Humidor woes with stabilization

LeoM · 01-14-2009, 11:28 AM

Hi guys,

I'm new to these forums (actually just stumbled across them today...glad I did

)

I'm hoping some of you could offer a little insight/advice.

I've slowly accumulated 4 300 count humis over the years and needed to finally pull the trigger and go big. So I purchased a cabinet style humi from CI about a month ago (Tower of Power-ish). The issue is, that no matter what I do I can't get the RH to even out throughout the humi.

For Humidification, a Hydra LG (suppposedly for up to 16 cub. ft.) with the additional fan kit and 3 small fans. It is positioned at the bottom of the humi.
Humidity stays at a constant 72% according to the hydrometer on the device, my digital (that is located at the top of the humi) reads 64.2%. I have calibrated the hydrometer on the Hydra.

I've tried moving the fans around (really don't think they do much) and this doesn't help. I added a variable speed fan to the top of the humi and have it running now, but that just seems to have made things worse. Now the bottom RH is ok, but the top is around 58%. The idea was to circulate the air from top to bottom to equalize (not seeming like such a great idea now).

So I'm a little stuck now. I'm thinking of adding beads to the humidor (probably should anyway for added stability) and/or replacing the Hydra with the Moistenair. I went to buy the Moistenair first but they were out of them and I "needed" something right then, so I got the Hydra (which I'm starting to hate).

I know this is a long post, thanks for reading and any assistance you can offer.

Silound · 01-14-2009, 12:23 PM

Humidity will sink lower obviously, because moisture in the air weighs more than the air around it.

Have you tried putting the Hydra more in the middle of the cabinet to balance it out? Are your fans blowing in a circular sequence (moving air up one side and down the other)?

I used some flexible plastic duct tubing to route the flow of moist air in my Vino from the Oasis at the bottom up to the top. I sealed the top end and drilled half inch holes along the length to allow moist air to flow out evenly at all heights.

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pro...roduct_id=8742

That's the hosing I used. Took longer to drill the holes in the soft plastic (ended up using a broom handle to stiffen it while I drilled) than it did to install it so that the Oasis blows directly up the tube (tube resting on the Oasis blow hole).

Edit to add that a HumidiFresh commercial humidifier is the absolute best you can do. Those are VERY capable machines that regulate humidity very well. The downside is the cost at $350 for the unit.

LeoM · 01-14-2009, 12:40 PM

I was thinking about moving it (the Hydra) to the middle. I think the issue might be the drawers in the middle that are blocking alot of air flow. I haven't heard of anyone who has the same unit having these issues though.

I like the idea of running the tubing and "venting" every so often, but don't think it'll work due to the shelving/drawers. I'll check the clearances tonight.

Thanks for the input!!

Silound · 01-14-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeoM

I was thinking about moving it (the Hydra) to the middle. I think the issue might be the drawers in the middle that are blocking alot of air flow. I haven't heard of anyone who has the same unit having these issues though.

I like the idea of running the tubing and "venting" every so often, but don't think it'll work due to the shelving/drawers. I'll check the clearances tonight.

Thanks for the input!!

If there's any clearance, you should be able to pull it off...that tubing is fairly flexible and can flatten out well enough to get around my Vino shelves in the back.

Agent11br · 01-14-2009, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silound

I used some flexible plastic duct tubing to route the flow of moist air in my Vino from the Oasis at the bottom up to the top. I sealed the top end and drilled half inch holes along the length to allow moist air to flow out evenly at all heights.

Pics or ban!

Maybe you could move it to the top/middle and then use beads at the bottom. As Silound stated, the humidity will sink and heat rises. The heat, especially right now with it being winter (if you are in a colder climate) is going to dry that thing up.

Totemic · 01-14-2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silound

Humidity will sink lower obviously, because moisture in the air weighs more than the air around it.

Uhh, no.
Humidity rises.
Earth's air is mostly made of Nitrogen (N2) and Oxygen (O2). The molecular weight of each is 28 & 32 respectively. Water is H2O, molecular weight is 18. Humid air will rise.

Silound · 01-14-2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Totemic

Uhh, no.
Humidity rises.
Earth's air is mostly made of Nitrogen (N2) and Oxygen (O2). The molecular weight of each is 28 & 32 respectively. Water is H2O, molecular weight is 18. Humid air will rise.

True in calculations under fixed conditions, not true in chemical applications. This is why good engineers who design dryers are so highly in demand.

Temperature, pressure, and agitation determine whether humid air rises or falls. In most cases, normal convection is often replicated in normal conditions at different temperature and pressures with still air. Agitation will cause a rise/fall to be more prominent in some conditions, while in others it will simply cause a state of confusion.

LeoM · 01-14-2009, 06:47 PM

Yeah, it took a little over a week to season it when I first got it. Running the humidifier and having a pan of water in the top that I kept re-filling.

I just got the holes drilled and three fans setup. I'm ordering another fan tomorrow. Just need to decide how I want to power the fourth, the Hydra is only rated for 3 fans i think.

Agent11br · 01-15-2009, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeoM

I just got the holes drilled and three fans setup. I'm ordering another fan tomorrow. Just need to decide how I want to power the fourth, the Hydra is only rated for 3 fans i think.

I'd snag an old power supply from a computer and hook up computer fans to it and then put them on a timer.

You could also splice into one of the fans and run two of them in series unless that is how it is already setup. Someone with more knowledge on the Hydra fan kits would know better though.

Footbag · 01-14-2009, 12:53 PM

I have the Verona style cabinet humidor which also has the drawers in the center. When I purchased my humidifier, an Avallo, I was considering a Hydra. I was warned that I would have exactly the problem that you were referring to.

I ended up with an Avallo with two cans and two backup fans. The only thing I could suggest for you would be to consider more fans or better fan positioning. You may be able to move enough air to stabilize it, but it would take some placement trial and error. Otherwise, you may have to consider another humidifier.

68TriShield · 01-14-2009, 01:01 PM

You can also buy a active humidification system like Oasis or set and forget from Aristocrat.
That is if you get frustrated with what you have.

01-14-2009, 03:36 PM

I have a TOP. I use the Habitat evaporative humidifier with the monitor. I put the humidifier right above the shelves. There is enough room behind the drawers for the air to move. I drilled 1 1\2 holes in the corners on the shelves above and below the drawers and attached 4 fans 2 blow the air up on the right side and 2 blow the air down on the left side. I have perfect humidity throughout. It's been 4 or 5 years now. My humidifier hardly ever comes on. I fill it maybe three times a year at most.

Here is a pic before I moved the humidifier above the shelves and before I added two more fans on the right side blowing the air in the opposite direction. Before that I had the same problem. Hope this helps.......

LeoM · 01-14-2009, 03:55 PM

That sounds like the best option yet! I'll give that a whirl tonight when I get home. Seems to make sense as I'm sure the drawers are what's causing the "bottleneck".

Thanks!! I"ll report back the results.

01-14-2009, 04:44 PM

Good luck....It takes a good while to season as well. I put a bowl of distilled water in the top and bottom for about a week. The fuller it is the better also....

LeoM · 01-15-2009, 05:46 PM

That's not a bad idea. I'll have to put it together and post it up. Probably this weekend before I get it all together. Maybe someone can find some useful info......

LeoM · 01-20-2009, 02:42 PM

Ok, fans are all in. Wiring done. It's stabilizing quite nicely at 68% throughout!!! Thanks for the advise. I took pics and will write up something in the next couple of days in case anyone wants the info.

Agent11br · 01-20-2009, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeoM

Ok, fans are all in. Wiring done. It's stabilizing quite nicely at 68% throughout!!! Thanks for the advise. I took pics and will write up something in the next couple of days in case anyone wants the info.

Looking forward to seeing the pics and write-up! glad it's working out for you!

01-20-2009, 08:17 PM

This is a great idea. I usually recommend the beads in addition to a cigar oasis or hydra for all my cabinets but for tech-minded individuals I am going to start suggesting this.

NICE JOB!

LeoM · 01-21-2009, 12:11 PM

Ok, so here's the basics:

The whole purpose of this was to increase/improve air circulation as to even out the RH of the humidor. The issue I was experiencing was that the top half of the humi would always have a little lower RH than the bottom. While I'm still going to add beads for more stability, this is what I came up with to equalize everything.

Here’s the parts list I used:

2 x Zalman Fan Multi-Connector Cable ZM-MC1 (for connecting two fans to one molex power connector, these will allow you to hook the fans up to
either 5V or 12V, I connected to the 12V)

4 x Zalman 30" Extension Cable ZM-EC1 (to extend the power cables on the fans, it turns out I only needed two, for the top fans)

4 x Scythe Mini Kaze Quiet Computer Fan 40mm x 10mm (these move about 4.7 CFM and are silent, you can turn it up a notch and use the 12 CFM fans, but they are a little noisey)

1 x AC to molex power adaptor (basically a wall plug that has connectors for computer-type plugs)

1 x Molex power splitter (so you can connect the (2) ZM-MC1’s to provide power for all 4 fans)

Here we are with the drawers removed and 4, 1.5" holes drilled in the back (top and bottom) of the section. I just used a 1.5” hole saw/drill to make the holes.

This is with the 4x40mm fans mounted and the beginning of the wiring. The two on the left are set for airflow moving up, and the two on the right are set for down. The two chambers are separated (left and right) so there’s no chance for airflow “bleeding” or vortexing in the drawer chamber. For wire management I just used removable/adhesive clips rather than pre-drilling holes for screws. I may change it at some time, but this was more to make sure it would work before making it permanent. You’ll see where I used the two extension cables on the the two upper fans.

This one is just another shot of the fans/wiring with a slightly closer view.

(continued on next post)

LeoM · 01-21-2009, 12:12 PM

(Continuation from last post)

This is after the wiring, down where the power will be tied in and the Hydra will be located.

Here we are finished up right before connecting the power and setting up the Hydra. It may not be the neatest setup, but it’s all hidden from view behind the Hydra (which is turned 90 degrees from the way it’s positioned in the pic).
Now my RH is rock solid 68% troughout even without beads ( which I am going to add for stability, and to take the load off the Hydra). Up until I did this, I was ready to throw the hydra in a drawer (as an emergency backup) and get a Moistnaire as I didn’t think it could get the job done.
Hopefully this is useful to someone (I’m not an expert at any of this, but it’s what I did). I know this write up is a little rough, but it’s the best I could do quickly.

01-14-2009, 11:28 AM	#1
LeoM "Say what again!" Join Date: Jan 2009 First Name: Leo Location: Passed out under an Agave Posts: 690 Trading: (87)	Humidor woes with stabilization Hi guys, I'm new to these forums (actually just stumbled across them today...glad I did ) I'm hoping some of you could offer a little insight/advice. I've slowly accumulated 4 300 count humis over the years and needed to finally pull the trigger and go big. So I purchased a cabinet style humi from CI about a month ago (Tower of Power-ish). The issue is, that no matter what I do I can't get the RH to even out throughout the humi. For Humidification, a Hydra LG (suppposedly for up to 16 cub. ft.) with the additional fan kit and 3 small fans. It is positioned at the bottom of the humi. Humidity stays at a constant 72% according to the hydrometer on the device, my digital (that is located at the top of the humi) reads 64.2%. I have calibrated the hydrometer on the Hydra. I've tried moving the fans around (really don't think they do much) and this doesn't help. I added a variable speed fan to the top of the humi and have it running now, but that just seems to have made things worse. Now the bottom RH is ok, but the top is around 58%. The idea was to circulate the air from top to bottom to equalize (not seeming like such a great idea now). So I'm a little stuck now. I'm thinking of adding beads to the humidor (probably should anyway for added stability) and/or replacing the Hydra with the Moistenair. I went to buy the Moistenair first but they were out of them and I "needed" something right then, so I got the Hydra (which I'm starting to hate). I know this is a long post, thanks for reading and any assistance you can offer.

01-14-2009, 12:23 PM	#2
Silound ex-CS Swamp Gorilla Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Somewhere in a swamp, south of sanity Posts: 802 Trading: (15)	Re: Humidor woes with stabilization Humidity will sink lower obviously, because moisture in the air weighs more than the air around it. Have you tried putting the Hydra more in the middle of the cabinet to balance it out? Are your fans blowing in a circular sequence (moving air up one side and down the other)? I used some flexible plastic duct tubing to route the flow of moist air in my Vino from the Oasis at the bottom up to the top. I sealed the top end and drilled half inch holes along the length to allow moist air to flow out evenly at all heights. http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pro...roduct_id=8742 That's the hosing I used. Took longer to drill the holes in the soft plastic (ended up using a broom handle to stiffen it while I drilled) than it did to install it so that the Oasis blows directly up the tube (tube resting on the Oasis blow hole). Edit to add that a HumidiFresh commercial humidifier is the absolute best you can do. Those are VERY capable machines that regulate humidity very well. The downside is the cost at $350 for the unit. __________________ Back in black, and better than ever! You can't keep a good gorilla down! LSU Geaux Tigers! Last edited by Silound; 01-14-2009 at 12:26 PM. Reason: Edit extra info

01-14-2009, 12:40 PM	#3
LeoM "Say what again!" Join Date: Jan 2009 First Name: Leo Location: Passed out under an Agave Posts: 690 Trading: (87)	Re: Humidor woes with stabilization I was thinking about moving it (the Hydra) to the middle. I think the issue might be the drawers in the middle that are blocking alot of air flow. I haven't heard of anyone who has the same unit having these issues though. I like the idea of running the tubing and "venting" every so often, but don't think it'll work due to the shelving/drawers. I'll check the clearances tonight. Thanks for the input!!

01-14-2009, 06:47 PM	#8
LeoM "Say what again!" Join Date: Jan 2009 First Name: Leo Location: Passed out under an Agave Posts: 690 Trading: (87)	Re: Humidor woes with stabilization Yeah, it took a little over a week to season it when I first got it. Running the humidifier and having a pan of water in the top that I kept re-filling. I just got the holes drilled and three fans setup. I'm ordering another fan tomorrow. Just need to decide how I want to power the fourth, the Hydra is only rated for 3 fans i think.

01-14-2009, 12:53 PM	#10
Footbag I Need My Space Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Adam Location: NEPA Posts: 1,216 Trading: (7)	Re: Humidor woes with stabilization I have the Verona style cabinet humidor which also has the drawers in the center. When I purchased my humidifier, an Avallo, I was considering a Hydra. I was warned that I would have exactly the problem that you were referring to. I ended up with an Avallo with two cans and two backup fans. The only thing I could suggest for you would be to consider more fans or better fan positioning. You may be able to move enough air to stabilize it, but it would take some placement trial and error. Otherwise, you may have to consider another humidifier.

01-14-2009, 01:01 PM	#11
68TriShield Got Torque? Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Dave Location: Maryland Posts: 7,194 Trading: (40)	Re: Humidor woes with stabilization You can also buy a active humidification system like Oasis or set and forget from Aristocrat. That is if you get frustrated with what you have.

01-14-2009, 03:36 PM	#12
sli38 Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Humidor woes with stabilization I have a TOP. I use the Habitat evaporative humidifier with the monitor. I put the humidifier right above the shelves. There is enough room behind the drawers for the air to move. I drilled 1 1\2 holes in the corners on the shelves above and below the drawers and attached 4 fans 2 blow the air up on the right side and 2 blow the air down on the left side. I have perfect humidity throughout. It's been 4 or 5 years now. My humidifier hardly ever comes on. I fill it maybe three times a year at most. Here is a pic before I moved the humidifier above the shelves and before I added two more fans on the right side blowing the air in the opposite direction. Before that I had the same problem. Hope this helps....... Last edited by sli38; 01-14-2009 at 03:42 PM.

01-14-2009, 03:55 PM	#13
LeoM "Say what again!" Join Date: Jan 2009 First Name: Leo Location: Passed out under an Agave Posts: 690 Trading: (87)	Re: Humidor woes with stabilization That sounds like the best option yet! I'll give that a whirl tonight when I get home. Seems to make sense as I'm sure the drawers are what's causing the "bottleneck". Thanks!! I"ll report back the results.

01-14-2009, 04:44 PM	#14
sli38 Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Humidor woes with stabilization Good luck....It takes a good while to season as well. I put a bowl of distilled water in the top and bottom for about a week. The fuller it is the better also....

01-15-2009, 05:46 PM	#15
LeoM "Say what again!" Join Date: Jan 2009 First Name: Leo Location: Passed out under an Agave Posts: 690 Trading: (87)	Re: Humidor woes with stabilization That's not a bad idea. I'll have to put it together and post it up. Probably this weekend before I get it all together. Maybe someone can find some useful info......

01-20-2009, 02:42 PM	#16
LeoM "Say what again!" Join Date: Jan 2009 First Name: Leo Location: Passed out under an Agave Posts: 690 Trading: (87)	Re: Humidor woes with stabilization Ok, fans are all in. Wiring done. It's stabilizing quite nicely at 68% throughout!!! Thanks for the advise. I took pics and will write up something in the next couple of days in case anyone wants the info.

01-20-2009, 08:17 PM	#18
pmp Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Humidor woes with stabilization This is a great idea. I usually recommend the beads in addition to a cigar oasis or hydra for all my cabinets but for tech-minded individuals I am going to start suggesting this. NICE JOB!

01-21-2009, 12:11 PM	#19
LeoM "Say what again!" Join Date: Jan 2009 First Name: Leo Location: Passed out under an Agave Posts: 690 Trading: (87)	Re: Humidor woes with stabilization Ok, so here's the basics: The whole purpose of this was to increase/improve air circulation as to even out the RH of the humidor. The issue I was experiencing was that the top half of the humi would always have a little lower RH than the bottom. While I'm still going to add beads for more stability, this is what I came up with to equalize everything. Here’s the parts list I used: 2 x Zalman Fan Multi-Connector Cable ZM-MC1 (for connecting two fans to one molex power connector, these will allow you to hook the fans up to either 5V or 12V, I connected to the 12V) 4 x Zalman 30" Extension Cable ZM-EC1 (to extend the power cables on the fans, it turns out I only needed two, for the top fans) 4 x Scythe Mini Kaze Quiet Computer Fan 40mm x 10mm (these move about 4.7 CFM and are silent, you can turn it up a notch and use the 12 CFM fans, but they are a little noisey) 1 x AC to molex power adaptor (basically a wall plug that has connectors for computer-type plugs) 1 x Molex power splitter (so you can connect the (2) ZM-MC1’s to provide power for all 4 fans) Here we are with the drawers removed and 4, 1.5" holes drilled in the back (top and bottom) of the section. I just used a 1.5” hole saw/drill to make the holes. This is with the 4x40mm fans mounted and the beginning of the wiring. The two on the left are set for airflow moving up, and the two on the right are set for down. The two chambers are separated (left and right) so there’s no chance for airflow “bleeding” or vortexing in the drawer chamber. For wire management I just used removable/adhesive clips rather than pre-drilling holes for screws. I may change it at some time, but this was more to make sure it would work before making it permanent. You’ll see where I used the two extension cables on the the two upper fans. This one is just another shot of the fans/wiring with a slightly closer view. (continued on next post)

01-21-2009, 12:12 PM	#20
LeoM "Say what again!" Join Date: Jan 2009 First Name: Leo Location: Passed out under an Agave Posts: 690 Trading: (87)	Re: Humidor woes with stabilization (Continuation from last post) This is after the wiring, down where the power will be tied in and the Hydra will be located. Here we are finished up right before connecting the power and setting up the Hydra. It may not be the neatest setup, but it’s all hidden from view behind the Hydra (which is turned 90 degrees from the way it’s positioned in the pic). Now my RH is rock solid 68% troughout even without beads ( which I am going to add for stability, and to take the load off the Hydra). Up until I did this, I was ready to throw the hydra in a drawer (as an emergency backup) and get a Moistnaire as I didn’t think it could get the job done. Hopefully this is useful to someone (I’m not an expert at any of this, but it’s what I did). I know this write up is a little rough, but it’s the best I could do quickly.