and acted like he was a 13 year old girl.

That is what it is. Jay Cutler and Phillip Rivers have had their 13 year-old girl moments. So have many others.
Point being, he didn't general what he had into a winning position.
He took a fit.
A guy like Peyton Manning, who's been working in FAR less than perfect conditions his entire career has made due. Without tantrums.

All that is a BIG intangible.
Had Brady not had Belichick, he'd be Phillip Rivers. Guaranteed.
Bill Belichick is the brain behind Brady, always has been.
Were Belichick still in Cleveland, the Lombardi's would be stacked up in Berrea.

That only takes away from Brady in those "best ever" conversations.
He's going to see his place at the top of the record books, but his spot isn't going to last, not the way the NFL is headed.
It'll be Arena Football soon and Brady's numbers, and Montana's numbers, and everyone else's numbers will look like sh1t compared to some of the kids who haven't even come up through college yet.

Brady's had a bunch of nobodies as his receivers his entire career, with occasional exceptions of greatness such as Moss (for only three years), Gronk, Troy Brown, and Welker (who has only shined as a receiver with Brady as QB). He's made it work all the time with a revolving door of guys that were cut and signed off the wire and would probably be working at Planet Fitness if they had any other QB than Brady throwing to them.
Heck yeah, he's benefited from having the greatest coach ever; who wouldn't? But to have some of the guys he's had to throw to and still have the success he's had is NOT all on Belichek, not even close.

Your comment about Manning working in FAR less than perfect conditions his entire career is...well...puzzling. Manning benefited from playing most of his entire career in domes (Brady's stat's in domes are better than Mannings, BTW) and had consistent receivers, at least much more consistent than Brady, along with one of the greatest receiving RBs ever, Marshal Faulk. And as far as "tantrums", ANYONE can get frustrated and riled up. Remember, Manning gave us the wonderful Manning Face.

Here's a nice comparison between Brady and Manning. Here's a summary if you don't want to read the whole thing (it is long): Brady is Manning's statistical equal despite playing his entire career outdoors with inferior talent; Brady puts up more points and wins more consistently than any QB in history; Brady typically beats Manning head to head even with inferior teams; and Brady doesn't crap the bed every year in the playoffs.