CA teamwork on Cbid!

[Blak Smyth]

Originally Posted by dave

FYI/SA, in the past, CI has been rumored to (accused of?) deleting notes if they believe them to be done for purpose of collusion.....not saying shouldn't do it; just don't be too surprised if they don't like it much

"Collusion is an agreement between two or more persons, sometimes illegal and therefore secretive, to limit open competition by deceiving, misleading, or defrauding others of their legal rights, or to obtain an objective forbidden by law typically by defrauding or gaining an unfair advantage."

I do not think this is collusion, we are simply putting a note in the notes field provided by the auction house.
I see it no different than if we walked into a live auction together and chose not to bid on an item.

[Tredegar]

I think this is called bid rigging. I am not a lawyer but I believe it is not legit, or ethical. There are plenty of articles about this on the internet. I remember a few years ago several philatelic dealers were convicted of bid rigging. They would agree to not bid on certain auction lots if another were bidding on said lot. They then would hold their own "private auction" of these lots. This went on for years until a disgruntled dealer informed the authorities.

By doing this, no matter how well intentioned, you hurt the auction firm by artificially keeping the prices lower than they might have been if the auction would have run it's course.

[ApexAZ]

Great idea, Shane! I would actually take it 1 step further and request that we include CA and our name, since we have lots of members.

I also wonder about the legality of it.

Originally Posted by Tredegar

I think this is called bid rigging. I am not a lawyer but I believe it is not legit, or ethical. There are plenty of articles about this on the internet. I remember a few years ago several philatelic dealers were convicted of bid rigging. They would agree to not bid on certain auction lots if another were bidding on said lot. They then would hold their own "private auction" of these lots. This went on for years until a disgruntled dealer informed the authorities.

I think the line I highlighted in bold is the most important point here. There is no intention of reselling the cigars, only respecting other members.

[dave]

Again...I'm not advocating one way or another...just don't be surprised if they don't take too kindly. Their site, their football. If they don't like the way you play....they have the option (exercised in the past) of taking their ball with them.

It isn't the note that is the problem - it is the agreement not to bid against each other. It certainly is collusion. If it meets the legal definition of the state (maybe PA), if they can prove it or prosecute is another question. More likely they would just ban you.

Cbids policy - admittedly very open ended.

Users attempting to "cheat" the bidding system by altering or tampering with the course of normal bidding, or by editing bids for the purpose of altering bids or prices in a manner in which it was not intended, may have their bids canceled and their account immediately suspended at the sole discretion of CigarBid.

[Tredegar]

Still by agreeing to not bid on lots that other members have bid on you are not letting the auction run its course.

[Blak Smyth]

In no way am I saying we "agree" not to bid against each other, I am saying we have that choice is all.

This is too much of a grey area, I say we shut this thread down and act like it never happened.
If we can't say it is legit, then I suppose it isn't.

[jluck]

They already offer or initials and city then a spot for notes, they must not be real concerned if other people know who's doing what. I see it as homage of respect,.but its there call I guess.

Great idea.

[croatan]

Originally Posted by Blak Smyth

I say we shut this thread down

I tend to agree. Though friends refraining from bidding against each other happens, at some level, at pretty much any auction, what you're talking about here does smell a bit like collusion to me, too. If anyone has a compelling argument that it's not and wants this thread reopened, feel free to pm me or another admin.

[pnoon]

I'm no lawyer but whatever you decide to do on Cbid, do not, I repeat DO NOT, refer to Cigar Asylum by name, initials, or any other attempt to identify this community.
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