Pledge of Allegiance

[kaisersozei]

I went to my daughter's freshmen class academic awards ceremony today (she received an academic letter for a full year's worth of A's & B's, as well as a certificate of excellence for her performance at the French Congrès. ) Anyway, there were a couple hundred students & parents in the auditorium and to start the ceremony, we all recited the Pledge of Allegiance.

It's been a while since I've said the Pledge in a group that large, and I couldn't help but reflect that the cadence of the Pledge is exactly the same, everywhere you go, regardless of what group is saying it. It's been exactly the same for the past 40 years since I learned it.

I pledge allegiance
to the flag
of the United States of America,
and to the Republic
for which it stands,
one Nation
under God
indivisible
with liberty
and justice for all.


Everybody knows exactly how long to pause between the words and phrases. Nobody ever said that it has to be recited that way, it just is.

I found it kind of comforting how some things--thankfully sometimes the small, seemingly unimportant things--don't change. Just thought I'd share.

Thanks for sharing.

[Bruzee]

Great story!

I'm glad people still do, I've heard some schools do not recite the pledge of allegiance and that pisses me off.

[TanithT]

Originally Posted by Darrell

I'm glad people still do, I've heard some schools do not recite the pledge of allegiance and that pisses me off.

I would support saying the Pledge in schools only if all religious references in it were removed, or taught as being optional or flexible. Our nation was founded as a reaction against religious intolerance, and for religious freedom, and that is a principle that deserves upholding.

It just ain't right to force somebody else's kids to say words that are against their family's basic beliefs, no matter what those beliefs are. There really needs to be a way to respectfully salute the flag without doing this. It is right to teach kids to salute the flag, but not right to force them to do it in the name of a particular religion. Despite the fact that "God" refers more or less accurately to the single deity in all of the various flavors of Judeo-Christianity, it does NOT cover religions entirely outside of this umbrella, nor does it respect those families that are atheist or agnostic.

Fundamentally, respect and allegiance for our nation are independent of any symbols or words we mouthed as kids, probably while we were mostly thinking about how to hit the kid in the next row with a spitball. Either we teach our kids those concepts in meaningful ways or we don't. Just repeating simple words over and over again can otherwise turn meaningless and empty, especially for children who are not going to understand the concepts in the Pledge unless they are taught them well. The issue is not whether we're getting kids to say the words, but whether we're doing a good enough job teaching them the meaning.

[csbrewfisher]

Originally Posted by TanithT

I would support saying the Pledge in schools only if all religious references in it were removed, or taught as being optional or flexible.
It just ain't right to force somebody else's kids to say words that are against their family's basic beliefs, no matter what those beliefs are.

Wow, I guess you wouldn't teach the Declaration of Independence either, or even let them see it. Yikes!

[G G]

thanks.

[MadAl]

Though the phrase "under G-d" wasn't in the original pledge (it was officially added in 1954 by Eisenhower supposedly in reaction to Communism).

[taltos]

Originally Posted by MadAl

Though the phrase "under G-d" wasn't in the original pledge (it was officially added in 1954 by Eisenhower supposedly in reaction to Communism).

It was added by President Eisenhower at the request of the Knights of Columbus.

[MadAl]

Originally Posted by taltos

It was added by President Eisenhower at the request of the Knights of Columbus.

Saw that on Wikipedia, also found this explanation at answers.com: The change is usually ascribed to a cold-war attempt at differentiating the United States from officially atheistic Communist countries.

[taltos]

Believe what you want. Answers.com is incorrect. Don't want to get into a pissing contest over this though.

[The Professor]

Actually ... you're both right. There was, indeed, an extended campaign by the KofC to add "under god"; but it was largely unsuccessful. Furthermore, it was articulated in a context of anti-communism and a resistance to atheism, which was seen as linked to communism.

It wasn't until Eisenhower was persuaded *by someone else* (i.e., not the KofC) that a Republican senator introduced legislation to alter the pledge. It was (a) knowledge of Eisenhower's support of such legislation and (b) the general anti-communist political context that enabled the legislation. The KofC played a role; but they aren't directly responsible.

Trust me. I'm a doctor.

PS, I hope I don't regret posting in this thread....

[akakirby]

Thanks for sharing!

[Starscream]

My kids say it every morning at their school, but we no longer do at the high school level.

I really like the OP's intent and will leave this thread with that memory.

Originally Posted by ahc4353

I really like the OP's intent and will leave this thread with that memory.

I get myself in trouble enough around here, I'm outta this thread before it gets ugly.

[Bruzee]

I can't believe this turned ugly. Wow.

[The Professor]

Originally Posted by Bruzee

I can't believe this turned ugly. Wow.

With all due respect, I don't think it turned ugly at all. It *could* still; but it hasn't yet. Hopefully it wont....

[TanithT]

I think we can all be adult enough to share and respect each other's perspectives and opinions without it turning ugly. I would like to respectfully offer a short glimpse into perspective from a different culture, and some people may find it interesting or educational even if it is not their culture.

I am currently agnostic; I would say now that my religion is science. But I grew up Pagan. To me, the reference to someone else's strange, and to me very frightening, religious belief about a single all powerful male deity with a long history of not being particularly kind to our sort of folk made the Pledge into something I feared and rejected as a child.

That isn't really a good result if the intent of putting the Pledge into schools is to instill respect and allegiance for our nation's flag into children of all cultures and backgrounds. In retrospect, I think it would have been nice if I could have grown up being able to say the Pledge with a whole heart, without the issues caused by putting religion into it. Maybe we could offer something more positive for the next generation of kids who don't happen to come from any Judeo-Christian background, but do want to salute the flag.

[MadAl]

I don't think it turned ugly at all, either. Did I misinterpret something? Did I post something unintentionally ugly?

Sorry