Opinions on wrapper impact..

stonato · 05-10-2016, 12:02 AM

As I sit here enjoying a late night Fuente the last 3rd of my cigar unraveled. Recently shipped and too dry I think. I've been a BOTL for many years and have always heard that the wrapper makes up 70-80% of a cigars flavor. I've never really bought into that theory and wondering what everyone thinks. So far this definitely has not lost 80% of its flavor.

AdamJoshua · 05-10-2016, 12:29 AM

Well the thinner the ring gauge the more of the flavor would come from the wrapper, thicker ring gauges obviously not so much.

I've also smoked some cigars that had rice paper thin wrappers and would guess they didn't contribute much at all to the overall flavor.

The Poet · 05-10-2016, 05:34 AM

People who know much more about cigars than I, such as those that make them, assert the wrapper does dominate the taste profile. Though it never made much logical sense to me, I bow to their superior knowledge. Still, I can confess I find a significant difference in the taste between the "same" cigar in natural and maduro wrappers, which would support this assertion.

mosesbotbol · 05-10-2016, 05:49 AM

The wrapper is what contacts the lips. The part of the leaf used and varietal used both suggest they play a major role in flavor. My hunch is the wrapper is about 30% the flavor.

As other mentioned, the size of the cigar is important.

dijit · 05-10-2016, 06:25 AM

It has been my experience that prelight and for maybe the first 1/3 of the cigar the wrapper is a significant part of the flavor. It is the part that first presents itself to the palate. As you smoke the cigar the oils in the cigar are released and are what causes the flavor profile to mature as you progress through your smoking experience. I would say in the final 1/3 the wrapper is very little if any of the flavor. I have particularly noticed this in maduro wrappers.

sigsauer · 05-10-2016, 08:28 AM

Fuente wrappers are notoriously fragile...

dave · 05-10-2016, 09:01 AM

I'm not about to put a percentage on it, but, to me, it has a huge impact. There used to be a couple/few lines that had identical filler/binder, but were offered in different wrappers. (La Auroroa, maybe?) Was a good way to gauge the impact for yourself.
So many 'recipes' are protected nowadays that its difficult to make a good assessment of what's in a cigar, much less what's impacting your impression at any one point. I do know, however, that there are certain wrappers that I do not enjoy, no matter what cigar is blended within. I do believe that smaller RG's are impacted more by the wrapper, but if you hand me an unbanded 60RG cigar with an SA wrapper, I'll know it immediately.

Sooner · 05-10-2016, 09:16 AM

I can definitely pick up deferences in cigar tastes with different wrappers. whether I am smoking the same blend with just a different wrapper, or the same blend in a different size. For example I can smoke a PDR Habano Sun Grown in Lancero, than smoke one in Robusto. The pepper you get off the robusto is in your face, whereas in the lancero it is a very mellow background flavor. Smoke that same blend with an Oscuro wrapper and it changes things up even more.

So I will agree with the gentlemen who posted before me and

A) take the word of people who have worked in the industry for years and know a heck of a lot more than I do.

B) not put a percentage on how much the wrapper makes up of the flavor profile. That percentage whatever it may be, obviously depends on the ring gauge and therefore the amount of wrapper leaf used, the type and thickness of the wrapper leaf and how flavorful the wrapper is (mild to full body).

stonato · 05-10-2016, 09:43 AM

Great stuff guys. Come to think of it I do notice a difference when smoking the same cigar in say a maduro wrapper. Quite a big difference actually. Because of this, perhaps I assumed it was a slightly different blend. It's just amazing to think that something with such a tiny percentage of the overall volume has such a dramatic impact. There's magic in 'dem 'der seegars.

the nub · 05-10-2016, 10:46 AM

can =/= does

Will one pepper added to a bowl of chili make a difference? Depends. Is it a jalapeno or is it a ghost pepper?

stonato · 05-10-2016, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the nub

can =/= does

Will one pepper added to a bowl of chili make a difference? Depends. Is it a jalapeno or is it a ghost pepper?

You just blew my mind man.

Dux · 05-10-2016, 11:13 AM

I've tossed many cigars after the wrapper unraveled. The taste changes drastically and I didn't like the gritty taste of the binder..

The Poet · 05-10-2016, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dux

I've tossed many cigars after the wrapper unraveled. The taste changes drastically and I didn't like the gritty taste of the binder..

This is one reason I prefer maduros. Yes, I like their flavor, but I also find this wrapper far less fragile and less prone to splitting and flaking. I like the flavor of, say, African Cameroon too, but that wrapper breaks apart if you even look at it sideways.

shilala · 05-10-2016, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Poet

This is one reason I prefer maduros. Yes, I like their flavor, but I also find this wrapper far less fragile and less prone to splitting and flaking. I like the flavor of, say, African Cameroon too, but that wrapper breaks apart if you even look at it sideways.

There are nice, thick, toothy cameroons, too, Thomas.
La Aurora uses those see-through cameroon wrappers, but lots of outfits use nice, thick, mature, well-fermented thick cammies.
They're to die for.

The Poet · 05-10-2016, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shilala

They're to die for.

I like my cigars, and can live with them killing me slowly, but I really don't want to die for one.

icehog3 · 05-10-2016, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dux

I've tossed many cigars after the wrapper unraveled. The taste changes drastically and I didn't like the gritty taste of the binder..

I agree with Doug. I have continued smoking cigars with the wrapper removed, and there is a significant loss of flavor and enjoyment for me.

mahtofire14 · 05-10-2016, 06:27 PM

The only impact the wrapper has for me is when it's a San Andreas. It gets my money every time........

shilala · 05-10-2016, 11:37 AM

IHMO, it depends on what cigar you're smoking as to what %age the wrapper dominates the flavor profile. Smoke a triple maduro, or a nice, thick corojo wrapper, and it's goito give up a good amount of the flavor.
80%? Yeah, I wouldn't say that.
But a good wrapper will put the flavor in the soup.
Mose said 30%, you heard 80%, I think Moses is closer.
But he's probably thinking cc's. NC's, in many cases, the wrapper really does drive the flavor profile.

It's probably because it doesn't take a whole lot of talent to take a very dominantly flavored wrapper and put it over some filler and binder and make a good cigar.
But that wrapper flavor will diminish over time, as with Fuente Hemingway's.
They are smooth and sweet with a very mild filler and binder. Let them sit a few years and it's like smoking an air biscuit.

So put your own number on that. Or on any cigar.
But it certainly isn't an "across the board" situation. Not by a longshot.
Enjoy what you smoke, my friend!!!

Simple1 · 05-10-2016, 12:53 PM

A good recent comparison for me recently in an NC is the RP Decade. It was an okay cigar IMHO, but then had a Decade Cameroon, and it was a much different experience, in a good way.

Ashcan Bill · 05-10-2016, 01:08 PM

For me a lot of it depends on the specific cigar. I think the wrapper on a Quai D' Orsay impacts the flavors I taste more than the wrapper on a typical Bolivar would. In the non-Cuban world, I'd say the same regarding a Fuente versus a Chisel. In a more powerful smoke, I think the filler overpowers the wrapper by a fair margin in terms of perceived flavor. In a lighter cigar I think the wrapper has somewhat more impact. At least that's been my impression.

05-10-2016, 12:02 AM	#1
stonato 1st Mammal To Wear Pants Join Date: Sep 2014 First Name: Claudio Location: Ontario Posts: 9 Trading: (0)	Opinions on wrapper impact.. As I sit here enjoying a late night Fuente the last 3rd of my cigar unraveled. Recently shipped and too dry I think. I've been a BOTL for many years and have always heard that the wrapper makes up 70-80% of a cigars flavor. I've never really bought into that theory and wondering what everyone thinks. So far this definitely has not lost 80% of its flavor.

05-10-2016, 12:29 AM	#2
AdamJoshua Article 4 Free Inhabitant Join Date: Jan 2013 First Name: The Other Adam Location: Satellite Beach Posts: 14,787 Trading: (40)	Re: Opinions on wrapper impact.. Well the thinner the ring gauge the more of the flavor would come from the wrapper, thicker ring gauges obviously not so much. I've also smoked some cigars that had rice paper thin wrappers and would guess they didn't contribute much at all to the overall flavor.

05-10-2016, 05:34 AM	#3
The Poet Il megglior fabbro Join Date: Jun 2009 First Name: Thomas Location: Hickory, NC Posts: 8,420 Trading: (2)	Re: Opinions on wrapper impact.. People who know much more about cigars than I, such as those that make them, assert the wrapper does dominate the taste profile. Though it never made much logical sense to me, I bow to their superior knowledge. Still, I can confess I find a significant difference in the taste between the "same" cigar in natural and maduro wrappers, which would support this assertion. __________________ Ninety percent of everything is crap - Theodore Sturgeon.

05-10-2016, 05:49 AM	#4
mosesbotbol That's a Corgi Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Moses Location: Boston Posts: 6,171 Trading: (6)	Re: Opinions on wrapper impact.. The wrapper is what contacts the lips. The part of the leaf used and varietal used both suggest they play a major role in flavor. My hunch is the wrapper is about 30% the flavor. As other mentioned, the size of the cigar is important. __________________ Port Wine & Claret \| British Cars \| Welsh Corgi's

05-10-2016, 06:25 AM	#5
dijit Have My Own Room Join Date: Feb 2012 First Name: Mike Location: Brownsburg, Indiana Posts: 2,186 Trading: (48)	Re: Opinions on wrapper impact.. It has been my experience that prelight and for maybe the first 1/3 of the cigar the wrapper is a significant part of the flavor. It is the part that first presents itself to the palate. As you smoke the cigar the oils in the cigar are released and are what causes the flavor profile to mature as you progress through your smoking experience. I would say in the final 1/3 the wrapper is very little if any of the flavor. I have particularly noticed this in maduro wrappers. __________________ Sporting goods raffle for a great cause. PM me for tickets.

05-10-2016, 08:28 AM	#6
sigsauer Have My Own Room Join Date: Dec 2008 First Name: Tom Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,370 Trading: (63)	Re: Opinions on wrapper impact.. Fuente wrappers are notoriously fragile...

05-10-2016, 09:01 AM	#7
dave Have My Own Room Join Date: May 2011 First Name: Dave Location: Northern VA Posts: 1,180 Trading: (15)	Re: Opinions on wrapper impact.. I'm not about to put a percentage on it, but, to me, it has a huge impact. There used to be a couple/few lines that had identical filler/binder, but were offered in different wrappers. (La Auroroa, maybe?) Was a good way to gauge the impact for yourself. So many 'recipes' are protected nowadays that its difficult to make a good assessment of what's in a cigar, much less what's impacting your impression at any one point. I do know, however, that there are certain wrappers that I do not enjoy, no matter what cigar is blended within. I do believe that smaller RG's are impacted more by the wrapper, but if you hand me an unbanded 60RG cigar with an SA wrapper, I'll know it immediately. __________________ I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. Thomas Jefferson

05-10-2016, 09:16 AM	#8
Sooner Formerly JJCigarReview Join Date: Nov 2015 First Name: Jordan Location: Iowa Posts: 139 Trading: (0)	Re: Opinions on wrapper impact.. I can definitely pick up deferences in cigar tastes with different wrappers. whether I am smoking the same blend with just a different wrapper, or the same blend in a different size. For example I can smoke a PDR Habano Sun Grown in Lancero, than smoke one in Robusto. The pepper you get off the robusto is in your face, whereas in the lancero it is a very mellow background flavor. Smoke that same blend with an Oscuro wrapper and it changes things up even more. So I will agree with the gentlemen who posted before me and A) take the word of people who have worked in the industry for years and know a heck of a lot more than I do. B) not put a percentage on how much the wrapper makes up of the flavor profile. That percentage whatever it may be, obviously depends on the ring gauge and therefore the amount of wrapper leaf used, the type and thickness of the wrapper leaf and how flavorful the wrapper is (mild to full body). __________________ JJ Cigar Review is celebrating 6 months of online reviewing. Help us celebrate in our CFW cigar drive!

05-10-2016, 09:43 AM	#9
stonato 1st Mammal To Wear Pants Join Date: Sep 2014 First Name: Claudio Location: Ontario Posts: 9 Trading: (0)	Re: Opinions on wrapper impact.. Great stuff guys. Come to think of it I do notice a difference when smoking the same cigar in say a maduro wrapper. Quite a big difference actually. Because of this, perhaps I assumed it was a slightly different blend. It's just amazing to think that something with such a tiny percentage of the overall volume has such a dramatic impact. There's magic in 'dem 'der seegars.

05-10-2016, 10:46 AM	#10
the nub Papa Chino Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Nanaimo, BC Posts: 320 Trading: (2)	Re: Opinions on wrapper impact.. can =/= does Will one pepper added to a bowl of chili make a difference? Depends. Is it a jalapeno or is it a ghost pepper?

05-10-2016, 11:13 AM	#12
Dux Lebowski Urban Achiever! Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,103 Trading: (24)	Re: Opinions on wrapper impact.. I've tossed many cigars after the wrapper unraveled. The taste changes drastically and I didn't like the gritty taste of the binder..

05-10-2016, 06:27 PM	#17
mahtofire14 Chillin in the Aging Room Join Date: Oct 2012 First Name: Pete Location: St. Paul, MN Posts: 1,588 Trading: (16)	Re: Opinions on wrapper impact.. The only impact the wrapper has for me is when it's a San Andreas. It gets my money every time........ __________________ Saving basements in the Land of 10,000 Lakes.

05-10-2016, 11:37 AM	#18
shilala Dear Lord, Thank You. Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Scott Posts: 13,721 Trading: (252)	Re: Opinions on wrapper impact.. IHMO, it depends on what cigar you're smoking as to what %age the wrapper dominates the flavor profile. Smoke a triple maduro, or a nice, thick corojo wrapper, and it's goito give up a good amount of the flavor. 80%? Yeah, I wouldn't say that. But a good wrapper will put the flavor in the soup. Mose said 30%, you heard 80%, I think Moses is closer. But he's probably thinking cc's. NC's, in many cases, the wrapper really does drive the flavor profile. It's probably because it doesn't take a whole lot of talent to take a very dominantly flavored wrapper and put it over some filler and binder and make a good cigar. But that wrapper flavor will diminish over time, as with Fuente Hemingway's. They are smooth and sweet with a very mild filler and binder. Let them sit a few years and it's like smoking an air biscuit. So put your own number on that. Or on any cigar. But it certainly isn't an "across the board" situation. Not by a longshot. Enjoy what you smoke, my friend!!! __________________

05-10-2016, 12:53 PM	#19
Simple1 Livin' the dream Join Date: May 2013 First Name: Brian Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 303 Trading: (14)	Re: Opinions on wrapper impact.. A good recent comparison for me recently in an NC is the RP Decade. It was an okay cigar IMHO, but then had a Decade Cameroon, and it was a much different experience, in a good way.

05-10-2016, 01:08 PM	#20
Ashcan Bill Ol' Dude Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Bill Location: Henderson, NV Posts: 1,900 Trading: (6)	Re: Opinions on wrapper impact.. For me a lot of it depends on the specific cigar. I think the wrapper on a Quai D' Orsay impacts the flavors I taste more than the wrapper on a typical Bolivar would. In the non-Cuban world, I'd say the same regarding a Fuente versus a Chisel. In a more powerful smoke, I think the filler overpowers the wrapper by a fair margin in terms of perceived flavor. In a lighter cigar I think the wrapper has somewhat more impact. At least that's been my impression.