Freezidor

Hi All,

Been thinking about building a cabinet style humidor for a few weeks now. Problem is I'd rather spend the money that I'd end up dropping on wood & parts on actual Cigars instead. Lot of time to assemble something like that too if you want it to look nice. I'm looking for something I can start using within the next month or so.

I've been eyeing some of the Vinotemp/Edgestar threads thinking they might be a good option, but I don't want to end up having to get another one every 3-6 months as I fill them up. I'm looking for something that I won't fill completely for a year or two, that won't cause my Cigar Budget to get an Aneurysm and bleed to death.. I'd rather spend my money on more good sticks starting out, rather than storage for them.

So, I've been thinking about it, and I got an idea to use an Upright Freezer. Some of those go up to 30 Cubic Feet. That's almost as good as having your own walk-in or closet. Bonus is that they can be found anywhere from Free to $100 without much searching. It's basically a monster Igloodor.

So, some questions for my more knowledgable brothers before I go off half-cocked down the path of no return.

• Has anyone ever done something like this? I searched the forums and around the net a bit. I found a few people mentioning they might do it, or a friend had done it, but have not seen any details around existing builds.
  • If so, what kind of freezer did you use? Any advice / lessons learned?

• What are my potential challenges?
  • Method of Humidification?
    • I'm thinking of going with an Active system, something like the Avallo. Suggestions?
  • Humidity Buffering?
    • Seen a few people recommend Shilala's Beads. Would these be a good option in this situation? Otherwise it's probably going to be crystals or something I think. Basically looking for something to protect a bit against humidity getting too high. Or maybe the Avallo by itself would be enough with a bunch of cigar boxes in there?
  • Heating?
    • Not really an issue since it will be inside. We keep the ambient temps at 65-75 in the winter.
  • Cooling?
    • Potentially an issue here. During the summer here in the desert, temps can spike over 100. We don't usually run the AC a lot during the summer, just opening windows and stuff instead. Indoor temps might get into the high 80's
    • Not sure I wil be able to use the default cooling system that the freezer comes with, even with something like an add-on thermostat. One issue is that they are condenser systems, which most everyone agrees are bad for Cigars. Another issue is that I plan on gutting the inside to build by own drawer/shelf system. Since most Freezers have the coolant running through tubes weaved through the shelves, the existing cooling system will likely be ripped out.
    • So, options given the above? I'm thinking some sort of thermoelectric system that I can add on to the freezer. I don't have much experience here though. Anyone have some recommendations? Is it possible to get the vinotemp cooler systems individually? Any other solutions anyone can recommend?

Think that's the main concerns of mine so far. I'm looking to get running with this in the next week or two. Shopping around for freezers now. I'll make it a project thread and post pics as I go. Probably end up doing some custom paint on the outside too. Maybe some cigar company logos or something.

Comments? Looking forward to any input you guys can give.

Thanks,

-Chris

[dyieldin]

I would go the thermoelectric route. I have been seeing used units here in the $40-50 range, stack 'em, go 3 high and you have the same as what you are thinking and they are stable. If they are different color then just spray them all flat black and be done with it. Later if you need more room do it again and have a 3X3 and that should hold you.

Use some old cedar boxes or but some cedar plank to put in for shelves or lining and you are good.

[CigarNut]

In general you don't want to mix active humidification systems like Avallo with beads (either Shilala or others). Shilala beads can certainly do the job without the Avallo; you just need to make sure that you have enough for the volume.

If temperature is an issue for you, you may want to follow the previously offered advice and look at a new or used themoelectic unit. (Shilala beads work great with these too )

Thanks for the comments guys.

What would the reason be to not mix Active and Passive humidification systems? Maybe because they kindof work against each other (One humidifying, the other de-humidifying)? I was mostly thinking about doing something like set the Avallo to say 63% and have the beads at 65%. This way the Avallo prevents drops and the beads prevent spikes. Kindof like an HVAC system in the house keeping the temp between 65-70. AC kicks on if temp goes over 70, Heater kicks on if under 65.

Any suggestions where to look for New/Used Thermoelectric units? I looked around a bit and found some suppliers, but it looks like there are all kinds of different systems out there. Not sure exactly what I need.

[T.G]

Originally Posted by Dark Jester

What would the reason be to not mix Active and Passive humidification systems? Maybe because they kindof work against each other (One humidifying, the other de-humidifying)? I was mostly thinking about doing something like set the Avallo to say 63% and have the beads at 65%. This way the Avallo prevents drops and the beads prevent spikes. Kindof like an HVAC system in the house keeping the temp between 65-70. AC kicks on if temp goes over 70, Heater kicks on if under 65.

That would work fine. I know many people who have been doing that quite successfully for years. Not sure if you would need it though, unless the active humidifier goes ape, I'm having a hard time imagining that at 4500ft elevation in a desert that you would have too many over-humid days (maybe a few in the winter months).

Just don't put the beads directly in the air output stream of the active humidifier or they'll end up saturated rather quickly, because the air stream itself from the active humidifier is at a very high humidity.

Big problem you're going to probably have with the freezerdor is that it seals too well, so be careful with the active humidifiers - now, being in a desert at 4500ft, you might be ok due to the extreme dryness of the air.

PM lou2row (he doesn't check in here that often) see if he has any advice, he converted a 20-something CF refrigerator to a humidor a few years ago, and AFAIK, it's been fine.

Originally Posted by T.G

That would work fine. I know many people who have been doing that quite successfully for years. Not sure if you would need it though, unless the active humidifier goes ape, I'm having a hard time imagining that at 4500ft elevation in a desert that you would have too many over-humid days (maybe a few in the winter months).

Yeah, ambient %RH here is always low. Like 15-30%. I might skip the beads starting out and see if the Active system does alright by itself. If not I can always pick some up. In the end there will be a lot of wood in there from boxes, and the drawers/shelves, so that might be enough of a buffer.

Originally Posted by T.G

Big problem you're going to probably have with the freezerdor is that it seals too well, so be careful with the active humidifiers - now, being in a desert at 4500ft, you might be ok due to the extreme dryness of the air.

It will be opened a couple times per week probably, and I plan on having air circulation fans going inside 24x7 to avoid dead air spots and keep everything inside balanced. Should be good there in theory.

My biggest unknown overall is the cooling. The freezer insulation might help buffer against the daytime temps going above 80, the nights usually drop down to the 60's. It would give me great peace of mind to know for sure that my sticks can never go above 70 though. Anyone know what the part number is on a Vino 28's thermoelectric cooler? Or what specific type of thermoelectric cooler it is? I've found literally dozens of configurations/types of thermo coolers on the sites I've been browsing. My experience with cooling is limited to mounting air conditioners in windows. That's a field I haven't done much research into yet.

Thanks for the advice guys.

[CigarNut]

Active and Passive humidification in the same humidor can work, but it takes effort to set it up and maintain it so that the beads can do their job. If not set up right the beads will get saturated rather quickly.

It's usually easier to stick with one kind of humidification system.

[T.G]

Originally Posted by CigarNut

It's usually easier to stick with one kind of humidification system.

That goes without saying, one is always simpler than two.

The mixing of beads and active humidifiers isn't that hard to do, it's really not much of any (extra) work at all, but it's something that is not usually necessary unless you have extreme climate (swings) in your area.

Since the OP is building this himself, I would suggest starting with one and you can always add the other later.

[T.G]

Insulation works both ways brother. It might help keep it cool, but if it heats up, it will help it stay warm too.

I'll send an email off to a friend who doesn't post here to see what he ended up deciding on using for his similar project (he's a PhD physicist, so I'm pretty confident he researched the hell out the coolers before he settled on a type/brand/style)

[St. Lou Stu]

I would suggest a still functioning refrigerator and this... http://www.pexsupply.com/Johnson-Con...-120-240v-SPDT

Also, whatever beads or active Rh control you decide on. Simple and efficient.

Originally Posted by St. Lou Stu

I would suggest a still functioning refrigerator and this... http://www.pexsupply.com/Johnson-Con...-120-240v-SPDT

My only problem with refrigerators is they always come with a freezer attached. I was looking for the simpler 1-piece design. Unless you get one from a restaurant supply type place, but in that case you are getting into the price range of an Aristocrat or other pre-fab system already. Even used those can go for $1000+. Not the $Free - $100 price tag you can find a used upright freezer for.

I agree on the Johnson control being a good option for the refrigerator route though. I looked into that but since most freezers have the coolant running through tubes connected to the shelves themselves, it's not really an option for me since I'll be ripping all of the existing shelving out. (I know, I look for a simpler solution, and then do something else to over-complicate it. heheh. Story of my life). Anyway, the Johnson control may still come into play depending on the cooling system I end up going with.

Originally Posted by Dark Jester

My only problem with refrigerators is they always come with a freezer attached. I was looking for the simpler 1-piece design. Unless you get one from a restaurant supply type place, but in that case you are getting into the price range of an Aristocrat or other pre-fab system already. Even used those can go for $1000+. Not the $Free - $100 price tag you can find a used upright freezer for.

Off topic, but I have that same gripe about the refrigerators used to store food. Why the hell do residential refrigerators always have to incorporate a freezer into the same unit?

They make stand-alone upright freezers without a refrigerator attached at reasonable prices. Why can't they do the same thing with a refrigerator? if I want a stand-alone upright refrigerator, I have to drop $2500+ and get it from a restaurant supply store.

For the life of me, I can't figure out why. I can't be the only person out there that has looked into it. It's a conspiracy!

[BigAsh]

I started a fridge project last year....almost complete when I get shelves/trays....but have been storing boxes in there with no problems....I have a Johnson controller which didn't kick on (set to 70) yet do to cool ambient temps...just got an Oasis xl to add some active humi to my Shilia beads....I need to get this finished!

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18433

[dyieldin]

Putting thermoelectrics in the fridge would not be cost effective. You would need a lot of them to keep it cool and there are limits on the range they can cool down to. I believe it was a drop of 30 and then they are maxed.

Originally Posted by dyieldin

Putting thermoelectrics in the fridge would not be cost effective. You would need a lot of them to keep it cool and there are limits on the range they can cool down to. I believe it was a drop of 30 and then they are maxed.

Not really looking to freeze or even refrigerate anything. They just need to knock the temp down 10 or 15 degrees from ambient. The warmest temp the outside of the unit will be is in the 80's during the summer probably. Any warmer than that and we shut the windows and turn the AC on. The cooling system will just be there to make sure the internal temp doesn't go above 70.

I'd think if a thermo system can take a 5 Cu.F Vinotemp down to 35 degrees, the same thing can keep a 20 Cu.F freezer at 70 degrees in an 85 degree ambient environment.

[dyieldin]

O.K. I was thinking down from 100 for some reason. Ya know, if you can pick a beatup looking cooler that has 2 or 3 thermos in it, pulls them and put in the fridge you should be good them.

[T.G]

PM sent with info on TEC coolers.

Got the Freezer yesterday for $40 off Craigs List. Only 17 Cu.F, not the 21 I was hoping for, but oh well. Like 4 Cu.F is really going to phase me in the long run when I currently only have a little over 100 sticks in my collection. By the time I fill this up I'll probably have a walk-in.

Anyway, got all of the hardware stripped off of it (Compressor, lines, wires, shelves, etc). It's currently going to spend a couple days with the door off on my deck airing out, and it still needs a good bleach scrubbing. There aren't any odors or anything in it, I'm not taking chances though.

I might need to replace the door seal gasket on it. The top left corner looks like it leaves a 1-2mm air gap. Maybe why they were getting rid of it if it wasn't holding the cold, or the door might just need realigned a little bit. Will see how that plays out.

I'll put up a couple pics of it tonight when I get home. Next steps are going to be finding a thermo-electric cooler. T.G gave me a couple places to start looking on those. Then I just need to build out some drawers and shelves and I'll be ready to rock. I'll be repainting it too, looks like it's probably 10 or 15 years old. Kindof scratched up.

Wow, I was wrong. Just did a search and this freezer is older than I am.

Sears Coldspot

It's actually in really good condition in that case. Probably explains why the interior walls are sheet metal instead of plastic too. I was pleasantly surprised to find the metal interior.

[T.G]

Originally Posted by Dark Jester

. It's currently going to spend a couple days with the door off on my deck airing out, and it still needs a good bleach scrubbing. There aren't any odors or anything in it, I'm not taking chances though.

Originally Posted by Dark Jester

Probably explains why the interior walls are sheet metal instead of plastic too. I was pleasantly surprised to find the metal interior.

For lack of knowing how the interior panels are plated or clear coated, I would recommend going easy on the abrasives when scrubbing down, so you don't damage them. If the plating / coating is thin, you could scrape right through it and end up creating a serious corrosion issue down the road.

An old cotton t-shirt and a mixture of bleach and water should be sufficient to clean it and shouldn't risk damaging the coatings/plating. For stubborn spots, a nylon bristle brush like those used to clean pots and pans should be sufficient. I would avoid abrasive cleaners like Ajax, comet, etc. and things like scotchbrite pads.