Cheap alternatives to "cigar" beads?

[Thrak]

I need some beads but dont look forward to spending that much money at this time. I've been using google and notice that people use kitty litter beads in their humidors, claiming that they do the same basic thing, even saying you can find specific Rh beads at the pet store!

Anyone know anything about this, or can lend some insight? This will be used in a 150ct humi, that is full and the 4 drimystat sticks just cant keep up during winter.

Thx!

[md4958]

do you really want to loose those 150 sticks because you want to save a couple dollars?? its not worth it in my opinion.

Contact Shilala, he will set you up with what you need and you wont regret it.

[dunng]

Originally Posted by md4958

do you really want to loose those 150 sticks because you want to save a couple dollars?? its not worth it in my opinion.

Contact Shilala, he will set you up with what you need and you wont regret it.

[roughrider]

Originally Posted by md4958

do you really want to loose those 150 sticks because you want to save a couple dollars?? its not worth it in my opinion.

Contact Shilala, he will set you up with what you need and you wont regret it.

+1. Pay the few bucks for the best beads out there and protect your investment.

[bobarian]

I dont get it. You are willing to spend hard earned money on your cigars, but not willing to spend $10-20 for an ounce or two of beads? Just doesnt make sense to me.

[Thrak]

You get a few oz of beads for $40 + shipping

or a few pounds of beads for $15.

Its quite a difference, especially if they do the same thing.

[bobarian]

Originally Posted by Thrak

You get a few oz of beads for $40 + shipping

or a few pounds of beads for $15.

Its quite a difference, especially if they do the same thing.

THEY DONT DO THE SAME THING! Kitty litter is meant to absorb cat pee! I think you need to do a bit of research. 2oz bead tubes are $15.99. If you are looking at something other than Heartfelt, Cigarmony or Shilala's beads you are looking at the wrong stuff.

[md4958]

Originally Posted by Thrak

You get a few oz of beads for $40 + shipping

or a few pounds of beads for $15.

Its quite a difference, especially if they do the same thing.

I really dont think they do. I dont have a cat, so I cant say first hand... but I dont think kitty litter RELEASES humidity?? Perhaps Im incorrect.

http://www.heartfeltindustries.com/products.asp?cat=14

Heartfelt beads cost around $18 for half a POUND, and Im sure you would only need a fraction of that! Shilala beads are similarly priced.

You can use the calculator on the Heartfelt site to get an idea of how many beads you need... just enter in your humi's dimensions and voila.

[Thrak]

I didnt expect the intense negativity here... just looking for an alternative. bobarian, cat pee = liquid = humidity.

they are made of the same stuff, what is the difference? Please educate me, nicely.

[md4958]

Originally Posted by Thrak

I didnt expect the intense negativity here... just looking for an alternative. bobarian, cat pee = liquid = humidity.

absorbing humidity is one thing. being able to absorb and release is entirely different, wouldnt you agree?

Originally Posted by Thrak

they are made of the same stuff, what is the difference? Please educate me, nicely.

Are they?? Shilalas beads are made from clay, not sure what Heartfelt beads are made of, but they are totaly different

[Don Fernando]

Originally Posted by Thrak

I didnt expect the intense negativity here... just looking for an alternative. bobarian, cat pee = liquid = humidity.

they are made of the same stuff, what is the difference? Please educate me, nicely.

they are not made of the same stuff. Cat litter only absorbes humidity, humidity beads absorb and release humidity depending on the RH of the humidor.

[bobarian]

I may have yelled, but I see absolutely no negativity in my statements. Do what you want. You are not the first person to have thought up this "solution" There are reasons most use beads, if you choose to use an alternative that is up to you.

[14holestogie]

Originally Posted by Thrak

I didnt expect the intense negativity here... just looking for an alternative. bobarian, cat pee = liquid = humidity.

they are made of the same stuff, what is the difference? Please educate me, nicely.

I don't think anyone is trying to be negative, I think they are speaking from experience. Cat litter absorbs humidity, it does not release it.

If you have only a few dollars invested in cigars, then cat litter may work for a short while. If you have a more sizable investment, all we're saying is protect that investment by spending a few bucks more to do it right.

I experimented with the crystal cat litter (unscented) a year or so ago. It does not remotely compare to a quality bead. We are not trying to line anyone's pockets here, but go to a reputable dealer for a reputable product.
I myself am the pround owner of 3 pounds of Shilala beads and will go nowhere else when I require more.

Do what you think is best, but I think the comments you see are the voices of experience.

[shilala]

Kitty Litter is not "the same thing" nor does it "do the same thing".
Funny thing is that not only does kitty litter not work in humis, it doesn't work as kitty litter. That's why it's discontinued. (It sizzles when cats pee on it and most refuse to use it.)
I've done tons of tests on all sorts of humidifying media and all the results have been posted at Club Stogie in the past.
It takes more than 9 times the volume and 9 times the surface area for kitty litter to even begin to compare to the efficacy of Mark's or Dave's beads.
It takes more than 17 times the volume and 17 times the surface area for the kitty litter to compete with my HCM beads.
The kitty litter costs about 15 bucks for 7 lbs. That's about $35.00 for 17 pounds. Shipping on 17 pounds is definately going to be at least 10 bucks.
A pound of my beads runs $45.00 shipped and they come in their own permanent bags.
So for the same price, you can either use 17 pounds of kitty litter or 1 pound of my beads.
You'll also have to arrange the kitty litter to bear enough surface area to be effective. You could use 2-8 ounce bags of my beads, or 34-8 oz. bags of kitty litter.
So I guess, if you want to generalize, silica gel kitty litter does do the same thing.
I've tried it, tested it, and found it worthless to me for the way I do things.
I use 5-8oz. bags of my beads in my winadors. I can't fit 42 bags of kitty litter in there.
Hope this helps you understand what "does the same thing" really means.
Good luck with whatever direction you choose!!!
Scott

[WyGuy]

You might want to take a look at watersorb, here's the link http://www.watersorb.com/prices.htm

I bought two pounds of it, and it seems to be doing the trick for the moment. However, I do plan on buying some of Shilala's beads eventually.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by WyGuy

You might want to take a look at watersorb, here's the link http://www.watersorb.com/prices.htm

I bought two pounds of it, and it seems to be doing the trick for the moment. However, I do plan on buying some of Shilala's beads eventually.

Watersorb is just SAP. It simply gives off and absorbs water, there's no control over RH levels. It won't adsorb water from the air once it's wetted, either. It only works in one direction, and that's to give off water.
If you hydrate it with a 50/50 propylene glycol solution then you can keep your RH at 70% in your humi.
You gotta supply ample surface area though, and that's tough when you have a big humi. It takes up a lot of floor space.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by shilala

Watersorb is just SAP. It simply gives off and absorbs water, there's no control over RH levels. It won't adsorb water from the air once it's wetted, either. It only works in one direction, and that's to give off water.
If you hydrate it with a 50/50 propylene glycol solution then you can keep your RH at 70% in your humi.
You gotta supply ample surface area though, and that's tough when you have a big humi. It takes up a lot of floor space.

I just read what I wrote, and left out a biggie.
"Propylene/water hydrated SAP doesn't adsorb water" is a large point.
If for some reason the ambient RH around a humi is greater than 70%, there's great potential for problems, especially if a humi is leaky.
If someone lived in Arizona or the desert or up in Siberia, it's an excellent choice because those humis require a lot of available water.

The reason Mark and Dave's beads work so well is that they have a component that regulates the water output (via principles you can see in a lot of papers, including those written about hydrated aqueous salt solutions and denatured alcohols), as well as an adsorbative component, which is the unhydrated silica gel.
When cared for properly, they'll regulate humidity in both directions, as they're intended to, and they'll do it very well.
That's why it's so important not to "overwater" the beads. If you do, you've effectively turned the beads into the same thing as a SAP/Glycol combination or worse. Too much water on the beads and you've basically created a bowl of water. That's why it is SO important to read the directions, follow them, and ask questions.
If we don't understand "how they work", it leaves a large margin for error, and we can easily undo the bead's efficacy.

My beads don't work quite like Mark's or Dave's. There's no salt or chemical component in them that regulates evaporation.
They rely on the principle of equilibrium, tons of math, and a well sealed humi. They also rely on a "care" regimen that's designed to remove human error. They also take advantage of an adsorbative capacity that's far in excess (greater than 800% per volume) that of Mark or Dave's beads.
By not having any additives, there's just more room. The structure of HCM beads is much different, too. That allows for a far greater amount of water to be present in them.
Their structure also allows a much higher covalency (electrical charge) that pushes water back and forth between the beads and their surroundings.
Another think is that HCM bead's internal structure allows for a much higher level of depracation, meaning they won't crack or break down over time. There's no reason why they won't last forever when maintained properly.
Add to that, the pores in the beads are too small for free hydrocarbons (cigar smells) to enter them, plugging the beads and reducing their effectiveness. The holes are just the right size to gather and store free ammonia, and they have an almost infinate capacity per volume to do so, making them ideal for aging cigars.

Which brings me around to a point...
There are tons of things that work. Some very well.
An individual's choice should involve where they live, how well their humi seals, how well they can (or want to) follow instructions, and education.
Sean made excellent points earlier. I could use his sweater and control the RH in my humidors using it, a bowl, some water, and salt.
I use my beads because it's easier.
If I weren't using my beads, I'd be using Mark's or Dave's.
I hope this helps!!!
Scott

[MedicCook]

I will be needing to get some of your beads soon Scott.

[gettysburgfreak]

you could always pick up a few drymistat tubes at 10 bucks a piece. I used them before I picked up some beads and they worked well. You do not want to skimp on humidification as others have said. Why spend all that money on cigars and have no adequate way of keeping them humidified?

[Mugen910]

just go to the devil site and get some beads on the cheap if you're worried about $$ but keep in mind that if your sticks don't maintain RH then you will eventually have to invest in some real beads.