Most complex and dynamic regular production smoke

weak_link · 12-04-2010, 02:23 PM

What's the most dynamic or complex regular production smoke you've had recently? I really enjoy cigars with distinct changes throughout the cigar and curious what's good right now. Been smoking pretty much the same stuff for the past year or so and be curious to try some new things.

No one note wonders in this thread, I'm really interested in smokes that taste one way at the beginning and end up tasting like a different smoke by the end.

bishjd123 · 12-04-2010, 02:31 PM

I had a Davidoff Special R. The flavors changed about five times. It was almost hard to keep up with the changes. There was a point in the middle that I distinctly remember; the taste of black licorice. For me, that’s been the most complex cigar in my short time in the hobby.

akumushi · 12-04-2010, 02:41 PM

It's hard to find that kind of complexity outside of Habanos, IMO. The few NCs I've had that are good, complex and change remarkably from start to finish have pretty much all been limited editions of some sort. The LP Flying Pig, Tat SW Reserva Maduro, and Tat Boris all come to mind. However, if you want to make the most of an NC line you like, the shape and size of the vitola you choose has a lot to do with the way a cigar develops and changes its "tonal color" as you smoke. If you're looking for the most difference from start to finish in any particular line of cigars, the perfecto and figurado are a good place to start. The shape and changing ring gauge guarantee a changing ratio of filler, binder and wrapper, which leads to a change in even the most basic blend. Also, I find that most churchills and DCs change a bit simply because of the physics of the cigar, from light and faint in the beginning to richer and darker at the end. Lanceros also do this to a lesser extent. Stay away from petit robustos, robustos and toros, if you're looking for dynamics. I find that their short length and wide girth actually makes them much more consistant in flavor from start to finish. They can still be complex, in the sense that you get many layers of flavor at once, but this profile tends to remain consistant throughout the cigar.
If you have access to Habanos, the list is pretty much endless, as anything but the cheapest tripa cortas will develop somewhat from start to finish, with some of the Churchills and DCs being real rollercoaster rides. Partagas, H Upman, Ramon Allones and Bolivar all have very strong basic blends that provide a lot of variety, wheras the lighter marcas like Quai D'Orsay and Hoyo De Monterey can be a little less dynamic.

weak_link · 12-04-2010, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akumushi

If you have access to Habanos,

That's almost all I smoke but wanted to see if there is anything interesting on the NC side.

Salvelinus · 12-05-2010, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akumushi

Stay away from petit robustos, robustos and toros, if you're looking for dynamics. I find that their short length and wide girth actually makes them much more consistant in flavor from start to finish. They can still be complex, in the sense that you get many layers of flavor at once, but this profile tends to remain consistant throughout the cigar.

But Clayton, that's the sweet spot. It's the only spot worth smoking

pinotguy · 12-04-2010, 02:58 PM

To piggy-back on akumushi's thoughts, I'd say the two smokes that fit what you're looking for would be both of the Tatuaje RC's. These are both (giant) perfectos and, to me, have to be considered some of the most complex NC's out there. They are big, to be sure, and require a definite time commitment but are most rewarding.

thegoldenmackid · 12-04-2010, 03:22 PM

Opus with five years...? ISOMs are always going to win this one IMO.

Adriftpanda · 12-04-2010, 03:28 PM

Is this what you do when you flake on herfing? Bish, Eric!

weak_link · 12-04-2010, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adriftpanda

Is this what you do when you flake on herfing? Bish, Eric!

It's not flaking if I never said I was going bish!! Got the kiddo today and couldn't get a sitter so I could come play.

jimmyk26 · 12-04-2010, 03:29 PM

There are two that come to mind for me:
1. Davidoff Maduros
2. LP #9

If you are in the mood for an NC maduro, you'll never go wrong with those two. Not that you are specifically asking for a maduro cigar, I just think that if you are considering the most complex NC's these are the two that immediately come to mind.

akumushi · 12-04-2010, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyk26

There are two that come to mind for me:
1. Davidoff Maduros
2. LP #9

If you are in the mood for an NC maduro, you'll never go wrong with those two. Not that you are specifically asking for a maduro cigar, I just think that if you are considering the most complex NC's these are the two that immediately come to mind.

I'm generally not a huge maduro fan, but I have also noticed that the maduro wrapped NCs are generally more complex than their natural counterparts.

tsolomon · 12-04-2010, 04:13 PM

Have you tried the Illusione HL or the Tatauaje Especiales? I find these two lanceros to be complex cigars that I always enjoy from start to finish. I still try a lot of different NCs looking for complex and dynamic and I would suggest trying some of the Viajes cigars. I like the 50/50 and the Platino lancero.

weak_link · 12-04-2010, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsolomon

Have you tried the Illusione HL or the Tatauaje Especiales? I find these two lanceros to be complex cigars that I always enjoy from start to finish. I still try a lot of different NCs looking for complex and dynamic and I would suggest trying some of the Viajes cigars. I like the 50/50 and the Platino lancero.

Those are some of my favorite NC's, nice taste you've got there!

MiamiE · 12-04-2010, 05:05 PM

Great post Clayton!

icehog3 · 12-04-2010, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiamiE

Great post Clayton!

Absolutely.

Ismith75 · 12-04-2010, 09:08 PM

V Figurado

ninjavanish · 12-04-2010, 09:32 PM

I honestly feel like you guys are overlooking some of the standard cigars...

Obviously Cremosa is the most complex cigar of all.

weak_link · 12-04-2010, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninjavanish

I honestly feel like you guys are overlooking some of the standard cigars...

Obviously Cremosa is the most complex cigar of all.

While notes of spoiled trout rolling into dogie doo-doo are wonderful I was hoping for something a bit...different.

ninjavanish · 12-04-2010, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninjavanish

I honestly feel like you guys are overlooking some of the standard cigars...

Obviously Cremosa is the most complex cigar of all.

Ok fine.

So you don't like cremosas.

But in all seriousness... I don't think you need vary off into Liga Privada land or into the realm of tatauje or illusione or any real boutique cigars to find what you're looking for.

Believe me when i say I don't have anything against tatuaje or illusione but i feel like if you're looking for something with complexity then you need look no further than a fuente chateau queen b... Or a sun grown double chateau

Or perhaps maybe something as simple as a nc fonseca 5-5 maduro.

There are tons and tons of cigars out there that offer complexity. I feel like people get a little too enamored with the tatuaje and illusione and the marketing whizzes that they forget about some of the cigars that have been around... Possibly in semi-obscurity, for years and years.

For instance... I don't think you even need to mention the name tatuaje or even the thought of a cc (as it seems some have) to agree that the world of nc's offers a vastly wider variety of blends, bodies, flavor, complexity, and uniqueness.

Ive got nothing against cc's but i cant help but feel like they have been so far surpassed in quality and variety by nc's since the cigar boom that the only real appeal they have is merely their unique puro identity of isom tobacco.

I don't know really, obviously everyones tastes are different but I feel like the replies in this thread have been so repetitive that someone ought to say

"branch out! Find a complex cigar that YOU like... For yourself! The journey to that discovery will be as intriguing as the discovery itself!"

Not at all trying to be inflammatory to any of the botls who previously posted... Whose opinions i respect greatly... Simply trying to offer some different points of view.

icehog3 · 12-04-2010, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninjavanish

Ive got nothing against cc's but i cant help but feel like they have been so far surpassed in quality and variety by nc's since the cigar boom that the only real appeal they have is merely their unique puro identity of isom tobacco.

Opinions may vary.

Try lots of cigars, then smoke what you like, like what you smoke.

12-04-2010, 02:23 PM	#1
weak_link The Stranger Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Eric Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 1,263 Trading: (1)	Most complex and dynamic regular production smoke What's the most dynamic or complex regular production smoke you've had recently? I really enjoy cigars with distinct changes throughout the cigar and curious what's good right now. Been smoking pretty much the same stuff for the past year or so and be curious to try some new things. No one note wonders in this thread, I'm really interested in smokes that taste one way at the beginning and end up tasting like a different smoke by the end.

12-04-2010, 02:31 PM	#2
bishjd123 Have a Smoke and a Smile Join Date: Dec 2009 First Name: Jeff Location: Southern Maryland Posts: 196 Trading: (16)	Re: Most complex and dynamic regular production smoke I had a Davidoff Special R. The flavors changed about five times. It was almost hard to keep up with the changes. There was a point in the middle that I distinctly remember; the taste of black licorice. For me, that’s been the most complex cigar in my short time in the hobby.

12-04-2010, 02:41 PM	#3
akumushi Habanos Apologist Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,298 Trading: (11)	Re: Most complex and dynamic regular production smoke It's hard to find that kind of complexity outside of Habanos, IMO. The few NCs I've had that are good, complex and change remarkably from start to finish have pretty much all been limited editions of some sort. The LP Flying Pig, Tat SW Reserva Maduro, and Tat Boris all come to mind. However, if you want to make the most of an NC line you like, the shape and size of the vitola you choose has a lot to do with the way a cigar develops and changes its "tonal color" as you smoke. If you're looking for the most difference from start to finish in any particular line of cigars, the perfecto and figurado are a good place to start. The shape and changing ring gauge guarantee a changing ratio of filler, binder and wrapper, which leads to a change in even the most basic blend. Also, I find that most churchills and DCs change a bit simply because of the physics of the cigar, from light and faint in the beginning to richer and darker at the end. Lanceros also do this to a lesser extent. Stay away from petit robustos, robustos and toros, if you're looking for dynamics. I find that their short length and wide girth actually makes them much more consistant in flavor from start to finish. They can still be complex, in the sense that you get many layers of flavor at once, but this profile tends to remain consistant throughout the cigar. If you have access to Habanos, the list is pretty much endless, as anything but the cheapest tripa cortas will develop somewhat from start to finish, with some of the Churchills and DCs being real rollercoaster rides. Partagas, H Upman, Ramon Allones and Bolivar all have very strong basic blends that provide a lot of variety, wheras the lighter marcas like Quai D'Orsay and Hoyo De Monterey can be a little less dynamic. __________________ "Eventually, however, every ash must drop. And the drop usually is as sudden as it is final." Last edited by akumushi; 12-04-2010 at 02:48 PM.

12-04-2010, 02:58 PM	#6
pinotguy Still Watching My Back Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 200 Trading: (13)	Re: Most complex and dynamic regular production smoke To piggy-back on akumushi's thoughts, I'd say the two smokes that fit what you're looking for would be both of the Tatuaje RC's. These are both (giant) perfectos and, to me, have to be considered some of the most complex NC's out there. They are big, to be sure, and require a definite time commitment but are most rewarding.

12-04-2010, 03:22 PM	#7
thegoldenmackid Just in from the Storm Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 19 Trading: (0)	Re: Most complex and dynamic regular production smoke Opus with five years...? ISOMs are always going to win this one IMO.

12-04-2010, 03:28 PM	#8
Adriftpanda Peter's Daddy Join Date: May 2009 First Name: Huy Location: No one wants me Posts: 10,313 Trading: (74)	Re: Most complex and dynamic regular production smoke Is this what you do when you flake on herfing? Bish, Eric!

12-04-2010, 03:29 PM	#10
jimmyk26 Jimmy Jim Join Date: May 2010 First Name: Kings of Leon Location: buy the ocean Posts: 495 Trading: (32)	Re: Most complex and dynamic regular production smoke There are two that come to mind for me: 1. Davidoff Maduros 2. LP #9 If you are in the mood for an NC maduro, you'll never go wrong with those two. Not that you are specifically asking for a maduro cigar, I just think that if you are considering the most complex NC's these are the two that immediately come to mind.

12-04-2010, 04:13 PM	#12
tsolomon Have My Own Room Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Tom Location: The Villages, FL Posts: 1,246 Trading: (31)	Re: Most complex and dynamic regular production smoke Have you tried the Illusione HL or the Tatauaje Especiales? I find these two lanceros to be complex cigars that I always enjoy from start to finish. I still try a lot of different NCs looking for complex and dynamic and I would suggest trying some of the Viajes cigars. I like the 50/50 and the Platino lancero.

12-04-2010, 05:05 PM	#14
MiamiE I'm nuts for the place Join Date: Feb 2009 First Name: Erick Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,892 Trading: (38)	Re: Most complex and dynamic regular production smoke Great post Clayton!

12-04-2010, 09:08 PM	#16
Ismith75 Tin Cup Chalice Join Date: Nov 2010 First Name: Ian Location: Chicago Posts: 373 Trading: (8)	Re: Most complex and dynamic regular production smoke V Figurado

12-04-2010, 09:32 PM	#17
ninjavanish Feeling at Home Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Trust me, your humi isn't big enough. Posts: 507 Trading: (16)	Re: Most complex and dynamic regular production smoke I honestly feel like you guys are overlooking some of the standard cigars... Obviously Cremosa is the most complex cigar of all.