Ray Lewis to Retire :(

[Coach Deg]

I watched Ray play in High School and win a state wrestling championship. I talked to his coach back then and was told most troubled determined athlete he'd ever seen. Coach said Miami is not the place for him.

He made mistakes, he was there when a murder took place, pannicked and lied. Then testified to put the murderers in jail and paid the families of the victims. Ray did not, and I believe this, did not kill anyone, but was there.
He has changed, grown up, and by all accounts became a model citizen.

As a football players maybe the best ever, as a man he still has years to prove who he is.

Would I let him date my daughter? No , he will have to prove his whole life that he has changed from the young man in that limo. For me to hold him on the Man pedestal.

[loki]

stabby isn't retiring this will be farve part 2

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by NeuRon

Tom, i know you are in the law enforcement field, but i still think every person should be given a second chance.. I was given one, and not a day goes by where it doesnt cross my mind.. especially as a motivational piece.. Maybe that is why his situation hits hard for me.. This man has earned the right to live his life and move on.. he has been an upstanding citizen ever since his run-in.. What more does he have to pay? Ive had enough of society rejecting people because of their past.. Its shallow and pathetic.

So I am shallow and pathetic because I don't look past Lewis' past?

And remember O.J. was aquitted....think he is innocent? I am sorry, Ron, in one part you critisize the legal system, in another you quote the "innocent until proven guilty" part....I know you are not naive enough to think that everyone not charged or not convicted is innocent.

Originally Posted by NeuRon

Infact.. why are we having this conversation of social acceptance in a post that was made to celebrate the FOOTBALL career of a first ballot hall of fame football player?

Enough is Enough

I know when some people make a thread, they want it all to go their way, and celebrate their point-of-view. But when you throw it out there, you run the risk of oppposing or divergent points of view. As long as it remains civil, that is part of open discourse...you can't dictate where the conversation goes. Have your say, but allow others to have theirs (within civility) without becoming emotional or adversarial....that's my 1 1/2 cents, and worth every penny.

[NeuRon]

The fact that people are judging him based on something they know nothing about is pathetic and shallow. Take it how you want it. Ive been one of these people that were judged, and it makes me sick. Yeah. SICK.

This is a football career im refering to. So if people want to polute it with their judgements of how "they view him" (a complete stranger), then go right ahead. But i wont sit here and like it. Society amd their judgements of random peoples pasts sre a joke. Now take a step back and think about how silly i is to make judgements on a complete stranger

[CigarNut]

Time for everyone to step back, take a deep breath and have a cigar. Maybe some beverage-of-choice too.

Nothing wrong with agreeing-to-disagree...

[NeuRon]

Thank you Micheal.. cigar time indeed.. ! sorry if i sound silly guys, but it just doesnt seem right to me..

i just think its not a matter of disagreeing.. but rather passing judgement on a complete stranger isnt very gentlemanly IMO..

i started the thread to talk about him retiring from football.. Now all of the sudden, 13 years after the fact, his character is still questioned.. just sad IMO..

[bobarian]

Why sad? You started the thread talking about retirement. Then you called him the best defensive player in the past 20 years and a guaranteed first ballot Hall of Famer.

Not convicted is not the same as innocent. Turning state's evidence in return for dropping or reduction in charges is not innocent. In some cases even acquittal does not mean innocent.

If you had left the discussion to just his retirement then the subject of character may not have even been broached. But when you opened the conversation to more than retirement, everything is fair game.

[icehog3]

You are passing judgement of a complete stranger as well, Ron....yours is just a positive judgement. If it is sad and pathetic for me to question a man's character for involvement in the most serious crime known to man, color me pathetic.

[pnoon]

Originally Posted by NeuRon

The fact that people are judging him based on something they know nothing about is pathetic and shallow. Take it how you want it. Ive been one of these people that were judged, and it makes me sick. Yeah. SICK.

This is a football career im refering to. So if people want to polute it with their judgements of how "they view him" (a complete stranger), then go right ahead. But i wont sit here and like it. Society amd their judgements of random peoples pasts sre a joke. Now take a step back and think about how silly i is to make judgements on a complete stranger

Which is exactly what you have done here.

So sorry we all don't agree with you but to categorize us all as sad and pathetic because of it is insulting.

[NeuRon]

a win for Lewis at his final game at M&T Bank Stadium... couldnt be happier..

Do your thing Ray...... do your thing...

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by Coach Deg

He made mistakes, he was there when a murder took place, pannicked and lied. Then testified to put the murderers in jail and paid the families of the victims. Ray did not, and I believe this, did not kill anyone, but was there.

1) more than lied. His suit from that evening has never been found. Why on Earth would he discard it? He was more than just there. He was part of the fight.

2) he didn't pay those families as a gesture of kindness. He was sued and it was part of an undisclosed settlement to make the suits go away.

3) he was indicted for murder along with the other two defendants. After the indictment, he took a plea to testify against the others, who I believe we're acquitted, hence he didn't really help put anyone in jail.

Love him as a football player but by no means justify what he did. In my opinion, he is no different than OJ, a man who got away with being involved in a taking a life, and in Ray's case, two lives. For me personally, doesn't matter what he did on the gridiron as he never paid his debt to society.

[Coach Deg]

Like I said, I would not let him date my daughter.

[NeuRon]

the funny part is, every person who has posted on this thread feels that he did not personally commit the murder..

So what did he do? throw his suit away? lol.. get real... he was a kid.. he panicked... kids make mistakes.. now he is a grown man, still being judged by grown men (who apparently never made mistakes as kids)...

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by NeuRon

the funny part is, every person who has posted on this thread feels that he did not personally commit the murder..

Not really sure where in my post you got that message.

Lets all grow up to someday be like him.

He is a piece of crap that got away with being involved in the deaths of two human beings. That is more than a "mistake".

[bobarian]

Originally Posted by NeuRon

the funny part is, every person who has posted on this thread feels that [b]he did not personally commit the murder.
So what did he do? throw his suit away? lol.. get real... he was a kid.. he panicked... kids make mistakes.. now he is a grown man, still being judged by grown men (who apparently never made mistakes as kids)...

That's just plain ignorant. You dont have to pull the trigger to be indicted. If he was there, then he is charged with the same crime. Lots of "kids" spending 20-Life for similar participation in murder.

Judging him guilty of murder, no. Judging his character as flawed, yes.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by NeuRon

the funny part is, every person who has posted on this thread feels that he did not personally commit the murder..

So what did he do? throw his suit away? lol.. get real... he was a kid.. he panicked... kids make mistakes.. now he is a grown man, still being judged by grown men (who apparently never made mistakes as kids)...

Mistakes as a kid? Sure....but I was never implicated in a double homicide.

But what do I know? I am apparently pathetic.

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by icehog3

Mistakes as a kid? Sure....but I was never implicated in a double homicide.

Great player and strong personality in the locker/on the field. Would not want to disrespect anyone in his family...

Angel or someone to look up to... Not really. His timing is perfect for his retirement.

[kelmac07]

Had a hell of a game today...13 tackles.

[NeuRon]

Originally Posted by bobarian

Judging him guilty of murder, no. Judging his character as flawed, yes.

yeah, because your "judgement" means alot of something he did as a kid over a decade ago.. nobody is saying he is a saint


and yes... the way people think they can "cast out" somebody for something that happened in somebodies youth, is purely pathetic.. Ill say it again for those who have trouble understanding.. "Judging people for their past problems is pathetic".. And its good to see that people who are in the line of work of viewing people as innocent until proven guilty openly profile some people as bad... truly Sad. So much for open minded

i would love nothing more than to ask a few questions about the upbringing of the people questioning his integrity (for something that happened almost half his life ago)... seriously, grow up.. real men dont judge others on their past mistakes..


i can do this all day long boys.. being that it was turned into a social acceptance thread instead of a football thread..

[NeuRon]

Originally Posted by kelmac07

Had a hell of a game today...13 tackles.

exactly... it was great to see how somebody who was so "done" come back and make it happen.... respect