Aging Beer?

Originally Posted by icehog3

I would hardly consider two weeks to be "aging", Nate.

Yeah I know My point was the fresher the better for IPA's and pale ales. The hops used in IPA's lose a lot of character very quickly.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by ChicagoWhiteSox

Yeah I know My point was the fresher the better for IPA's and pale ales.

[Lumpold]

Beers that age well in bottles are the ones designed to age well in bottles! Most Belgian breweries will decant beers into casks or bottles, and then age them further, leaving an amount of yeast in the bottles to continue 'conditioning' the beer.

Originally Posted by Jbailey

Liquor does not age once it's been bottled (scotch, whiskey, etc.). Wine will continue to age in bottles and so will some beers.

Just thinking out loud here, but doesn't that depend upon how the alcohol is contained? Meaning a sealed bottle of scotch that is a 12 year scotch you bought in 2000 is not a 22 year old scotch now, however, if that bottle had been open the entire time, and oxygen had gotten into the liquor, then it undoubtedly would taste different from now and then, which is aging, kind of. That's the main reason that wine "ages" as it sits in your personal cellar and that scotch doesn't. Wine is closed with a cork, which allows air to travel in and out, which ages the wine as the oxygen breaks down the tannins. It's the basic theory behind why maturing wine in large format bottles is better long-term.

[Bill86]

Tom's right, unless you're getting your IPAs straight from the brewery.......even then who knows how long they sit. Now I got my Dreadnaught from the Three Floyds Brewery and it was the best thing ever at least IPA wise that I have tasted.

IMO aging = 1 year +. NOTE I did not say fully aged, for that you need 3 years .

[xlc12rf]

One of the most drastic changes I've tasted was Black Ops. A year on the bottle, brought the beer from 'good' to 'sell my soul - worthy'.

The only IPA I've had that was better with some age was 120 min.. and that isn't exactly a traditional IPA.

Aging right now I have some black ops, Brooklyn BCS, Bigfoot, Old school, Old Horizontal, WWS, Vertical Epics, IRS, Stout Trooper, Mosnter, Storm King, Double Bastard. That's all i can remember off the top of my head.

[Bill86]

I don't age beers, I drink them. I want to age them....but they are so tasty.....never happens. Someday I'll age a bunch of Imperial Stouts.

[BlackDog]

Regarding CWS oroginal post, Founder's Breakfast Stout is a coffee stout. Coffee stouts do not age well. The coffee fades.

However, many high abv beers do age well. The criteria for the "best" beers to age are that they are: 1) High ABV; 2) Do not depend upon fresh hop aromas for their flavor; and 3) Are bottle conditioned and not pasturized.

[LostAbbott]

I have about 10 beers aging right now one is a barley wine from 2005. Two are octoberfests from 2007 and 08. Then I have some bourbon barrel ages stuff porter and stout that both have a about two years on them. I tend or only age high alcohol content thick or dark ales. Anything else gets drunk fast.

[Jbailey]

Originally Posted by Kwilkinson

Just thinking out loud here, but doesn't that depend upon how the alcohol is contained? Meaning a sealed bottle of scotch that is a 12 year scotch you bought in 2000 is not a 22 year old scotch now

When you have a 12 year old (scotch, bourbon etc.) that's from it siting in barrels/casks aging for 12 years. After you remove liquor from barrels, casks etc it stops aging. In 10 years that bottle is still a 12 year old bottle of X.

The bottle might be 22 years old but liquor inside the bottle is still 12 years old X.

I will have to find where I read this and post it.

Originally Posted by Jbailey

When you have a 12 year old (scotch, bourbon etc.) that's from it siting in barrels/casks aging for 12 years. After you remove liquor from barrels, casks etc it stops aging. In 10 years that bottle is still a 12 year old bottle of X.

The bottle might be 22 years old but liquor inside the bottle is still 12 years old X.

I will have to find where I read this and post it.

I know that's true. But to "age" alcohol means to mature it. So while the scotch stops aging as in an age that can be put on the label, the liquor itself, once upon, begins maturing and will over time taste different.

[sobranie10]

This is the whole process in detail for Scotch making and why It stops aging when bottled.

http://www.whisky-distilleries.info/...ation_EN.shtml

[LostAbbott]

Originally Posted by Kwilkinson

I know that's true. But to "age" alcohol means to mature it. So while the scotch stops aging as in an age that can be put on the label, the liquor itself, once upon, begins maturing and will over time taste different.

Not true. I have had bottles that have been open for 10,20, and 30 years and tasted them side by side with a fresh bottle and besides small differences in batches they all pretty much tasted the same, (Laphroaig 10yr)

Whiskey specifically stops aging after it leaves the oak. My grandfather was a huge Connoisseur and had hundreds of bottles of scotches.

Hmm....interesting. That just seems counterintuitive to me for some reason.
Oh well, thanks for clearing that up guys.

[Sauer Grapes]

I agree and disagree with the thought that IPAs don't age well. Single IPAs, are almost always better fresh, but IIPAs and IIIPAs actually can age well. I wouldn't say they get better, just different. They will lose a lot of the hop characteristic, but some of them still become damn fine beers with aging.

[Jbailey]

Originally Posted by Sauer Grapes

I agree and disagree with the thought that IPAs don't age well. Single IPAs, are almost always better fresh, but IIPAs and IIIPAs actually can age well. I wouldn't say they get better, just different. They will lose a lot of the hop characteristic, but some of them still become damn fine beers with aging.

I will agree on the Founders Devil Dancer (triple ipa). I had them since May and they are drinking good. I might keep a few in the name of science.

[Sauer Grapes]

It'll be different. It does lose a lot of hoppiness, but usually IIPA and IIIPA have a lot of malt (and of course a lot of alcohol) and a lot of times they will turn into wonderful beers.

That being said, I generally prefer any IPA fresh (love the hops). It's just that I also like the taste of a lot of them aged.

Originally Posted by Kwilkinson

Hmm....interesting. That just seems counterintuitive to me for some reason.
Oh well, thanks for clearing that up guys.

I'm not a science guy and don't know the technicalities, but I look at it like this:

Both wine and beer have things going on side the bottle, once they are bottled, that whiskey does not. Once distilled the "cooking" part of the process is over for whiskey, any changes that occur after that are a result of the contact between the whiskey itself and the wooden barrels it's stored in. Once removed from the barrel that process ends. So no more aging, or changing of the flavor, is going to occur. There's nothing for the whiskey to react with in a glass bottle.

Beer and wine are different. There is live yeast in both of these, along with other ingredients. Those things continue to develop over time even inside of a sealed glass bottle. In the case of beer that's what James was referring to in "bottle-conditioned beers". The hops in beer will fade over time as well changing the flavor. Same process is occurring in wine, in addition to the wine reacting with the wooden barrels it's stored in. Once the wine is removed from the barrel it continues to change, because the ingredients in the wine itself are still present and evolving (or degrading).

I think a good example is also barrel aged beers and their counterparts. Goose Island Bourbon County stout is aged in Jack Daniels barrels, it has a VERY strong bourbon, oaky, etc taste to it because of that. Goose Island Night Stalker is the exact same beer without the barrel aging, and tastes very different. The difference comes from the barrel, remove the barrel, remove the differnce.

[Lautréamont]

I buy a case of Trader Joe's Vintage beer every year. It's brew by Unibroue usually in the style of a Belgium strong ale or Double. They age wonderfully and the improvement after a year is remarkable. I also love to age Hennipen, the Saison style brew from Ommegang. A year in the bottle does wonders to bring out complex floral notes.

[hammondc]

Originally Posted by ChicagoWhiteSox

I totally agree. Fresh is best with IPA's.

The only exception I know if it Dogfish Head 120Min IPA. BUT....that is a different kind of brew all together.