Conservagel issues

jesseboston81 · 03-06-2011, 05:41 PM

So the Conservagel in my new wineador is giving me some problems and I'm curious to hear your opinions as to whether this is just a fault of the Conservagel or if there is something I can do to fix things. I bought the 65% Conservagel in an effort to keep my budget low, but RH in my wineador is currently 68% on top and 74% at the bottom. I understand that, unless I have fans, RH will be higher on the bottom than on the top, but it puzzles me that the entire range is above 65%. I've got 2 pounds in there in 4 half-pound mesh bags, 2 bags at the top corners and 2 at the bottom corners. If it helps, I seasoned some new trays and shelves that I got from Forrest (GolfNut) just the other day by using hot water, but I removed the Conservagel during this process. Could I have over-seasoned the wood? Any other suggestions? Or do I just need to scrap the Conservagel, chalk things up to not doing it right the first time, and get some "real" beads?

Bill86 · 03-06-2011, 05:45 PM

I do not know what conservagel is but if it is indeed a "gel" I had a horrible time with that stuff. It doesn't control RH well and is just a HUGE PITA. I would get real beads. Explain seasoning with hot water? I always heard you used distilled water, never heard anything about hot water.

OLS · 03-07-2011, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill86

I do not know what conservagel is but if it is indeed a "gel" I had a horrible time with that stuff. It doesn't control RH well and is just a HUGE PITA.

Haha, like BEADS AREN'T? I am joking of course, and not everyone is as dumb as me, I tend to put
cups of them in my ice chest since I only have a few bags and I am lazy. It does not matter
how careful I am I always spill the container. When I play Tetris, I hear Crunch, Crunch,
crunch, lol. I might get some bags today at the fish store.

jesseboston81 · 03-06-2011, 05:48 PM

I've never seen Heartfelt or shilala's beads, but Conservagel seems to be pretty close to what I imagine those are like. It's not an actual gel, but it's chunks of silica gel. By seasoning with hot water I meant running the tap at a hot setting and putting a bowl of that hot water in the wineador.

bscottskangum · 03-06-2011, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesseboston81

By seasoning with hot water I meant running the tap at a hot setting and putting a bowl of that hot water in the wineador.

Eek...distilled water brother

jesseboston81 · 03-06-2011, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bscottskangum

Eek...distilled water brother

I've heard this a lot, and I understand how the impurities in nondistilled water can mess with someone's humidification system of choice, but I'm confused about how tap water versus distilled water makes any difference when using nothing other than simple evaporation to transfer moisture from water in a dish to air/wood. I mean, it's only the pure water that evaporates, right?

bscottskangum · 03-06-2011, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesseboston81

I've heard this a lot, and I understand how the impurities in nondistilled water can mess with someone's humidification system of choice, but I'm confused about how tap water versus distilled water makes any difference when using nothing other than simple evaporation to transfer moisture from water in a dish to air/wood. I mean, it's only the pure water that evaporates, right?

I would be more concerned with the chemicals that are in the water affecting your cigars over time, plus tap water could encourage mold growth

CigarNut · 03-07-2011, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesseboston81

I've heard this a lot, and I understand how the impurities in nondistilled water can mess with someone's humidification system of choice, but I'm confused about how tap water versus distilled water makes any difference when using nothing other than simple evaporation to transfer moisture from water in a dish to air/wood. I mean, it's only the pure water that evaporates, right?

It's not the evapuration part of the equation that's the problem -- it's the water that your gel (or beads) are sitting in. The imurities and spores in some tap water (even chlorinated water) can cause mold (or algae, moss, etc.) growth in your media (gel in this case).

jesseboston81 · 03-07-2011, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CigarNut

It's not the evapuration part of the equation that's the problem -- it's the water that your gel (or beads) are sitting in. The imurities and spores in some tap water (even chlorinated water) can cause mold (or algae, moss, etc.) growth in your media (gel in this case).

I understand, like I said, how tap water can mess with the humidification system of choice--gel, beads, etc. But if I just put a bowl of tap water in my humi to season the wood through straight evaporation and then take it out, could that cause problems?

for belaboring this point, but I'm confused about the science.

markem · 03-06-2011, 05:52 PM

A couple things to think about:

1. RH meter calibration. 68% on the meter is within tolerances for most meters even if the true RH is 65%. It may just be that for your meter, you have to subtract about 3% (at this time, next calibration, it may change)

2. 65% beads can really be anything from about 62-68%. If the beads are not showing as full of moisture, then you can assume that the humidity isn't really much more than about 1/2% or so above their set point.

3. If the sticks are smoking well, don't mess with it. Well smoking sticks are what you are looking for and it is way more important to just note that, for your tastes and this specific meter, when it reads 68% you are happy. Don't mess with happy. I know you know this, I just like hearing myself talk.

4. If you have a spot that is above on RH (I base it on bead condition normally), move some drier beads there and move the wetter beads to another location. This type of rotation can be done as often as needed without harm.

Vertical is a real pain in terms of keeping RH controlled. I'm finding that with a 5.5' tall humidor myself. I wish you all the best.

jesseboston81 · 03-06-2011, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markem

1. RH meter calibration. 68% on the meter is within tolerances for most meters even if the true RH is 65%. It may just be that for your meter, you have to subtract about 3% (at this time, next calibration, it may change)

2. 65% beads can really be anything from about 62-68%. If the beads are not showing as full of moisture, then you can assume that the humidity isn't really much more than about 1/2% or so above their set point.

Thanks for the help. I hadn't considered margins of error. I guess if both the gel and the hygrometers are running at the top of a +/- 2% MOE, the hygrometer could be showing something even as high as 69% and things would still be within "acceptable parameters."

markem · 03-06-2011, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesseboston81

Thanks for the help. I hadn't considered margins of error. I guess if both the gel and the hygrometers are running at the top of a +/- 2% MOE, the hygrometer could be showing something even as high as 69% and things would still be within "acceptable parameters."

yep. I've been there many times and have thrown away beads, dumped gel down the drain, and done all manner of insane things just because I didn't remember that the 65% number is followed by that dammed +/-

Mind you, I still make that mistake, but I have 30 years of "how could I forget that margin thingy" to fall back on.

I think that it was when I was hanging with MoTheMan one SoCal and he flat stated, "who cares what the meter reads, care about how the cigar smokes" that I finally got a clue.

03-06-2011, 09:43 PM

Good insight! I too have been all over the place before I realized that all you need are some 65% beads and a $30.00 cooler!

03-07-2011, 09:19 PM

A gallon of DW is $0.99,

and will last you a year.................

03-06-2011, 05:41 PM	#1
jesseboston81 CC Simple PIF Promoter Join Date: Dec 2010 First Name: Jesse Location: Londonderry, NH Posts: 2,231 Trading: (41)	Conservagel issues So the Conservagel in my new wineador is giving me some problems and I'm curious to hear your opinions as to whether this is just a fault of the Conservagel or if there is something I can do to fix things. I bought the 65% Conservagel in an effort to keep my budget low, but RH in my wineador is currently 68% on top and 74% at the bottom. I understand that, unless I have fans, RH will be higher on the bottom than on the top, but it puzzles me that the entire range is above 65%. I've got 2 pounds in there in 4 half-pound mesh bags, 2 bags at the top corners and 2 at the bottom corners. If it helps, I seasoned some new trays and shelves that I got from Forrest (GolfNut) just the other day by using hot water, but I removed the Conservagel during this process. Could I have over-seasoned the wood? Any other suggestions? Or do I just need to scrap the Conservagel, chalk things up to not doing it right the first time, and get some "real" beads? __________________ Come play in the CC Simple PIF!

03-06-2011, 05:45 PM	#2
Bill86 Snob Join Date: Jul 2010 First Name: Bill Posts: 6,704 Trading: (67)	Re: Conservagel issues I do not know what conservagel is but if it is indeed a "gel" I had a horrible time with that stuff. It doesn't control RH well and is just a HUGE PITA. I would get real beads. Explain seasoning with hot water? I always heard you used distilled water, never heard anything about hot water.

03-06-2011, 05:48 PM	#4
jesseboston81 CC Simple PIF Promoter Join Date: Dec 2010 First Name: Jesse Location: Londonderry, NH Posts: 2,231 Trading: (41)	Re: Conservagel issues I've never seen Heartfelt or shilala's beads, but Conservagel seems to be pretty close to what I imagine those are like. It's not an actual gel, but it's chunks of silica gel. By seasoning with hot water I meant running the tap at a hot setting and putting a bowl of that hot water in the wineador. __________________ Come play in the CC Simple PIF!

03-06-2011, 05:52 PM	#10
markem Bunion Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Mark Location: Second Star on the Right Posts: 22,625 Trading: (47)	Re: Conservagel issues A couple things to think about: 1. RH meter calibration. 68% on the meter is within tolerances for most meters even if the true RH is 65%. It may just be that for your meter, you have to subtract about 3% (at this time, next calibration, it may change) 2. 65% beads can really be anything from about 62-68%. If the beads are not showing as full of moisture, then you can assume that the humidity isn't really much more than about 1/2% or so above their set point. 3. If the sticks are smoking well, don't mess with it. Well smoking sticks are what you are looking for and it is way more important to just note that, for your tastes and this specific meter, when it reads 68% you are happy. Don't mess with happy. I know you know this, I just like hearing myself talk. 4. If you have a spot that is above on RH (I base it on bead condition normally), move some drier beads there and move the wetter beads to another location. This type of rotation can be done as often as needed without harm. Vertical is a real pain in terms of keeping RH controlled. I'm finding that with a 5.5' tall humidor myself. I wish you all the best. __________________ I refuse to belong to any organization that would have me as a member. ~ Groucho Marx

03-06-2011, 09:43 PM	#13
thecatch83 Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Conservagel issues Good insight! I too have been all over the place before I realized that all you need are some 65% beads and a $30.00 cooler!

03-07-2011, 09:19 PM	#14
thecatch83 Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Conservagel issues A gallon of DW is $0.99, and will last you a year.................