Acquiring rare Bourbons - Any tips?

[DrDubzz]

somehow a friend of mine got a bottle of 20 yr a couple years back. We drank most of it at our work Christmas party in 2013, it was amazing. I was a bourbon hater until that moment, but I would do terrible things for another bottle

[mk05]

Pappy juice died back in circa 2009. The SW source went dry and what people drank was Buffalo Trace (kind of like Black Maple Hill). But people chase labels, like bands on cigars, and PVW still sell for insane prices, because the market hasn't corrected itself. However, like all things, when people finally wake up and realize, prices will normalize. I've noticed that only sellers and friends of sellers don't like it when truth is told. So arm yourself with some knowledge before venturing.

You should try High West before that juice runs out. I think that is the old Seagram's stuff.

[mosesbotbol]

Bourbon and Scotch are always coming up at auction. Keep mind a bottle of distilled liquor that sits in the bottle for a long time will taste different than a fresh bottled one.

[TheRiddick]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

Bourbon and Scotch are always coming up at auction. Keep mind a bottle of distilled liquor that sits in the bottle for a long time will taste different than a fresh bottled one.

Just curious, what chemical process do you think does that?

[The Poet]

bump

[nutcracker]

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

Just curious, what chemical process do you think does that?

The process is certainly different from wine (which changes relatively quickly)

Two that come to mind:

1.) Oxidation - a certain degree of ullage occurs over time (evaporation etc) - thus when your whiskey level drops much, it is time to finish it off. The change is virtually imperceptible to most people - unless you try new vs opened bottles of scotch one day. The new scotch is just "brighter"

2.) Precipitation. Much like tannins precipitate out in wine, vanillins, ketones, esters and other cogeners (heavy byproducts of distillation) will precipitate to some degree. Although it won't spoil or "die", the whiskey character will change a bit.

Although you can keep whiskey for a long time (and a modest time once open), you shouldn't leave it for your grandchildren. It is not improving. The best date to drink is soon after bottling.

It is also a fallacy that really long barrel ageing will improve whiskey more. There is a point where the vanilla and barrel flavours overwhelm any fruit, and the whiskey is just old and tired. The frighteningly expensive 40 year old scotches are not worth the thousands (IMHO).

Sweet spot for peated Islay is about an 18-25 year old

Come to think of it....

[AdamJoshua]

I just learned about cork taint and the use of saran wrap the other day. Ok not really much to add but why waste knew knowledge!

[vinnyvega]

Here's what I tell my customers. Support one shop. Make all your big purchases from them. Get to know the staff. If you drop some coin throughout the year and you become a regular face, you will get the rare bottles.

[mosesbotbol]

I would not buy expensive Bourbon on the secondary markets; way too many fake bottles out there. For sure I would not pay for a dram of fancy Bourbon at a restaurant; very high fake rate. Unless you see them crack the bottle open, be very skeptical with the likes of Pappy...

If you get a chance to try an old un-opened bottle of whiskey that you are familiar with, you'll see what time in the bottle does. You'll lose some of the freshness and pop of new bottle, but gain some smoothness that only time can do.

It's not too hard to find a Seagram or Canadian Club bottle that 20-50 years old. Think of your older relatives that do not drink but had that bottle sitting around forever.

[Porch Dweller]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

I would not buy expensive Bourbon on the secondary markets; way too many fake bottles out there.

Bingo.

Esquire had an article yesterday that touched on this very subject. It's interesting that there's a big market for empty Pappy bottles. It talks about how empties of the 20-year old have sold for $200 on E-Bay and how a guy has found serial numbers from used bottles on "new" offerings on some of the secondary market web sites.
It's worth a read if you're a bourbon fan and have seven minutes to spare or so.

[hotreds]

So- has anybody compared Weller Antique with PVW?

[vinnyvega]

Originally Posted by hotreds

So- has anybody compared Weller Antique with PVW?

Your thinking is going in the right direction......

Both wheated. Lots of rumors about where the barrels that are not selected for Pappy bottling go. Weller 12 year?????