The Official Asylum Reef Tank Thread

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by md4958

Im assuming the point of a chiller is to cool the water, but do the lamps generate THAT much heat that they actually heat the water that much?? So Im assuming that in a saltwater tank a heater isnt necessary??

Does it heat up the water that much?
Sure.
Especially the smaller the tank is or the lower in height.
My 225 fish only is lit by four 4 - 36" Power Compact Units (96 W each).
That generates some heat but not much as Power Compacts run quite cool.
However, VHOs run hot.
Metal Halides run incredibly hot.
You can and should use fans to get some of that heat out of there (you can see that in the design of the last tank I pictured) but when you throw in the heat generated by recirculating pumps, UV, etc, it does raise your temperature quite a few degrees. Enough to make corals quite uncomfortable.

As for the heater, depends.
In South Florida, don't use them. Don't need them.
We will never have a low temperature concern.
The opposite is true. Just about everyone should have a chiller.
In the NE as an example, yeah, you would still need a heater for the cold winters.

I keep my house temperature at 75. Without my chiller, with cool Power Compacts but three pumps and a UV running the system, my temperature will rise to around 82-84.
The chiller maintains it at 77.

Many folks get away with reefs in some parts of the country without a chiller.
Most have one.
Depends on where you are and the temperature your water goes to.

[md4958]

so, I would need a chiller AND a heater?

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by md4958

so, I would need a chiller AND a heater?

Where you are in CT? I would say absolutely.
I say that as I spent 30 yrs in NJ.
You cannot risk your house temperature dropping to the 20's, 30's if your heater unit goes out on your home.
Well worth the investment.
If you have hot lamps, then yes to a chiller also due to the hot NE summers.
You can use one programmer (dual controller) and plug the heater in the that controller also that runs the chiller.
This way, you set the temperature where the chiller should go on (heater will not fight it and stay off) and then you set the low point where the heater goes on (chiller will now remain off).
That is the best route to go.
If you do a refugium or wet dry filter, you can drop your heater in there and it is out of sight and not cluttering the inside of the tank.
If the tank has no internal overflow to do bottom filtration, then you do the conventional heater in the tank.
I would invest in a tank with an internal overflow box. Best route to provide ample alternatives for under tank filtration.
You can always do a "hang on" overflow box but it doesn't look as nice or allow you as much flow generally.

[md4958]

Thanks for the info Carlos!

[fissure]

A chiller also depends on your setup. I had 600 watts of halides running over a 120 with no heat issues due to the fact I had 200 more gallons of water in the basement connected into the system. There are lots of ways to get around having a chiller, but there are some times that having one is the easiest. Although they are power hungry and expensive to run.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by fissure

Although they are power hungry and expensive to run.

That they are.
Mine is a 1/3 HP.
I estimate it costs me about $35 a month to run it.
Cost me $600 "wholesale". Runs closer to $1K retail.

However, plenty of newer chillers in the market for smaller set ups (mine is 225 G) that are not as expensive and don't cost as much to run.
The run costs are more related to the temperature drop required.

One thing I have learned from my years in the business/hobby, always go bigger than you need.
Bigger on everything.
Bigger lighting.
Bigger heater.
Bigger UV.
Bigger Protein Skimmer.
Bigger chiller.
Bigger wet dry/filter.
Bigger all.
Bigger, is and will always be better.

Oh, and last but not least, bigger tank. (remember what happens to us all in the cigar hobby with humidors - we always end up with a bigger one and then want yet a bigger one - well, same thing in the fish hobby)

I have now been dreaming of a 400 gallon for a while but my wife wakes me up in the middle of it and hits me over the head.

[Wolfgang]

I dont have or need a chiller on my reef. Lights on ll day and its a constant 78 degrees winter and summer.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by Wolfgang

I dont have or need a chiller on my reef. Lights on ll day and its a constant 78 degrees winter and summer.

Wow. In Florida?
What do you keep your house setting at?

[Wolfgang]

House currently has the heat on at 70 and in the summer the Air is on at 75. I dont have a canopy on my tank and instead of glass lids I have the entire top covered in egg crate. I lose about a gallon of water/day to evap.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by Wolfgang

House currently has the heat on at 70 and in the summer the Air is on at 75. I dont have a canopy on my tank and instead of glass lids I have the entire top covered in egg crate. I lose about a gallon of water/day to evap.

Ahhhh........

Yup.
I use to keep my tank at 78-79 with no chiller either with the house at 75 but man did I go through water.
It took fans blowing at the top and fans on the wet dry to stop the moisture from wrecking the wood.
I would go through one gallon of water a day v. about 2 a week with the chiller.
Good thing you don't have a canopy as it would warp from the moisture.

back to my lighting thing, im thinking about this

http://www.marineandreef.com/Outer_O...p/rcu01077.htm

i want to be able to keep clams and any type of corals

[Wolfgang]

Its a good light but I still say avoid Halides unless you are planning for a chiller as well. They are very expensive to buy, expensive to run, and are very hot. You Can keep clams and most any kind of coral under T-5s now a days. Even anemones do well under t-5s.

T5s are cheaper to buy, use less energy, put out less heat, and bulbs are much much cheaper. Trust me. I have used halides before and also gotten an electric bill for $600 as a result. Think of all the cigars you could buy for $600

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by Wolfgang

Its a good light but I still say avoid Halides unless you are planning for a chiller as well. They are very expensive to buy, expensive to run, and are very hot. You Can keep clams and most any kind of coral under T-5s now a days. Even anemones do well under t-5s.

T5s are cheaper to buy, use less energy, put out less heat, and bulbs are much much cheaper. Trust me. I have used halides before and also gotten an electric bill for $600 as a result. Think of all the cigars you could buy for $600

Totally agree.
If I were not to do T5's for whatever reason(s), would do standard VHOs.
Last thing would be Halides for thanks to living in Florida.
When my son had them, my electric bill was about $100 per month more, minimum (of course chiller involved also).

[fissure]

T5's all the way. Depending on tank depth (24" or greater), you can overdrive T5's with an icecap VHO ballast and get great performance. T5's will keep anything you want. SPS, clams...ect. I ran halides and with all my uncovered sumps in the basement I used to evap 2.5 gallons a day. Didn't want to invest the money into a ventilation/heat exchanger, so took down all the sumps and big tank.

Just ordered my aquapod 24G. Now im shopping live sand and rock, Im thinking a mixture of Fuji and Carribiean. also theres a type that has a shelf look to it. cant remeber the name of it, but probably get some of that too.

thinking about 30 pounds total, probably a bit much but then I have it.

sweet! Thanks for the ispration and well hey here goes another slope. Between my cars, motorcycles, Boats, And cigars, Im freaking screwed!

anyways, Here goes nothin!

Oh any reccomendations on sand?

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by darb85

Oh any reccomendations on sand?

Go with live sand.
It is neat.
Clean.
Has bio for you to help establish the tank.

BTW,
Don't believe it takes weeks to cycle a tank.
I have cycled many, many tanks and thrown in thousands of dollars of fish, with no problems.
The trick is three days use of a product called Bacter Vital.
Works like a charm.
I also use it quite often to set up hospital tanks asap when needed.

Originally Posted by Blueface

Go with live sand.
It is neat.
Clean.
Has bio for you to help establish the tank.

BTW,
Don't believe it takes weeks to cycle a tank.
I have cycled many, many tanks and thrown in thousands of dollars of fish, with no problems.
The trick is three days use of a product called Bacter Vital.
Works like a charm.
I also use it quite often to set up hospital tanks asap when needed.

Good to know.

I was planning on live sand but is there a brand thats good or is it kind of a generic buy in bulk kind of thing?

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by darb85

Good to know.

I was planning on live sand but is there a brand thats good or is it kind of a generic buy in bulk kind of thing?

There are not too many companies doing that from what I recall, unless more have popped up.
Any will be good.
It is not cheap as compared to regular sand but well worth the difference in price.
What I love about it is that you don't clean it. Just drop it in the tank and in no time, it all settles down and the tank is clear as can be.

[shilala]

If you're not in a huge hurry, you can use 1/2 live sand and 1/2 whatever sand and give it a couple weeks. You don't even need 1/2 live sand, just a good amount to seed the tank.
I guess my point is that the base needs to be deep and thick. If the cost of the sand causes you to order less than the optimal amount, that's okay, but add enough other sand to get a good base.
Most folks skrimp on base material and it's the heart of a system. The deeper the base the more biological action and the healthier the tank. It's huge.

[ucubed]

This is the tank my father keeps at home. The pictures are a few months old so it probably looks different now and probably cleaner, but here it is.