College Hoops Thread 2011-2012

[yourchoice]

Originally Posted by SD Beerman

SDSU is a 6 seed and they are 2 point dogs to NC State......

Exactly.

[The Poet]

We've already talked some about later games today, like the VCU/Wichita St. one, and some of them don't much interest me all that much. Loyola MD vs. Ohio State? South Dakota State vs. Baylor? Even in-state "rivals" Western Kentucky vs. UK doesn't do it for me. But there are a few that look to have some potential, such as:


West Virginia vs. Gonzaga = Both schools have had better teams in the past, yet both still have some fairly decent players who can ball a bit. This could be a lot of fun, and may go down to who executes in the last 2 minutes.

U Conn vs. Iowa State = The Huskies have talent from the neck down, and air from the neck up. Plus, they don't fair well out of their comfort zone, which is no more than 30 miles from Storrs. Meanwhile the Cyclones have faced tough competition, and has had good success against it, beating the like of Kansas, Missouri, Baylor, and K-State (2X!). I'm looking for one of two things here; an all-out war, or the Cyclones blowing the Huskies right out of the Bucket.

New Mexico State vs. Indiana = Don't get me wrong, as I'm not gonna pick a 13 to knock off a 4 here, though it does happen. The Hoosiers are certainly the better team, no doubt. Plus, I'm not about to pick against baby brother Cody Zeller, even if he's wearing red and not blue. But IU just lost their point guard Verdell Jones III to a torn ACL, so it will be interesting to see how they adjust.


Vandy's gone up 10 at the break over Harvard, and LBS is hanging with NM. Otherwise:


Syracuse 72 - UNC-A 65 = The Orange have to fight to survive, yet manage to escape being the first 1 to fall to a 16-seed. How much longer they survive remains to be seen. Sometimes a fight like this can focus a team, and sometimes it just shows how vulnerable they are.

Maybe back later, maybe not. Regardless, enjoy.

[The Poet]

Originally Posted by yourchoice

I use the betting line to gauge an upset. If the spread is around 3-4 or less, I consider it a mild upset. 4-5 or more, an upset. Sometimes just a higher seeding isn't indicitive of an upset, IMO.

Originally Posted by SD Beerman

SDSU is a 6 seed and they are 2 point dogs to NC State......

Well, I'm just a country boy, and not a Vegas bookie. So talk to Charles Barkley, not to Kenny Smith.

[The Poet]

Back briefly with two non-hoops stories:


It seems like a few members of Southern Miss's band is in deep doo-doo with their dean. They started chanting "Where's your green card?" at a K-State player born in Puerto Rico. When you couple the ignorance of the chant itself with the ignorance of the fact that a child born in the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico is a citizen of the United States and NEEDS no green card leads one to question the academic standards down them there parts. The school has already issued an apology, yet you can expect some discipline for the offenders.

Do you remember that Christian Laettner shot 'way back in the 1991 East Regional that beat Kentucky? Do you remember the great pass that Grant Hill made to his teammate which led to the bucket? Well, not only do the people at UPS remember, it seems the folks in Lexington do too. You may have seen the commercial UPS has been running which touts the guy who makes the delivery. The Big Blue Nation objects to said commercial, and has requested (Demanded?? That seems more like them.) that UPS stop running the commercial. Hey, 'Cats, why don't you concern yourself more with the present, and win the games this time, instead of obsessing over something 21 years in the past? Jeez, makes sense to me.

[jcruse64]

We watched the 1st half of the Marquette game before going on home, and they were roughing the Cougars up pretty good. Got within 6, before Marquette slammed the door.

Good analysis on the Racers. Really good defenders that use this to create scoring, and can move the ball quickly. If Caanan either can't hit the 3, or is getting double/triple teamed, they have other guards more than capable of scoring. But... the last 3 weeks or so of play, they have let the boards go. Especially troubling is the lack of offensive rebounding, which could be turning into 2nd-chance points. This killed the Racers today in H1. For some reason, in the last few weeks, Daniels has decided to become a pacifist, and Aska is not paying attention. They'd better have received the wakeup call today, because Marquette will make them pay for this. On the other hand, in H2, Daniels and the others REALLY upped the defensive intensity. Really, Colorado State outshined MSI in many categories: shooting %, 3 point %, Freebies%, and rebounds. But they kept them from scoring, and won.

I think Prohme will be a good coach for the next level very soon, but he still needs some polish and experience. He will probably get an offer he can't refuse this off-season, but I hope he sticks around for at least 3 seasons. MSU has hosted more than a few up and comer coaches, and they've mostly had a tough go of it in the higher tier programs. Hope to see Cronin have more success at Cincy.

WKU started off well against UK, but it was no contest.

UNC-A almost did it!!! They had a chance. The refs did not help, for sure, but they blew it. I don't see 'Cuse going much farther.

Harvard falls to the up-and-down, southern Ivy League school, Vandy.

VCU has a 3 point lead w/ 12 secs left...wow!

[The Poet]

I'll post more later, but at the moment I'm involved in seeing if Jerry's Wolfpack can hold on to knock out Larry's Aztecs. With 4 minutes left, the 'Pack up 8.

[The Poet]

Sorry I've not been back, but I got wrapped up in that NCSU/SDSU game, and then the Fla. State/Bonnies war, then my Heels as it took them a while to get ahold of VT, and now Mizzou fighting for their lives against Norfolk State. We'll play some catch-up tomorrow, I promise.

[jcruse64]

Wolfpack survives; good on them!

1st BIG upset; Norfolk State hangs on to knock off Mizzou Woooohhhhh!!!!

Racers vs Marquette upper level tickets were $150 per when we got home last night. Over $300 per today; will be watching from the recliner tomorrow!!!

As always, a fun tourney so far. Hope you guys are enjoying it.

[kelmac07]

Norfolk State beating Mizzo is all everyone is talking about here...oh and VCU as well.

[mase]

Down goes Duke! Down goes Duke!

[Col. Kurtz]

Originally Posted by The Poet

I'll post more later, but at the moment I'm involved in seeing if Jerry's Wolfpack can hold on to knock out Larry's Aztecs. With 4 minutes left, the 'Pack up 8.

Found this on the interwebz. Looks like the faithful like Gottfried...

[Col. Kurtz]

Originally Posted by mase

Down goes Duke! Down goes Duke!

Bet that just screwed up EVERYBODY'S brackets...

[SD Beerman]

Wait until next year......


great games today......lovin it!

[jledou]

Duke and the Zoo go down ... KU had better pay attention here....

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by mase

Down goes Duke! Down goes Duke!

Like I said earlier; Dookie = Overrated (at least this year)

Originally Posted by Col. Kurtz

Bet that just screwed up EVERYBODY'S brackets...

Eh, I had them losing to Xavier, so I'm not hurt too bad by it. The Mizzou loss though...

[Stephen]

How's everyone's brackets looking so far? Mine isn't in the best shape, but still have a chance to make a nice run. Only missing two Sweet 16 teams (picked Davidson & Michigan) and a Final 4 team (Missouri).

[kelmac07]

Originally Posted by Stephen

How's everyone's brackets looking so far? Mine isn't in the best shape, but still have a chance to make a nice run. Only missing two Sweet 16 teams (picked Davidson & Michigan) and a Final 4 team (Missouri).

23 of 32 picks correct...

[The Poet]

Hey, I stopped doing brackets years ago. Why do you think they call it Madness?

I'll be back a little later to talk about a common statement that has bothered me for years, and came home to roost big-time yesterday. I bet you can't wait for that.

[The Poet]

If nothing else, it was an interesting day of hoops on Friday, as tons of people had their brackets totally torn apart. Not only did Mizzou and Dook go down, but the Ohio Bobcats knocked Michigan, co-champs of the Big Ten regular season, out of The Dance, while South Florida bulled the Temple Owls out, thus depriving many of one Cinderella pick. But the Tiger and Blue Devil losses in particular point out something that has bothered me for years, and that being the bold statement:


Guards win you championships.


Now, I am not about to denigrate the importance of quality guard play, and the statement is not a total fallacy. Yet I find it a misconception, or at least a flawed perception, for if you don't have some horses down low you are unlikely to survive. Mizzou came into the game touted for their unusual 3-guard offense, which was said to make them difficult to defend. True as that is, it only goes so far. If you've been reading this thread all along, you know how many times I have stated that the Tigers may be good, but they were not as great as the perception of their fans, and even of too many "experts". As for Duke, you can lament that they badly missed injured Kelly, but one thing they missed from this 6'10" player was his outside range, which was hard to defend and which opened up the lane for teammates by stretching the opponent's D. That's well and good, as far as it goes, but a big man is of more value in the paint! Me, I've never been overly impressed with the Plumlees, but last night they were the most effective option Dook had, and those guards did not do enough to get them the damn ball! Even the analysts said that they needed to play inside-out, not outside-in, and that was not only big man Charles Barkley but PG Kenny Smith too. Jet may have feigned backhanding the Round Mound when he spouted the old saw about dying by the three, but he also knows it is the truth.

As I said, good guard play is important. But the most important part of it is not the scoring, but the handling of the ball and the getting of it to the other guys in the right place at the right time. Yesterday Tyler Zeller got his double-double points and rebounds (17&15) in good part because Kendall Marshall did his job. Marshall's 11 points (on 5 for 7 shooting, not the 5 for 20 we saw from some other guards yesterday) was just icing on his 10 assists.

This idea of guards ruling the NCAAs may be sexy, but it does not hold up under tight scrutiny. Every year CBS opens up their pregame with the Michael Jordan shot which gave UNC the lead over Georgetown back in 1982. But nobody seems to talk about James Worthy getting 26 points in that game, nor the fact that the story going in was that Sam Perkins of Carolina could not handle the Hoyas' freshman man-child Patrick Ewing. And speaking of Ewing, it is true he won only one ring, but he did get to 3 championship games. Is that too old a reference for you? Well, let's go back to the last time the undisputed best team in the nation won it all, that being the Tar Heels in 2009. I was proud of the way I was able to handicap all those games, but particularly proud of the way I parsed perhaps the most interesting match-up of that run . . . UNC against upset-minded Oklahoma. Going into it, the experts were saying that Blake Griffin would eat Tyler Hansbrough for lunch, as he was much the superior athlete. I could not dispute the possibility, and agonized over the keys to that contest for a Heel victory to ensue. Finally, I asked myself two questions: "Could Blake have a monster game, yet Oklahoma still lose?" Yes, I decided. "Did Carolina need Tyler to have a monster game to win?" No, I also decided. From that point, I was not worried. If you recall, Blake did have a huge game, while Tyler got only (if I rememeber correctly) only 8 points. The Heels won that game from the outside, with scoring from guys like Ty Lawson, Wayne Ellington, and Danny Green. On the surface, this seems to dispute the point I'm trying to make. Yet look at it more closely. Coming into that game, the Sooners knew they had no shot at all without Blake Griffin on the court, and they also knew that Hansbrough was perhaps the best man ever at drawing fouls. So they double-teamed him throughout the game in order to deny him the ball (and thus protect Blake), and triple-teamed him when he did get touches. The result of this was that it left those outside jumpshooters for UNC open looks at good shots, and they took full advantage. But nobody, NOBODY!, seemed to take note of that, despite the fact that, as I had predicted, it was the key to the game.

Bottom line, I am surprised that Duke and Missouri got beaten by Lehigh and Norfolk State respectively. However, I am NOT surprised that they did not make it far in the NCAA Tournament this year. For every Tyus Edney, Bryce Drew, or Stephan Curry hero in the history of the NCAAs, there are 10 or 12 chuckers or fumblers or ballhogs who shoot their teammates in the foot.

I'm off my soapbox now. Let's do some hoops.

[The Poet]

It looks like the Orange will survive at least one more round, as they are up double-digits on K-State with about 2 minutes left.