Any advice on buying land?

[elderboy02]

My dad, brother and I are thinking about buying 11 to 13 acres of land in Indiana. It is approximately 2 acres of flat open land, and the rest is wooded. We don't plan on building a house on it. We just want it as an investment or for hunting/camping/whatever. Does anyone have any advice regarding buying land?

I have never done this before.

[wayner123]

What is the goal for the future in buying this land? Do you plan to farm it? Subdivide it? Etc?

Have you considered the taxes that will need to be paid each year?

[elderboy02]

Originally Posted by wayner123

What is the goal for the future in buying this land? Do you plan to farm it? Subdivide it? Etc?

Have you considered the taxes that will need to be paid each year?

Right now, we are just buying it to have it. We won't build a house on it. Maybe just use it for camping, hunting, shooting stuff, ATV riding. That sort of thing.

I don't know what the taxes are on the land. My cousin and her family live literally right next door to the land and she said the taxes are very low around by them.

I am not sure how much the land is going to go for. The auction is this Saturday and we are going up to bid on it.

[yourchoice]

Even though you don't plan to subdivide or build on it, I would suggest finding out what the property is zoned (residential, commercial, etc.) and its minimum lot size. That would help you ascertain what the value may be (especially for the future if/when you want to sell it).

Also, being it's wooded; I would want to have a feel if any of the land would be unusable for its zoned purpose. Here in NJ, we have the Department of Environmental Protection (NJDEP) who determine if any of the land should be protected wetlands, and therefore unusable. That wouldn't affect your intended use, but again, could impact the property’s value, be it now or in the future. Unless the auctioneer has some sort of delineation done, you would have to assume or guess this based on what you see since the auction is Saturday.

I'd also want to confirm the property is being sold without any liens or judgments (clear title). Since it's going to auction, I would assume it wouldn't be any liens or judgments, except for the possibility of any municipal liens which carry over to the next owner. But I would want to confirm my assumptions.

Of course, NJ is a screwed up state from what I understand, so some of this may not be relevant in Indiana.

Good luck!

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by elderboy02

Right now, we are just buying it to have it. We won't build a house on it. Maybe just use it for camping, hunting, shooting stuff, ATV riding. That sort of thing.

I don't know what the taxes are on the land. My cousin and her family live literally right next door to the land and she said the taxes are very low around by them.

I am not sure how much the land is going to go for. The auction is this Saturday and we are going up to bid on it.

Like Pektel said 13 acres, isn't a whole lot for ATV riding unless you are building a track.

And like yourchoice said make certain you get the zoning and any information on wetlands and flooding that you can for the property. If you want help with this, just PM me the address and I can help.

[pektel]

I can tell you that 13 acres ain't a lot for riding ATV's. Camping/hunting/etc. can all be done in there. But 13 acres almost isn't worth hauling wheelers there. Unless you plan on doing some type of track. I have 8 acres at my place, and it's not a lot of room. If that 13 acres bordered state/federal land, I would go for it in a heartbeat. How far do you live from the property? Is it comfortable driving distance?

[elderboy02]

Originally Posted by pektel

I can tell you that 13 acres ain't a lot for riding ATV's. Camping/hunting/etc. can all be done in there. But 13 acres almost isn't worth hauling wheelers there. Unless you plan on doing some type of track. I have 8 acres at my place, and it's not a lot of room. If that 13 acres bordered state/federal land, I would go for it in a heartbeat. How far do you live from the property? Is it comfortable driving distance?

It is about 1 hour away from where I live.

[Chainsaw13]

Don't forget to check on who will own the mineral rights.

[Silound]

Originally Posted by Chainsaw13

Don't forget to check on who will own the mineral rights.

Quoted for the truth!

Tons of people are signing away mineral and exploration rights to their land on a 50 year lease and not thinking about the long term ramifications. It sucks when you sell those rights for a fraction of what they're worth in 20 years. It sucks even more when a survey team shows up and tells you to get the heck out because you're on top of a few barrels of oil or natural gas that they want to drill for...right in your living room.

[357]

Dan, I'm no ATV expert, but 13 isn't a lot of room for riding around. Hunting, you can probably bowhunt 2-3 guys on it, depending on layout, line of sight, and the friendliness of the neighbors. Gun hunting, probably only 2 at a time if you have it setup right.

[shilala]

Dan, I used to buy houses, rentals, investment property, etc. At that time, vacant land was considered the absolute worst possible investment a person could make so far as investment property goes.
If you guys are buying to enjoy it, I'd say that's as good an investment as one could make. Don't plan to get rich, take a look at the taxes, make sure you guys can afford it, and if you ever sell it, you may break even in the end. Think of it like buying any other toy you've ever bought, except with land comes a lot more pride and there's quite a feeling of liberty attached.
The wildcard is whether it'll end up leasing for drilling. I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. If the oil/gas companies have not decended on that area already, then you may not see that in your lifetime. They're cherry picking right now and there's not enough crews/equipment to drill all the land they've leased right now. It'll be years before they catch up.
My Lisa is a Landman. She works in buying/leasing oil/mineral rights, all the title/abstracting and stuff you as an owner would be concerned about. I'm sure she'd be happy to talk to you and fill you in on any questions you'd have about that end.
That'd get you educated on that part, but it all goes back to "if you guys are buying it to enjoy it, you can't lose".

[markem]

Several things to consider. Mineral rights have already been mentioned. Right of ways is another. Sounds like you have access to utilities nearby in case you develop, so hauling them in to the property boundary probably won't be hugely expensive. Timber value is one that you should consider. If the property is for investment, you may want to consider cutting timber pretty soon as use it to pay off the property and then you have many years before you consider building on it and by then the timber will be back well enough, probably. If the property is far enough from a city, you probably don't have to worry about zoning changes, but it is worth considering. Finally, make sure you know about any restrictions on your development of the land. An in-law who lives way in the heck outside of any city, has country restrictions that says that he can't just pull utilities on to the land, he has to build to do that. He also can't just put in a pad or drop a pre-fab and can't dig a well unless a construction permit is approved. They tried to merely build a pole barn and that got slapped down as well.

It may be your property, but it's their rules.

[OHMatt]

I'll sell you some land, Dan..

[kaisersozei]

My option would always include having water--river, lake, ocean. That might just be personal preference, but I would submit that for consideration.

[elderboy02]

Thanks for the advice everyone!

[GodOfFire]

This mineral rights thing is no joke. A friend of mine inherited mineral rights and had no idea until his aunt called to tell him that an exploration company was tapping the land. The current land owner was not happy but he was getting a check every quarter for the lease of the land and if the slight long shot hit and it became a usable well he would get substantially more money on a monthly basis on the life of that well.

Well many people think they don't have oil fields in their area but as someone mentioned the natural gas folks are going crazy right now and new technologies are allowing them to tap into areas they have not been able to use before.

[SvilleKid]

Echoing many of the things said above. However.....

I own 6 acres, neighbor has 60. 10-12 acres, especially with woods, IS enough to hunt and camp on, easily. Lots depends heavily on if the property is zoned, or subject to zoning, if it is in city limits or not. Most cities have laws limiting or totally restricting the discharge of firearms. This is one of the main reasons the city of Springville borders my property, but does not include my property. And, the county I live in does not have zoning laws. So no limits on the use of my property. And, I have a nice herd of deer that cross and bed down on the back of my land. Heck, last winter, they were spending time all the way at the front of the property, eating my dog's dry dog food, of all things!!

Another consideration about city limits verses non-city is that there is a definite tax advantage to NOT being inside of city limits. I save money on car tags and ad valorem taxes because I'm not paying the extra mils that the city location would add to those bills. If no structures, then the insurance costs shouldn't be an issue. My house insurance is a bit higher due to fire protection differences, but the volunteer fire department rating that covers me is almost identical to the city's rating, and our volunteer dept has a reciprocal agreement on coverage that also helps. In all, the costs for insurance difference is still less than the extra taxes I'd pay if I was in the city limits. Just another thing to keep in mind!

Land, because it doesn't provide a return on investment (other than appreciation of value - a questionable thing in this economy) is indeed, one of the worse investments you can make, financially wise. However, if you are buying for personal enjoyment, totally disregard the investment side of the equation. Just make sure you don't pay above market value. As a real estate appraiser, I give people this same advise everytime I appraiser vacant land for their potential purchase. Not everything is about the future financial gain. If you are careful in what you pay, you should be able to get back out in the future, plus get the personal enjoyment out of the use over the years. Think about not only your enjoyment, but your kids, and maybe their children. My children (son and daughter) spent many happy hours playing, camping, hunting and yes, riding ATVs on the land (plus the adjacent lands). While 12 acres isn't enough for long rides, you would be surprised how many ways youth can find to drive ATVs around 12 acres!! The enjoyment benefits can be almost beyond measurement.

As to mineral rights, it depends totally on what the deeds read, and local and state laws. If zoning exist, it may very well preclude any type of ability to exercise those mineral rights! Also (at least in my area), the mineral right owners can't exercise on the mineral rights without the consent of the surface right owner, if they intend on using the surface to access those minerals (and, there is usually compensation that is paid to the surface right owners for any access). So, check to determine what restrictions the mineral right owners face in getting to any possible minerals. If there isn't any mining present in the area, and no past history of minerals being mined in the area over the last 100 years, it is probably safe to assume that there's not (currently known) minerals existing that would be profitable to mine. Doesn't mean something won't show up. However, it they existed, chances are really good that they would already be evidence of past mining or drilling. I don't own the mineral rights to my land, but there is no concern that there will ever be any exercise of the mineral rights, because there is no past such activity in the area, at all!!

[elderboy02]

This land we are looking at is in the country, so I am not worried about shooting restrictions

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by elderboy02

This land we are looking at is in the country, so I am not worried about shooting restrictions

Despite thinking it is country, I would still check the restrictions. Just because you think you are miles from the closest person, doesn't mean you can just shoot anything you want. I know people who live 25+ miles from any 'civilization' who aren't legally allowed to have bon fires (not to say they don't, but it is illegal). Also, if you are buying the land for a shooting range, its probably not worth it. If it is a plot of flat land, with no water, you aren't looking at any appreciation unless developments start to pop up all over the place. Mineral rights are negligible, as you aren't likely to find any that weren't known about prior to the sale, SW Indiana is certainly not the hotbed of diamond or gold. The key to owning open land is getting in the way of progress, from the sounds of it, you won't be near any progress anytime soon. It sounds like it is too small for a ATV track or hunting, particularly depending on how it is plotted, so unless you are planning on building, I would probably pass. Unless it was less than ~$300 an acre, I wouldn't even consider it, sight unseen of course.

[elderboy02]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

Despite thinking it is country, I would still check the restrictions. Just because you think you are miles from the closest person, doesn't mean you can just shoot anything you want. I know people who live 25+ miles from any 'civilization' who aren't legally allowed to have bon fires (not to say they don't, but it is illegal). Also, if you are buying the land for a shooting range, its probably not worth it. If it is a plot of flat land, with no water, you aren't looking at any appreciation unless developments start to pop up all over the place. Mineral rights are negligible, as you aren't likely to find any that weren't known about prior to the sale, SW Indiana is certainly not the hotbed of diamond or gold. The key to owning open land is getting in the way of progress, from the sounds of it, you won't be near any progress anytime soon. It sounds like it is too small for a ATV track or hunting, particularly depending on how it is plotted, so unless you are planning on building, I would probably pass. Unless it was less than ~$300 an acre, I wouldn't even consider it, sight unseen of course.

Yeah, it is in SE Indiana. I know my cousin's husband hunts on the property that they live on that is on the same road. I wouldn't primarily use it as a shooting range, just every now and then. We are hoping to pay only around $2k/acre max.