The Official Asylum Reef Tank Thread

[Jefft72]

I am not a fan of hermits myself. Clean up crew consists of a various snails for me (astrea, nassarius, etc) along with whatever soup of critters are in there (bristle worms, etc).

Hermits are fun to look at, but too destructive.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Jefft72

I am not a fan of hermits myself. Clean up crew consists of a various snails for me (astrea, nassarius, etc) along with whatever soup of critters are in there (bristle worms, etc).

Hermits are fun to look at, but too destructive.

The hermits ate every single snail in the tank, too. I'll have to find some reef-safe snails that will work once I get rid of these hermits.

[Jefft72]

Reef safe snails:
-Nassarius (burrow in the sand, and come out to feed)
-astrea (move around on glass and rocks eatting algae)
-Turbo (large, and sometimes bullish if coral that is not secured gets in their way, but they will mow down hair algae)
-cerith (similar to the astrea in behavior, but has a different shaped shell, smaller and usually cheaper).

I like a large quantity of snails. I don't have near enough currently, but I would try to do 1 per gallon with a mix to whatever ones you choose. You can usually check the online vendors to get better prices for a variety pack. Good luck with the hermit extraction. Feeding them croceas would be an expensive diet

[sevans105]

Hi guys, I've been reading through this thread with a lot of interest lately. 1 of my friends has a 75 gallon live rock tank that he has severely neglected. he is giving it to me but I'm wondering what sort of things I need to do to start it up correctly. it has all the filtration system skimmers lights everything, she has just let it get over grown with some sort of green algae. there are also a few fish in it, nothing special, a blue damsel and two tomato clowns. From what I've read I need to take things out and scrub them with a wire brush, rinse them in new clean water, and then slowly incorporate the new water into the tank. any other suggestions?

[shilala]

The green algae grows when the water is too fertile. So does brown algae and all the other crap. She was probably topping off with tap water.
To do the reef thing, you absolutely have to have a source of zero tds (total dissolved solids) water, Scotty. That means it's completely pure. Then there's nothing for the algae to grow on.
I get lazy and don't test my water from my unit and I can tell the filters are shot as soon as algae blooms. Some amount is acceptable, but not much.

I don't think I'd start scrubbing anything. Move the tank, make new water (even if you have to buy distilled by the gallon at Target), and get a Tang. Tangs love eating that algae, they'll clean it right up, but slowly. That's what you want.
If you start scrubbing the rock you'll do more damage than good.

You'll probably need new lightbulbs, too. Depends on what kind of fixture she has. Just clean the filters and skimmers and do proper maintenance.
The new, clean water will likely starve the green algae and make it break down and sluff off slowly. The Tang would keep up with that and you won't have a big nasty bioload for the filters and tank and water to take care of.

After the initial setup, you'll need to change about 1/3 of the water once a month.
Then start reading your brains out. It only took me 15 years to get from a saltwater rock/fish tank to a successful reef.
Reef tanks need specialized equipment that I didn't have quite right (lights and wavemakers, mainly). Once everything is right, it's easy. About as hard as taking care of a cat.

[Jefft72]

Scott, if the tank is overwhelmed with algae due to neglect then it might be best to break it down completely and try to start fresh. I would try to sell the fish back to a local fish shop. "Cooking" the rock would come next and is a process meant to kill all the nuisance algae that has collected. Basically, you put all the rock into a rubber maid container (multiple if necessary) and fill with new saltwater. Then you put a pump in there for circulation and perhaps a bubble stone. Some folks will run a skimmer as well. Weekly water changes will be done during the process and after several weeks of this you will have sparkling new rock that is clean and clear.

During that time you can also scrape all the surfaces of the tank so that the glass is clear again and clean along with cleaning any equipment that also might need it. Vinegar baths do wonders for reef equipment that is encrusted with algae.

It sounds like a lot of work I realize, but if you start a reef/saltwater/freshwater tank with algae then it will be a constant battle and you will not enjoy it. You may very well encounter algae once you get the tank setup anyway. Algae is a way of life it seems.

Good luck with it if you decide to take the plunge.

[shilala]

I'm with ya, Jeff. I was just doing the cook and trying to save the rock as best as possible. I've had no problems controlling algae with good water. I watch diatom blooms and algae to let me know where my water is at. It's not very good right now.
I'm sure it's way more than acceptable to anyone in the world but me, but I like a super-clean tank and I'm crazy anal about it.
The clowns and damsel shouldn't have any problem with the new water, but Scotty could isolate them in a bucket with a bubbler. Personally I'd toss them in, they're tough.
I'd definately clean the tank and filters and skimmers before I reuse them. I keep a five gallon bucket of white vinegar with a lid on it and run a powerhead in there when I'm cleaning stuff. It works wonders.

My hermits only eat things that are dieing anyway. I have had a dozen snails for more than a year and had a crocea that survived about five years with a bunch of hermit crabs.
Algae will die off if you get all the nutrients out of the water. Starve it down. Cleaning, filtering, water changes, live stripping by growing algae in the refugium and throwing it away, etc. The removing the rocks and scrubbing helps by taking away material from the nutrient cycle.

[sevans105]

Thanks guys! I think I'll do the cook process. I've had a salt fish tank in the past and I'm with Scott...I like a clean tank. I think I may convert another smaller tank I have that is currently empty into a holding tank for the fish while I cook and clean. I live in the middle of no where and the closest store is an hour away so the buy back deal is kinda rough. Besides, they are kinda cute. Lots of work ahead of me but I'm kind of excited. I'll keep you guys posted on my successes/failures.

Thanks again

[Jefft72]

All good advice Scott. You have a lot more experience in the marine tank world than I do so I was definitely looking forward to your take on Scott's situation.

I just replaced the filters and DI in my system. My tank currently has more bubble algae than I am happy with and my halide bulbs need to be replaced (the algae outbreak may be a mixture of bad topoff and the bad bulbs).

The wife and I have discussed shutting the tank down. I want to build a LED setup to grow SPS in the 150g system.......unfortunately that's not a cheap project. Cheaper than buying off the shelf, but still an investment. Plus with 4 kids under the age of 5 any free time......what free time The biggest factor is simply putting more money into it to get it where I want it to be. I have halide ballasts that are bad and need to be replaced/repaired. Weekly maintenance really isn't that big of a deal, like you stated above. Refill topoff container, clean glass, monthly water changes.

I am still flip flopping over the decision to shut it down. Hopefully I can find a way to keep it.

[shilala]

I run a 500-550 watt 8-tube t5 hood over my 75 gallon, Jeff.
Granted, it was expensive at the outset, but I've had it for a lot of years now and aside from changing bulbs now and again, it works great.
I did all the homework on LED lighting less than a year ago. I decided against it. It just simply is not ready for marine application yet. You can make it go, but it costs a fortune, is very focused, and looks like sh1t.
In five years, I honestly think it'll be a no-brainer that it's the way to go, but after all the reading and hearing guy's experiences, it's real clear it's left them wanting.

I found one piece of bubble algae in my tank the other day. I dislodged it and lost it. It'll show up later as a big goofy looking thing and I'll pick it out. I have a few aiptasia or mojanos in there, too. I can't seem to zap the little bastids so I turned some rock to make them more accessible. Now a couple things fell and I have to go diving and glue them down. I'll wait a bit cause I want to see what I find Saturday at the frag swap. I'll probably have to do a bunch of remodeling. I need a few more pieces of rock, too.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by sevans105

Thanks guys! I think I'll do the cook process. I've had a salt fish tank in the past and I'm with Scott...I like a clean tank. I think I may convert another smaller tank I have that is currently empty into a holding tank for the fish while I cook and clean. I live in the middle of no where and the closest store is an hour away so the buy back deal is kinda rough. Besides, they are kinda cute. Lots of work ahead of me but I'm kind of excited. I'll keep you guys posted on my successes/failures.

Thanks again

You have a plan, Scotty. You can use your friend's water for the temp tank. Just don't use it for the new tank. You can't (or shouldn't) use the cook water in your new tank, either. You're gonna be making a lot of water, for sure. Tons.
Before you leap, consider using all her stuff the way it stands and do water changes and a tang. It'll be a lot cheaper but it'll take longer.
Just cleaning the tank will be a huge step forward, and in a few months the water will be right. You can probably remove another ton of crap by hand, stuff that's not stuck so well.
If you work backwards on this stuff, starving it like Lance said, and using a critter to do the cleanup, it just works better.
Reason being, as the algae breaks down, and the water gets better and better, it'll work twice as hard to scrub the water for food, eventually locking everything up that's available.
Soon you'll have none.
I approach everything in the tank from a biolevel, using what's in there to fix what's wrong. If that doesn't work, I add a critter to fix what's wrong.
If you don't fix the whole cycle, the algae just comes back. I learned that by fighting with brown hair for years. (The answer to that was too much light and I put my lights on timers.)
If you work backwards, once the problem is gone you'll know it's gone for good because of good husbandry. If it comes back, and it probably will if you don't get to the root of the problem, then you haven't really learned anything.
Time and patience in reefkeeping is even tougher than in cigars. Really.

[Jefft72]

I hear you on the T5 setup. That's what was over my last tank. I still have the IC ballasts and may well ditch the big halide fixture and put T5s over the tank. I have an IC 660 and 430, which may be enough to cover the tank sufficiently.

I have family over last weekend and they were all asking me what the pretty pearlescent green balls were.......I had to tell them that they were not desirable at all.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Jefft72

I hear you on the T5 setup. That's what was over my last tank. I still have the IC ballasts and may well ditch the big halide fixture and put T5s over the tank. I have an IC 660 and 430, which may be enough to cover the tank sufficiently.

I have family over last weekend and they were all asking me what the pretty pearlescent green balls were.......I had to tell them that they were not desirable at all.

We have Family Day here every couple weeks and there are always at least five people firmly set in front of the tank. I give class a few times a year and show everyone how the corals eat and stuff. They love it.
Bubble sure is pretty. If you get hardcore about cutting them loose, they'll go to the top, find moving water, and open up into big, goofy looking rubbery taco bowls (in time). It makes them real easy to pick out.

I don't know how many lamps that 660 will drive, but between the two you should have plenty of ass. You gonna build the hood?

[Jefft72]

There is a hood on the tank currently, but the previous owner cut out the top for the halide fixture to fit into. The fixture currently has legs that rest on the inner edge of the hood and sticks out the top. If I were to retrofit the T5s then I would probably fill the hole so that the whole deal could hinge open again like it was designed to do. Fans would need to be added to the hood though for proper ventilation.

I think I may have talked myself into keeping the tank. The wife only asked, "how much will it cost me?" I told her, "practically nothing once I sell the halide fixture and ballasts to offset the cost of new T5 bulbs and endcaps." It's a free upgrade.....sort of.

[OLS]

I also like the idea of taking her tank to it's new place, leaving everything in there and just filling with perfect water.
The fish will appreciate the water, the algae will slowly disappear, and the SHOCK value will be minimal, getting you
cycled up good in about a week. You should get a brown diatom bloom after 4-8 days, and once that clears, you
should see real die-off on the hair algae. And like scott said, you can pull 80% of it off by hand and then let the
rest just fade away. Once you get it cleaned up the easy way, then you can start thinking about risking life
forms in it. But for a month I'd just let snails and hermits run around in there, and of course, your 3 fish.
The move alone is going to be a jolt, I'd keep it to a minimum or you will be out of business for over a month,
maybe well over a month.

But you might want to install a three phase RO filter under your sink, they are about 120 bucks at Lowe's
and they should keep pumping out relatively pure water for 6 months on a set of filters. Once you start
letting the filters go a year, or just pouring tap water in, you will have just what your friend had, a big mess.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Jefft72

There is a hood on the tank currently, but the previous owner cut out the top for the halide fixture to fit into. The fixture currently has legs that rest on the inner edge of the hood and sticks out the top. If I were to retrofit the T5s then I would probably fill the hole so that the whole deal could hinge open again like it was designed to do. Fans would need to be added to the hood though for proper ventilation.

I think I may have talked myself into keeping the tank. The wife only asked, "how much will it cost me?" I told her, "practically nothing once I sell the halide fixture and ballasts to offset the cost of new T5 bulbs and endcaps." It's a free upgrade.....sort of.

Jeff, I have a computer fan that's about 10" or 12" wide that would likely go right in that hole. You'd have to power it with a low voltage adapter. I have a whole milkcrate of them somewhere.
I think you're going another direction, but thought that might be a way to avoid fans in the ends.
I think you'll be thrilled to get into t5's. I use two different bulbs. I run the actinic blue two hours more each day than the whites. Both are on timers. It's a sweet setup.
I look forward to seeing the end result!!!

[shilala]

Originally Posted by OLS

Once you start
letting the filters go a year, or just pouring tap water in, you will have just what your friend had, a big mess.

It only takes 4-6 months to wreck $70 worth of filters with the sh1tty water here. I put in all that gear that preceeds this page and that should help a lot. Time will tell.
So far so good, and I have 3 water testers now, so I won't be dumping bad water that I thought was good in my tank anymore. On the upside, it didn't take long for me to figure out my filters went bad. Reefs will tell a guy all kinds of stuff if I just look.

[Jefft72]

A computer fan that is 10-12" wide? Is it an array of fans 3-4 lined up, I have seen those around before. I haven't thought out the cooling yet, but I think that fans placed on top of the end caps will be the way I go. The only consideration is whether to exhaust air out the top or blow air in and over the end caps.

I will probably go with a fairly open structure and use some aluminum angle to mount everything up to and attach to the existing hood. Cheap, lightweight, and open top so as not to trap heat, but the whole assembly will still hinge open on the existing top that is there.

I did like the T5 setup I had before. I ran 3 T5 and 2 T12 super actinic staggered like you do with timers. SPS grew very well and had great color. Looks like it is time to go shopping for bulbs. The IC 660 will run 16" of bulbs....that would mean 4x4". The 430 has a lower limit if I recall. I may very well have to pick up a second 660 and keep the 430 for actinic duties.

[Jefft72]

I have a dual TDS meter on my RO unit. One side reads TDS before the DI and the other side reads TDS after DI. I regularly use RO water to refill 3 liter water bottles to use in baby bottles. I know that water is nice and clean.

Dual TDS meter was a great addition to the RO unit for sure. I might pick up a hand held one of these days just to double check.