Review terminology

I have read a lot of cigar reviews in which various terms are used to describe the flavor of a cigar: nutty, earthy, coffee, soil, floral, nutmeg, etc. I know that the palette of a new cigar smoker takes time to develop, but there are a lot of times that I get tastes from my cigar that I can't quite put a finger on. Then when I read another review, I think, "Oh, yeah! That's what that taste was!" In other words, I know it when I read it, but not necessarily when I taste it alone.

I was wondering if any of you experienced smokers could put out a list of some of the more common flavors to help noobs like me begin to develop a palette and a range of tastes to match up. Once we learn 'em, we're on our way. It's just getting started that can be difficult.

Thanks!

[wayner123]

Type "flavor wheel" into google and you should get a lot of different images for just this purpose.

Here is one to get you started:

http://www.jacksoysterhouse.com/images/Flavorwheel.jpg


Here is also another thread on the subject:

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showth...t=flavor+wheel

[N2 GOLD]

Originally Posted by wayner123

Type "flavor wheel" into google and you should get a lot of different images for just this purpose.

Here is one to get you started:

http://www.jacksoysterhouse.com/images/Flavorwheel.jpg


Here is also another thread on the subject:

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showth...t=flavor+wheel

Nice, thanks...

Originally Posted by wayner123

Type "flavor wheel" into google and you should get a lot of different images for just this purpose.

Here is one to get you started:

http://www.jacksoysterhouse.com/images/Flavorwheel.jpg


Here is also another thread on the subject:

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showth...t=flavor+wheel

Awesome! I appreciate it, brother.

[BloodSpite]

Very useful!! Good link!

[RatherUneek]

Great information, but I am still looking for something. I have heard the term "barnyard" used to describe flavor and have always wondered what exactly barnyard would taste like. I didn't see it on any of the flavor wheels. Can someone please tell me where they would put it on the wheel or what flavors on the wheel that it may be close to. Thanks!

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by RatherUneek

Great information, but I am still looking for something. I have heard the term "barnyard" used to describe flavor and have always wondered what exactly barnyard would taste like. I didn't see it on any of the flavor wheels. Can someone please tell me where they would put it on the wheel or what flavors on the wheel that it may be close to. Thanks!

I guess it would fall under earthy.

But as with "barnyard" and many other flavors, you won't know what they are until you have thoroughly experienced them. I did a taste test of sorts a while back and it had some very interesting results to what someone tastes in a cigar and how those flavors must have the "mental links" in order to pick them out.

Also note that Dana Small (a taste/flavor scientist) recorded this:

Finally, Small and her colleagues present strong evidence that the final common pathways of taste and smell go to the non-verbal right brain, which has implications for our ability to report thinking processes related to taste and smell; one of the reasons Titchener - and Wundt before him - only reported four tastes was probably that they had difficulty getting people to talk about taste and smell.

So there might be some flavors that you can't describe because of this.

[wayner123]

Here are the results and discussion from that experiment:

First off, a big THANK YOU to each one who participated. I hope the results prove helpful to the community as a whole.

So then, on to my theories. I had thought about food and tasting for a while and I wondered if the food we eat plays a part in “how” we taste a cigar. I mean every description one has for flavors, has to of come from a previous experience with said flavor. But what if a person has not had that particular flavor? Or they may have had it, but it was not fresh or burned into their brain?

My theory was that when a flavor is not known the brain then short circuits and tries to link it up with another flavor. Most likely, one that is most prominent in the cigar or a flavor that one attributes to cigars (tobacco). I also theorized that when this short circuit happens it may sometimes link up with a flavor that is not desirable, and thus lead someone to think the cigar had a bad taste.


This is a short summary of each participant’s review of the cigar.

Volt
Beans – Pina colada, strawberry daiquiri, margarita
Flavors realized – sugary, tobacco, slight citrus

Blues Tiger
Beans – Peach, tangerine, grapefruit
Flavors realized – Peach, orange, slight grapefruit

Virginia Gent
Beans – Black pepper, cinnamon, A&W rootbeer
Flavors realized – black pepper, tobacco

Mark C
Beans – peanut butter, and 2 dove dark chocolate’s (not beans, but actual chocolate)
Flavors realized – Chocolate, woodsy taste (cedar maybe)

DennisP
Beans – watermelon, blueberry, plum, grass, dirt
Flavors realized – pepper, faint citrus, leather, nut/ burn coffee


Now for the kicker….

Each person had the same cigar. It was a 1989 Don Lino Maduro. This cigar line is brand new, so that may have accounted for the nic level (which I personally haven’t noticed). I apologize for the loose draws. The ones I have had from this batch had the same loose draw and I am talking with the makers of the cigar about it.

I proposed myself as the control (the basis for which the flavors would be measured). I would not say I can pick up more flavors than the next guy, but I have smoked enough of these to get a handle on the flavors realized. The flavors I get from these cigars are: A little spice, citrus, coffee and chocolate. The tobacco taste that is there is of a maduro pungent taste.


What does this tell us??

What I did is send each person one of the flavors I had experienced. All with the exception of DennisP (more on that later). So I had planned that each person would find that the beans given, would produce mostly that flavor. And for each one that’s mostly what happened. So what does that mean?

Well, that could mean a couple things. (I’ll give the possibilities and then my opinion as to which one I feel is correct.)

* It could be that the food item was fresh in the person’s mind. Therefore allowing the link to be made more easily.
* The person could have tasted that flavor because that is what they “thought” would be in the cigar and thus have created an imaginary link.
* It could be too that the when the beans did not help, the tobacco or spice flavor came about because that was the closest link to what they “should” be tasting.

(this list is not comprehensive, so if you feel there are some other reasons I would love to hear them)

My opinion is that number 1 is the most correct. I base that because each cigar was the same, but they experienced different flavors. And the only thing different were the food items. I also instructed them not to imagine flavors if they were not there. And everyone abided by the instructions.

Furthermore, DennisP did not receive any bean flavors which I felt would be in the cigar. This would allow him to review it and see if he could come across any of them. He did but very mildly. If he had the citrus or the chocolates, I think the link would have been much stronger.

So this to me, proves the link between tasting food and cigars. So you ask, how does that help me?

Well it has long been my assumption that people who claim they cannot taste flavors in cigars, can actually taste them, they just don’t know what they are. Or in other words the mental "links" are not there. So it does well to experience as many foods and flavors that you can and build up that rolodex of flavors.

I think this test proved my other theory as well. That when the link is not there people’s minds short circuit and they go to what taste is dominant or what they feel they should experience. When DennisP and Virginia Gent tasted only pepper and tobacco, those were two dominant flavors that they could find. I say that the other flavors were there, but they did not have the fresh link or a link at all on which to go back to. So they went with what they knew.

If you have made it this far, THANKS for reading. I hope this has proven a little bit helpful. I in no way think this is a ‘solve all’ for the tasting problems people have. My disclaimer is that everyone’s tastes are subjective. One person might find a flavor they like, while another person hates that same flavor. But I think that it would help everyone to experience more of the foods and flavors in our world in order to build up the databank in which to get the most of our cigars.

If anyone has other thoughts on the results, please post them. I know I may have missed some points that others may see. Thanks again to all who helped!!

[troutbreath]

Originally Posted by RatherUneek

Great information, but I am still looking for something. I have heard the term "barnyard" used to describe flavor and have always wondered what exactly barnyard would taste like. I didn't see it on any of the flavor wheels. Can someone please tell me where they would put it on the wheel or what flavors on the wheel that it may be close to. Thanks!

I usually hear "barnyard" used in reference to a scent/fragrance off the cigar, usually unlit. I usually associate this naming with the smell of a barn -- hay, grass, cow poop. It would be a deep, organic smell, with possibly some lighter (hay, grass) hints, too.

Personally, I can imagine the taste associated with grass or hay. But, I'll trust other's tastes on cow poop.

[Skywalker]

Originally Posted by troutbreath

I usually hear "barnyard" used in reference to a scent/fragrance off the cigar, usually unlit. I usually associate this naming with the smell of a barn -- hay, grass, cow poop. It would be a deep, organic smell, with possibly some lighter (hay, grass) hints, too.

Personally, I can imagine the taste associated with grass or hay. But, I'll trust other's tastes on cow poop.

[Bill86]

I personally hate when people say "barnyard smell". I for one believe 2 things
1. 99% of these people have never smelled a barnyard
2. They say this because everyone else does. (oh yeah barnyard definitely ....no big on this one) I almost disregard reviews completely when I hear this, I certainly stop the videos.

I would accept, hay or straw or something of that sort though. To me a barnyard would probably smell foul or filthy or like animals. I don't think cigars smell like that, at all. If they did I probably wouldn't smoke them.

What I do is this, I smoke a cigar in my head I remember what I taste. Then I compare my notes (mental notes, no one including myself could read my writing) to other reviews (often by the vendors or other members of CA). Usually I'm shooting 90%+ on what other people pick up. I might miss a bit here and there, but as long as the review isn't done by a professional food taster that can pick out every last spice/seasoning I'm not doing too bad.

[oooo35980]

Originally Posted by Bill86

I personally hate when people say "barnyard smell". I for one believe 2 things
1. 99% of these people have never smelled a barnyard
2. They say this because everyone else does. (oh yeah barnyard definitely ....no big on this one) I almost disregard reviews completely when I hear this, I certainly stop the videos.

I would accept, hay or straw or something of that sort though. To me a barnyard would probably smell foul or filthy or like animals. I don't think cigars smell like that, at all. If they did I probably wouldn't smoke them.

What I do is this, I smoke a cigar in my head I remember what I taste. Then I compare my notes (mental notes, no one including myself could read my writing) to other reviews (often by the vendors or other members of CA). Usually I'm shooting 90%+ on what other people pick up. I might miss a bit here and there, but as long as the review isn't done by a professional food taster that can pick out every last spice/seasoning I'm not doing too bad.

A barnyard is the yard adjacent to a barn. Doesn't usually smell that foul unless there are pigs or something in there. Inside the barns are pretty rough sometimes, but the yard is outside so it's not so gross usually. If you want to describe a hay or grassy smell barnyard is pretty accurate.

[RHNewfie]

What? No 12 year old burnt Madagascar vanilla!!! Sorry, someone had to say it...

[SvilleKid]

Originally Posted by Bill86

I personally hate when people say "barnyard smell". I for one believe 2 things
1. 99% of these people have never smelled a barnyard
2. They say this because everyone else does. (oh yeah barnyard definitely ....no big on this one) I almost disregard reviews completely when I hear this, I certainly stop the videos.

I would accept, hay or straw or something of that sort though. To me a barnyard would probably smell foul or filthy or like animals. I don't think cigars smell like that, at all. If they did I probably wouldn't smoke them.

What I do is this, I smoke a cigar in my head I remember what I taste. Then I compare my notes (mental notes, no one including myself could read my writing) to other reviews (often by the vendors or other members of CA). Usually I'm shooting 90%+ on what other people pick up. I might miss a bit here and there, but as long as the review isn't done by a professional food taster that can pick out every last spice/seasoning I'm not doing too bad.

I have to respectfully disagree about the filthy assessment of barnyards. I have smelled barnyards. Grew up around them. I've raised chickens, cows and horses. Have family that raised sheep, pigs, even llamas. oooo35980 is correct in that, unless you are talking about a pig sty, or a cattle feedlot yard, there is much more grass/hay type smells than poop/filth stink. And, when you are talking about cows and horses, unless they are sick, their manure is mostly grass. If they have a lot of grain in their manure, then they are being fed too much grain, and will have nasty, runny, stinky manure. Not a situation a competent rancher/farmer allows!

I will readily agree that I have never tasted a cigar that tasted like a filthy feedlot or pig sty. I have smelled several cigars that strongly scream barnyard (earthy, peaty, composting hay/grass to me) to me, mostly those have been maduros. I have tasted and smelled many cigars that scream fresh hay (and I've hauled hay since I was 14, so I know that smell way better than I prefer!!).

As to the many and varied tastes described, we should all remember that everyone has different tastes (buds)! What I think taste like anise may not be what others think of as anise (liquorice flavor). I like the taste of cooked animal liver and can describe it, but that might not be what it taste like to others. My wife gets physically sick (almost to the point of throwing up) at the smell of skunk if we pass where one has been hit. On the other hand, that smell doesn't bother me in the least.

Bottom line to the newbies to the hobby, don't be discouraged if you don't pick up all the tastes others describe. Due to your own special taste buds, you may never be able to taste all those that are described! As long as you enjoy what you are smoking, go with it. And to damn with what any others (me included) think about your taste preferences!!!!