The Wine Thread

[JohnnyFlake]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

What do you want to know. I adore Madeira, probably more than any other wine, but can get pricy.

The best easy to find Madeiras under $100 are:

Broadbent 10 year Malmsey
Broabent 1996 Colheita
Blandy's Alvada
Rare Wine Company's "Historic Series"
D'Oliveiras 1968 Bual (about $150ish)

I have just recently started enjoying Madeira and I am wondering why it took me so long to try it. I understand that most of what you have mentioned are at the higher end, except maybe the Broadbent 10yr Malmsey. so I have not tried them yet. I have tried Blandy 5 & 10 Sercial and they are great.

I also enjoy some Ports, but what's super nice about Madeira over Port, is that Madeira will virtually last for ever, even once open, if properly sealed. Port may last a few weeks to maybe a month or two and the very most.

What are your thoughts on the 5yr, 10yr and maybe 20yr, Sercial vs Malmsey vs Bual?

[scottfish]

I was never into wine before visiting Napa for the first time in September.

On one of our tastings, a young lady couldn't stop talking about how 2007 was the "perfect season" in Northern California.

Now I don't know squat. I like what doesn't make me cringe and pucker when I drink it and makes me feel good . I have, however tested the 2007 statement out and when in doubt grab an inexpensive 2007 California over anything else. I haven't been let down yet.

Is it true about '07 or am I just experiencing a placebo effect?

[hammondc]

Originally Posted by BC-Axeman

I just met a Paso Robles winemaker named David James at a cigar lounge (Perfecto) here. There is some kind of Syrah Days or something like that going on and he was exhibiting an '05 he made. He stopped in for a cigar and opened up a bottle for tasting. Very nice. Good mixture of oak, no brett and a smooth long finish. You never know who you will meet.

David James or Tobin James? A friend of mine brought me some Cab and Red Zin from Tobin James Winery in Paso Robles a while back. Some of the best stuff I have ever had. I wish I could get it in TX.

David. It didn't even occur to me to ask him if he was related. Even after he mentioned his winery was in the hills above Tobin James' place.

Originally Posted by scottfish

Is it true about '07 or am I just experiencing a placebo effect?

Do not adjust your palate, it's working fine

While not to be followed as gospel, vintage charts are a good way to get a 5000 ft view, you'll find 2007 was indeed a good year for cali.

http://enobytes.org/wine_blog/2011/0...-january-2011/

hth,

-innova

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlake

What are your thoughts on the 5yr, 10yr and maybe 20yr, Sercial vs Malmsey vs Bual?

Sercial is one of the driest styles of port. Malmsey is the sweetest and Bual is close to Malmsey. Sercial is not for everyone. Just as the Verdelho is on the dry side too.

5 years is not enough for Madeira for me. Broadbents 5 year is pretty good for that age, but if you can swing 10 year it's worth it.

There's not much for 20 year. 15 seems to be the next after 10. Broadbents 1996 Colheita is good too. I split a case with my accountant, but have not tried it yet. He likes it.

Originally Posted by BC-Axeman

I just met a Paso Robles winemaker named David James at a cigar lounge (Perfecto) here. There is some kind of Syrah Days or something like that going on and he was exhibiting an '05 he made. He stopped in for a cigar and opened up a bottle for tasting. Very nice. Good mixture of oak, no brett and a smooth long finish. You never know who you will meet.

Originally Posted by hammondc

David James or Tobin James? A friend of mine brought me some Cab and Red Zin from Tobin James Winery in Paso Robles a while back. Some of the best stuff I have ever had. I wish I could get it in TX.

Originally Posted by BC-Axeman

David. It didn't even occur to me to ask him if he was related. Even after he mentioned his winery was in the hills above Tobin James' place.

Hmm...
His name is David Cole. His winery is called James David Cellars. I have no idea where the "James" came from since his website calls out a whole bunch of family members and none are named James. Maybe his name is James David Cole. I always have a problem with two first names, keeping them straight.

[JohnnyFlake]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

Sercial is one of the driest styles of port. Malmsey is the sweetest and Bual is close to Malmsey. Sercial is not for everyone. Just as the Verdelho is on the dry side too.

5 years is not enough for Madeira for me. Broadbents 5 year is pretty good for that age, but if you can swing 10 year it's worth it.

There's not much for 20 year. 15 seems to be the next after 10. Broadbents 1996 Colheita is good too. I split a case with my accountant, but have not tried it yet. He likes it.

Thanks for you input.

I'm going to pick up a 10yr Bual and/or Verdeho this weekend to try. I have noticed you seem to like Broadbents. I am not sure if I can find that brand around my area (Henderson, Nevada). Blandy & Sandman are the most common. What others brands do you suggest?

Also, what is Colheita? Is that a brand or a style of Madeira?

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlake

Thanks for you input.

I'm going to pick up a 10yr Bual and/or Verdeho this weekend to try. I have noticed you seem to like Broadbents. I am not sure if I can find that brand around my area (Henderson, Nevada). Blandy & Sandman are the most common. What others brands do you suggest?

Also, what is Colheita? Is that a brand or a style of Madeira?

Broadbent is made by Justino which is a brand to look for, but Broadbent's blends are better for some reason. Justino is popular in New England. D'Oliveiras and Barbeito are real good names. RWC Historic Series is by Barbeito.

Blandy's Alvada is worth a blend of vintages.

Colheita means harvest and is usually like the vintage year. With Broadbent I am not sure what exactly the Colheita means. It is not a vintage Madeira as far as I know. Will have to visit their site. Broadbent Selections has a great portfolio of wine, port and madeira. Try to get your B&M to pick up some of their offerings.

[landhoney]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

There's not much for 20 year. 15 seems to be the next after 10.

Isn't this because at 21 years old it can be declared with a vintage date?

[rizzle]

I want to taste brett. Tell me a wine that has it and what to look for when I drink it.

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by rizzle

I want to taste brett. Tell me a wine that has it and what to look for when I drink it.

Beaucastel CdP or Pegau CdP tend to have it. Your luck, you'll score a perfect bottle without Brett showing, lol...

Imagine a barn yard taste similar to the same smell in a new box of cigars...

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by landhoney

Isn't this because at 21 years old it can be declared with a vintage date?

21 is not a recognized vintage. I think it's about 20 years for Madeira to be vintage. Would have to look it up to verify. It's much longer than for vintage port which is three years.

[landhoney]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

21 is not a recognized vintage. I think it's about 20 years for Madeira to be vintage. Would have to look it up to verify. It's much longer than for vintage port which is three years.

Yep, not sure why I thought it was 21, but I guess it is 20. In any case, I imagine the reason you don't see 20 year old Madeira listed as such is because once it gets that old they can put a vintage on it, correct?

[TheRiddick]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

Beaucastel CdP or Pegau CdP tend to have it. Your luck, you'll score a perfect bottle without Brett showing, lol...

Imagine a barn yard taste similar to the same smell in a new box of cigars...

There are no "perfect" bottles when it comes to Pegau and Beau, they simply may have "less" brett to show if properly stored in colder cellars, but they all have brett. Another good candidate is older Jaboulet (prior to mid to late '90s).

Best way is to decant these, brett gets nasty when mixed with air and "warmer" temps. Above wines are not cheap, BTW.

Another way is to go a beer supply and ask them for brett cultures, mix them with any wine of your choice, guys there should be able to give you instructions on how to innoculate a bottle of wine with brett, cheap and efficient. That might be your best bet at tasting same wine with and without brett (buy a cheap bottle of clean wine, say, a Fetzer/Beringer/Sebastiani red).

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by landhoney

Yep, not sure why I thought it was 21, but I guess it is 20. In any case, I imagine the reason you don't see 20 year old Madeira listed as such is because once it gets that old they can put a vintage on it, correct?

They may just keep it on hand in pipes to blend their 5-10-15 year Madeira too.

[landhoney]

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

Another way is to go a beer supply and ask them for brett cultures, mix them with any wine of your choice, guys there should be able to give you instructions on how to innoculate a bottle of wine with brett, cheap and efficient. That might be your best bet at tasting same wine with and without brett (buy a cheap bottle of clean wine, say, a Fetzer/Beringer/Sebastiani red).

Interesting idea, I like it. Easy to do a side by side comparison as well, but you forgot the waiting part, especially in a relatively (compared to unfermented beer) dry wine it will probably take at least a few weeks to show up in the taste, correct? I really have no idea as this method is pretty unique.

Also, if you go this route make sure the mixed culture does not contain Lactobacillus or Pediococcus, many of the mixed cultures that contain Brett for beer brewing contain one or both of these as well as a normal yeast strain. They sell the individual Brett strains on their own, but I think most all of the mixed cultures have Sacc, Lacto, and/or Pedio (Lambic Blend, Roeselare, Berliner Weisse, etc.)

[JohnnyFlake]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

21 is not a recognized vintage. I think it's about 20 years for Madeira to be vintage. Would have to look it up to verify. It's much longer than for vintage port which is three years.

I looked it up and for a Madeira to be considered as vintage, in modern times (?), it must spend a minimum of 20 years in a cask. Any anything older is also vintage and the longer the better it should be. In the old days (?) it was often left in a cask for as long as 30 and even 40 years. Very old Madeiras are considered impeccable wines.

(?), I have no idea what modern times or the old days mean, with respect to actual dates.

[mosesbotbol]

I bet there are pipes going back 100+ years that are still being bottled. The thing nice with vintage port is that the bottle is that old too.

[rizzle]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

Beaucastel CdP or Pegau CdP tend to have it. Your luck, you'll score a perfect bottle without Brett showing, lol...

Imagine a barn yard taste similar to the same smell in a new box of cigars...

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

There are no "perfect" bottles when it comes to Pegau and Beau, they simply may have "less" brett to show if properly stored in colder cellars, but they all have brett. Another good candidate is older Jaboulet (prior to mid to late '90s).

Best way is to decant these, brett gets nasty when mixed with air and "warmer" temps. Above wines are not cheap, BTW.

Another way is to go a beer supply and ask them for brett cultures, mix them with any wine of your choice, guys there should be able to give you instructions on how to innoculate a bottle of wine with brett, cheap and efficient. That might be your best bet at tasting same wine with and without brett (buy a cheap bottle of clean wine, say, a Fetzer/Beringer/Sebastiani red).

Originally Posted by landhoney

Interesting idea, I like it. Easy to do a side by side comparison as well, but you forgot the waiting part, especially in a relatively (compared to unfermented beer) dry wine it will probably take at least a few weeks to show up in the taste, correct? I really have no idea as this method is pretty unique.

Also, if you go this route make sure the mixed culture does not contain Lactobacillus or Pediococcus, many of the mixed cultures that contain Brett for beer brewing contain one or both of these as well as a normal yeast strain. They sell the individual Brett strains on their own, but I think most all of the mixed cultures have Sacc, Lacto, and/or Pedio (Lambic Blend, Roeselare, Berliner Weisse, etc.)

Man, y'all are getting all scientific with me now. I think I'd rather buy one than put on my Thomas Dolby hat and try to innoculate it myself, especially after reading the stuff Seth wrote...that cillus and coccus stuff sounds bad.

How "not cheap" is not cheap, Greg?

And thanks for the replies guys, I know it may sound like an odd request, but I'd like to know what this stuff is I keep hearing you guys talk about.