So humidity is relative to the temperature right?...

[MrOneEyedBoh]

I was thinking, since the humidity is RELATIVE to the current temp... and prime storage for 65% RH is say 65 deg/ 65 RH right? Then how come the temp can be 72 deg and the RH can be 65%? What about when the vino cycles it throws the RH wayyy off? I understand that the humidity is relative to the temperature. But how can the 65% RH be at 65 degrees and any other temperature too? If its relative?

[Smoking Dragon]

If I may guess at the answer. The RH% is just the amount of moisture in the air. There is some correlation between temp and humidity. Colder air is unable to hold as much moisture as warmer air. But ever temperature is able to have the same humidity they would just have different amount of liquid. Just a thought outloud.

[Mayor]

[quote=sergeant smoky;1352209]. Colder air is unable to hold as much moisture as warmer air. QUOTE]

Not true.
I can attest to this as I struggle with my Aristocrat every day to keep the humidity down(living at sea level). I have to keep the temp above 70F to keep the humidity below 70%. Lowering the temp in the cabinet raises the humidity.

Perhaps in an evaporative system (refrigerator) if you lower the temp the humidity might drop?

If anyone else is having this problem, please let me know what you are doing.

Thanks

[ihocky2]

I'm a little curious as well myself as to what would be proper. A friend of mine works in HVAC so he is very familiar with temperatures and relative humidity and such. He has a chart that basically shows if the RH at 70* is supposed to be 70%, then the RH at and “X” temperature should be “Y”. He goes by that chart to determine if the humidity is correct for the temperature. I don’t know if that is the correct way to figure it or not, but his cigars seem to stay in a nice range.

[wayner123]

This is not a simple question to answer. You really need to understand evaporation, vapor pressure deficit, etc a lot more to get the how and why this is so. Google is your friend in this.

Here is a link to get you started: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...ic/relhum.html

[dave]

I do love this recurring (at least on other boards) thread!!
The relationship between storage temp and 'best' RH level(s) nearly always develops thus:

1. 'Simple' well-meaing question
2. Couple of statements about 65% and/or just find your own sweet spot
3. Someone makes a scientific-sounding argument
4. Someone else points to Cigar Smoker's FAQ #5
5. Couple more BOTL's will say keep them where you like them.
6. Another scientific-sounding BOTL pokes big holes in number 4 with cool statements and assumptions that are either contradictory to those used in FAQ #5 or not considered in FAQ #5
7. One to three posters will complain that the science is making their heads hurt.
8. A well-meaning BOTL who claims a physics background will come in to refute either the '65 - temps be damned camp' or the 'sliding RH/temp scale camp'.
9. By end of discussion, I'll have been convinced of both arguments and one point and walk away no longer caring; I'll add a couple oz. of beads to my coolers and forget about it.

[pektel]

Originally Posted by dave

I do love this recurring (at least on other boards) thread!!
The relationship between storage temp and 'best' RH level(s) nearly always develops thus:

1. 'Simple' well-meaing question
2. Couple of statements about 65% and/or just find your own sweet spot
3. Someone makes a scientific-sounding argument
4. Someone else points to Cigar Smoker's FAQ #5
5. Couple more BOTL's will say keep them where you like them.
6. Another scientific-sounding BOTL pokes big holes in number 4 with cool statements and assumptions that are either contradictory to those used in FAQ #5 or not considered in FAQ #5
7. One to three posters will complain that the science is making their heads hurt.
8. A well-meaning BOTL who claims a physics background will come in to refute either the '65 - temps be damned camp' or the 'sliding RH/temp scale camp'.
9. By end of discussion, I'll have been convinced of both arguments and one point and walk away no longer caring; I'll add a couple oz. of beads to my coolers and forget about it.

Best. Post. Ever.

/thread

[Blak Smyth]

Originally Posted by dave

I do love this recurring (at least on other boards) thread!!
The relationship between storage temp and 'best' RH level(s) nearly always develops thus:

1. 'Simple' well-meaing question
2. Couple of statements about 65% and/or just find your own sweet spot
3. Someone makes a scientific-sounding argument
4. Someone else points to Cigar Smoker's FAQ #5
5. Couple more BOTL's will say keep them where you like them.
6. Another scientific-sounding BOTL pokes big holes in number 4 with cool statements and assumptions that are either contradictory to those used in FAQ #5 or not considered in FAQ #5
7. One to three posters will complain that the science is making their heads hurt.
8. A well-meaning BOTL who claims a physics background will come in to refute either the '65 - temps be damned camp' or the 'sliding RH/temp scale camp'.
9. By end of discussion, I'll have been convinced of both arguments and one point and walk away no longer caring; I'll add a couple oz. of beads to my coolers and forget about it.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by dave

I do love this recurring (at least on other boards) thread!!
The relationship between storage temp and 'best' RH level(s) nearly always develops thus:

1. 'Simple' well-meaing question
2. Couple of statements about 65% and/or just find your own sweet spot
3. Someone makes a scientific-sounding argument
4. Someone else points to Cigar Smoker's FAQ #5
5. Couple more BOTL's will say keep them where you like them.
6. Another scientific-sounding BOTL pokes big holes in number 4 with cool statements and assumptions that are either contradictory to those used in FAQ #5 or not considered in FAQ #5
7. One to three posters will complain that the science is making their heads hurt.
8. A well-meaning BOTL who claims a physics background will come in to refute either the '65 - temps be damned camp' or the 'sliding RH/temp scale camp'.
9. By end of discussion, I'll have been convinced of both arguments and one point and walk away no longer caring; I'll add a couple oz. of beads to my coolers and forget about it.

I am here.

[poker]

Originally Posted by dave

I do love this recurring (at least on other boards) thread!!
The relationship between storage temp and 'best' RH level(s) nearly always develops thus:

1. 'Simple' well-meaing question
2. Couple of statements about 65% and/or just find your own sweet spot
3. Someone makes a scientific-sounding argument
4. Someone else points to Cigar Smoker's FAQ #5
5. Couple more BOTL's will say keep them where you like them.
6. Another scientific-sounding BOTL pokes big holes in number 4 with cool statements and assumptions that are either contradictory to those used in FAQ #5 or not considered in FAQ #5
7. One to three posters will complain that the science is making their heads hurt.
8. A well-meaning BOTL who claims a physics background will come in to refute either the '65 - temps be damned camp' or the 'sliding RH/temp scale camp'.
9. By end of discussion, I'll have been convinced of both arguments and one point and walk away no longer caring; I'll add a couple oz. of beads to my coolers and forget about it.

winner winner

[MrOneEyedBoh]

Definitely. But my problem is thy I'm reading 73 and I'm at 65RH. I have 2 lbs of beads in there... I think I need more as mine are all wet. I'm producing to much condenstaion. I think I may have to lower the temp to 75 but then here come the beetles... where they are stored in my vino isn't cold but around 76 or so. That being the temp of the room. I like many can't afford to lower the AC anymore.

[shilala]

65%RH is 65%RH no matter what the temperature. It's because it's the humidity relative to the temperature.
Guys start thinking about how much water is in the air relative to the temperature and that's what gets sticky. For our intents and purposes, there's almost exactly the same amount of water in the air at any of the temperature ranges in which we keep cigars.
If you smear some math on it, you'll find the difference between 65% at 65 degrees and 65% at 75 degrees is almost nil. It's definately nil enough for us not to worry about it.

Anthony, if you're gonna sweat beetles, find the "how to freeze your cigars" thread and get to it. Then you won't have to worry about beetles.
I'd comment to your last post, but I'm not really sure what you're asking. I think you're saying that your vino is 73 degrees and 65%RH. That's fine. Actually, it's awesome. Mine beside my desk is 79 degrees and 60% right now. That's fine, too. IIRC, beetle eggs won't even hatch until spending extended periods at 80 degrees, and the odds of any being present are fairly slim. I've seen exactly one beetle among literally thousands of cigars. I think that's pretty fair odds.

The reason your RH in your vino drops is because water vapor condenses and accumulates on the cold evaporator. It's what it's supposed to do, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, and it's not harmful to anything.

Go have a cigar, you're all excited about nothing, my man.

Originally Posted by shilala

65%RH is 65%RH no matter what the temperature. It's because it's the humidity relative to the temperature.
Guys start thinking about how much water is in the air relative to the temperature and that's what gets sticky. For our intents and purposes, there's almost exactly the same amount of water in the air at any of the temperature ranges in which we keep cigars.
If you smear some math on it, you'll find the difference between 65% at 65 degrees and 65% at 75 degrees is almost nil. It's definately nil enough for us not to worry about it.

Anthony, if you're gonna sweat beetles, find the "how to freeze your cigars" thread and get to it. Then you won't have to worry about beetles.
I'd comment to your last post, but I'm not really sure what you're asking. I think you're saying that your vino is 73 degrees and 65%RH. That's fine. Actually, it's awesome. Mine beside my desk is 79 degrees and 60% right now. That's fine, too. IIRC, beetle eggs won't even hatch until spending extended periods at 80 degrees, and the odds of any being present are fairly slim. I've seen exactly one beetle among literally thousands of cigars. I think that's pretty fair odds.

The reason your RH in your vino drops is because water vapor condenses and accumulates on the cold evaporator. It's what it's supposed to do, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, and it's not harmful to anything.

Go have a cigar, you're all excited about nothing, my man.

What Scott said, plus the cigars themselves act like the beads and average out the spikes, and they are not all that sensitive anyway.

Originally Posted by shilala

65%RH is 65%RH no matter what the temperature. It's because it's the humidity relative to the temperature.
Guys start thinking about how much water is in the air relative to the temperature and that's what gets sticky. For our intents and purposes, there's almost exactly the same amount of water in the air at any of the temperature ranges in which we keep cigars.
If you smear some math on it, you'll find the difference between 65% at 65 degrees and 65% at 75 degrees is almost nil. It's definately nil enough for us not to worry about it.

Anthony, if you're gonna sweat beetles, find the "how to freeze your cigars" thread and get to it. Then you won't have to worry about beetles.
I'd comment to your last post, but I'm not really sure what you're asking. I think you're saying that your vino is 73 degrees and 65%RH. That's fine. Actually, it's awesome. Mine beside my desk is 79 degrees and 60% right now. That's fine, too. IIRC, beetle eggs won't even hatch until spending extended periods at 80 degrees, and the odds of any being present are fairly slim. I've seen exactly one beetle among literally thousands of cigars. I think that's pretty fair odds.

The reason your RH in your vino drops is because water vapor condenses and accumulates on the cold evaporator. It's what it's supposed to do, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, and it's not harmful to anything.

Go have a cigar, you're all excited about nothing, my man.

I like this answer. What the RH means that at this temperature, the air is holding 65% of the maximum water that it could hold. The difference in the amount of water measured by parts per million when the temp moves 5 degrees is "zilch". One more thing, the moisture content of your cigars will take a very long time to change when the RH changes. So, small changes aren't that big a deal.

As far as beetles go, the temp is more significant that the RH. The larve are dormant and need warmth, as well as a little bit of moisture that is in the cigar tobacco before they can become active.

Originally Posted by shilala

65%RH is 65%RH no matter what the temperature. It's because it's the humidity relative to the temperature.
Guys start thinking about how much water is in the air relative to the temperature and that's what gets sticky. For our intents and purposes, there's almost exactly the same amount of water in the air at any of the temperature ranges in which we keep cigars.
If you smear some math on it, you'll find the difference between 65% at 65 degrees and 65% at 75 degrees is almost nil. It's definately nil enough for us not to worry about it.

Anthony, if you're gonna sweat beetles, find the "how to freeze your cigars" thread and get to it. Then you won't have to worry about beetles.
I'd comment to your last post, but I'm not really sure what you're asking. I think you're saying that your vino is 73 degrees and 65%RH. That's fine. Actually, it's awesome. Mine beside my desk is 79 degrees and 60% right now. That's fine, too. IIRC, beetle eggs won't even hatch until spending extended periods at 80 degrees, and the odds of any being present are fairly slim. I've seen exactly one beetle among literally thousands of cigars. I think that's pretty fair odds.

The reason your RH in your vino drops is because water vapor condenses and accumulates on the cold evaporator. It's what it's supposed to do, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, and it's not harmful to anything.

Go have a cigar, you're all excited about nothing, my man.

Don't mean to get off topic, but I had heard beetles could be a problem as low as 70 degrees. If this is true, woohoo!, I'm setting up a coolerdore now, as it doesn't get much above 75 where I'll store it. Thanks, you've made my day! Time to buy!!!

As far as RH, I have to agree with what everyone here said. A few degrees, even as much as 20, will not make much of a difference in how much moisture the air will hold. Store 'em, smoke 'em, and relax!

[Starz26]

Originally Posted by Hippiebrian

Don't mean to get off topic, but I had heard beetles could be a problem as low as 70 degrees. If this is true, woohoo!, I'm setting up a coolerdore now, as it doesn't get much above 75 where I'll store it. Thanks, you've made my day! Time to buy!!!

As far as RH, I have to agree with what everyone here said. A few degrees, even as much as 20, will not make much of a difference in how much moisture the air will hold. Store 'em, smoke 'em, and relax!

I can tell you for sure beetles will hatch at 70-75. Had a beetle hatch from a LFD SB#1 in my CFC humi which was in my basement. It is steady at around 70 but can swing a few degrees.

[MrOneEyedBoh]

Thanks Scott

[area51]

This makes my head hurt...See what I did there?

[kaisersozei]

As someone who has used a glasstop humidor for years--with all the advantages of watching that hygrometer go through daily adjustments as the temp in my house varies--I can tell you this:

As the temperature in my humidor changes, the RH reading on my digital changes. Usually as the temp climbs, the RH climbs, too (I think.) Temp & RH go through cycles of +/- 3-5 degrees over the course of a few days. At any given time, my RH is somewhere between 60-65%, with temps 68-72. Except in the winter, when things go all haywire.

What does this all mean to me? Absolutely nothing. My cigars have always smoked fine. Better even, since resealing my humidor last winter.

Among beer brewers we have a saying: Relax. Don't Worry. Have a homebrew.

I'd suggest the same for cigars.

[MrOneEyedBoh]

Yeah,
What it is mainly for me is that Im trying to get it "perfect" for me. And I do know that being perfect will never happen for me. But IMO I'm trying my best to get it where I want it. Ya know? When my temps go up ( hotter ) the RH goes down.

The one thing that Im confused on is why are my beads wet? Like wet wet.

But set it and forget it. I'll just leave it alone. As long as it hovers from 60-68 I'll be happy. And sure its a big swing, but thats how much mine swings. I noticed from making the vino hotter, the RH is stabilizing better.