Why the big three bailout is a BAD idea

[houdini]

I own a business....Can I get a bailout if I mismanage and drive it to the ground?

NO BAILOUT - NO WAY.

[Da Klugs]

Originally Posted by piperman

Does anyone think that the union has any affect on this, I mean who pays a person 38 buck an hour to tighten four bolts.

Isn't that a days work for government plumbers? US Autoworker jobs fall far less into that category now than 25 years ago. The issue isn't that they don't work hard. Visit a plant sometime. The issue is that alternatives (Honda, Toyota, etc) offer more bang for the buck/quality etc. because they can produce better vehicles at a lower cost. A recipe for extinction unless something changes. What has to change is the retirement costs, wage costs, benefits and work rules. The last contract guaranteed continuing to pay workers when their plant closed fer Christ sake. All the things the unions have fought for and won for 40 years. They won!!! Unfortunately there has to be a viable business entity to pay them. It all flushes unless they (management, Labor and Retirees) agree to something sustainable.... a significant percentage less than now. Otherwise, any money given only for stalls the inevitable and they all eventually lose.

Originally Posted by houdini

I own a business....Can I get a bailout if I mismanage and drive it to the ground?

NO BAILOUT - NO WAY.

Same but it's tempting to try.

Dear Unkie Sam, so I've been boozed up in Costa rica for past 7 months, um can I get a few mil

it was a marketing error and i swear if it wasn't for the failing econ it would have worked.

A bail out as it sits is one big money pit if they dont restructure then to heck with them if the UAW is unwilling well get rid of them.

[AD720]

What is important to keep in mind, IMO, is that this a problem with further reaching impact than just the assebley line employees of Ford or GM. The tire manufactures, seat belts, air filters, nuts and bolts, salesmen, rental fleet companies...the list goes on and on. All of those companies and their employees would be effected by even one of the major automobile manufactures going under.

I want to be clear that I am not in favor of a "blank check" for the big three. There has to be some kind of restructuring.

I read that the average per/hour pay for a Ford employee is something like $70. And the average per/hour pay for a Toyota employee is something like $35. And I would be so bold as to say that many people would say that Toyota makes a superior vehicle. It seems pretty short sighted that people are not willing to give up a slice of the bread to be able to keep the rest of the loaf.

What it comes down to, to drastically over simplify things, is whether "we" (the royal we) bail out the auto industry now by restructuring the companies and turning them into something that is financially viable and continues to employ thousands of American workers or let the companies go under and put those thousands of workers out of work. And I would have to imagine that a large majority of those workers would need support from the government, in the form of unemployment or welfare or whatever.

The end result is going to be the same, money out of the goverment till. But one path to that is constructive. One is not.

All the "they F**Ked up" talk is totally accurate. Bad decisions were made that impacted the company. But that is done and no amount of finger pointing is going to solve the problem. The only thing to do is look forward and figure out a fix.

My , not that anyone asked.

[stitch]

Originally Posted by Drazzil

When things finally get bad enough to where people finally realize that they and their families are on the street, homeless, jobless, peniless, sick and in debt they will ask "How did I get here?" Americans will realize what has happened over the last thirty years and they will be ANGRY, they will have nothing left and if they want to survive they will have but one imperitive, and one choice. To revolt.

It's Far past Damn time for this ... But I don't think enough Americans have the will or the Backbone for it ... Let us hope.

[HK3-]

Originally Posted by piperman

Does anyone think that the union has any affect on this, I mean who pays a person 38 buck an hour to tighten four bolts.

Who pays a president who blows smoke and then has been back-peddling since he was elected.

Yes, the UAW needs to take a little cut.

Originally Posted by stitch

It's Far past Damn time for this ... But I don't think enough Americans have the will or the Backbone for it ... Let us hope.

Revolution!!!!!

[Genetic Defect]

and how many billions were used to bail out freddie and fannie

Let them go down. What good will it do to bail them out? Will they restructure their business? Who knows.

[gettysburgfreak]

I will never ever buy an American made car. I am sick and tired of CEO's that make a **** load of money while they make crappy ass cars and then have the balls to ask for money to help their asses. Maybe if they actually made cars that were decent and didnt have salaires that could buy a small country, they wouldnt be in this mess. You don't see great car makers such as Audi, BMW, or Mercedes having problems.

[Genetic Defect]

Originally Posted by gettysburgfreak

I will never ever buy an American made car. I am sick and tired of CEO's that make a **** load of money while they make crappy ass cars and then have the balls to ask for money to help their asses. Maybe if they actually made cars that were decent and didnt have salaires that could buy a small country, they wouldnt be in this mess. You don't see great car makers such as Audi, BMW, or Mercedes having problems.

VW has issues, all manufactures makes lemons

[Rockestone]

Unions=Bad for Business .

[floydpink]

I'm a little foggy on all the facts, but I understood this to be a low interest LOAN that the automakers will pay back. How, I don't know as less and less people seem to want to drive American cars.

I'm hypocritical as I frown on Japanese motorcycles, but have 2 Japanese automobiles in my garage that are leased and will be traded in for more Japanese cars when the lease is up.

Last Ford I had blew through 3 trannies before hitting 100k miles. My Japanese trucks and wife's car never need more than an oil change.

[Genetic Defect]

Originally Posted by Rockestone

Unions=Bad for Business .

Battle of the Overpass.

[gettysburgfreak]

Originally Posted by Big Vito

VW has issues, all manufactures makes lemons

Yea but you don't see any of them asking their governments to bail their asses out.

[BigFrank]

When the big three go bankrupt and end up being purchased by foreign companies, people will sing a different tune.

[Genetic Defect]

Originally Posted by BigFrank

When the big three go bankrupt and end up being purchased by foreign companies, people will sing a different tune.

I couldn't carry a tune in a bucket

Originally Posted by AD720

What is important to keep in mind, IMO, is that this a problem with further reaching impact than just the assebley line employees of Ford or GM. The tire manufactures, seat belts, air filters, nuts and bolts, salesmen, rental fleet companies...the list goes on and on. All of those companies and their employees would be effected by even one of the major automobile manufactures going under.

.

True a lot of people will lose there jobs, companies wont make the money they use too. But the others Toyota, Honda, etc based here in the US. will now have to produce more which creates more jobs, still need tires, nuts, bolt, parts more sales people the list goes on.

The big three need to decide what is more important to them staying in business or restructure like lower wages better cars. Thats all

[Genetic Defect]

and the circle continued