Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'

[ColdCuts]

Yesterday, while taking a stroll with the missis she asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?' To which I respond, 'Ha! Yeah, right! That's the craziest thing I've ever heard of. How could I open a cigar shop?'

And then I got to thinking, you know, what the hell. Maybe I should open a cigar shop. I don't know. It sounds like a dream come true. Other guys have cigar shops. Why not me?

What have I got working against me? Well, I've got no money, I've got no idea how to start or operate a business, I'm forty-five years old, and there's a virtual war on tobacco in this country. Alright.

What have I got working for me? A genuine passion for cigars, a desire to stop working so hard to make somebody else rich, and faith in the American Dream. And that's it. Is that enough to get a successful B&M off the ground?

What do you think? Am I a fool to even think it? Could it be done in nanny state New York? Should I give up before I begin and just keep bartending into my 50s? My 60s?

All opinions and advice welcome. Thank you.

[dave]

PMS

While researching small business start up info, my wife and I came across some very strong recommendations for SCORE. We haven't requested a member or gone to any meetings/classes yet, but we will. Check them out. Looks like an incredible organization.

[pattersong]

Most importantly, it gets you access to the IPCPR show each year! =)

Running a successful b&m here in Canada is extremely difficult. Profit per stick is around $1-$1.50ea. That's after your customer shells out $15 on the average stick. It's a tough sell here with zero tolerance for indoor smoking...but people do run successful cigar shops.

Hopefully, the FDA will rethink the definition of a premium cigar. Otherwise, the US market will really start to become like it is in Canada.

If you go for it, make it a unique customer experience.

All the best!

[ColdCuts]

Note to the Asylum: There is a not-too-distant thread called Starting a brick and mortar. It shoots off on a couple tangents, but I have read the good info there. Mods, if you feel that this thread is redundant, please delete and accept my apologies.

Originally Posted by dave

PMS

While researching small business start up info, my wife and I came across some very strong recommendations for SCORE. We haven't requested a member or gone to any meetings/classes yet, but we will. Check them out. Looks like an incredible organization.

Thanks, Dave. That's super helpful. I appreciate it.

Originally Posted by pattersong

Most importantly, it gets you access to the IPCPR show each year! =)

Running a successful b&m here in Canada is extremely difficult. Profit per stick is around $1-$1.50ea. That's after your customer shells out $15 on the average stick. It's a tough sell here with zero tolerance for indoor smoking...but people do run successful cigar shops.

Hopefully, the FDA will rethink the definition of a premium cigar. Otherwise, the US market will really start to become like it is in Canada.

If you go for it, make it a unique customer experience.

All the best!

Thank you, Greg. Yikes. That's a hash mark in the 'terrible idea' column. How in the world does anyone compete with online sales when there's not even the draw of smoking in the shops? And on the FDA, you're right of course. However that pans out might make all the difference. And as for making for a unique customer experience, considering the folks who live in my neighborhood, I think a combination cigar shop / barber shop / tattoo parlor would be a hit. But surely there are at least a million laws in NYC against smoking inside tattoo parlors.

My background, however, is in bartending. Perhaps a cigar bar (serves booze) is a better idea than a cigar shop (no booze). Not as unique as haircuts and tattoos, but it's something to consider. On the other hand, serving alcohol probably presents a whole new set of problems. Maybe best to keep it simple and stick with one product--cigars. On the other OTHER hand, all things being equal, I'd prefer to smoke where I can also have a drink if I have the choice.

[nutcracker]

I've always thought a cigar shop with a kick ass barrister would do it. You need one of those guys who can put little pictures on the foam and the missus can have a coffee while you check out the smokes. Some nice overstuffed chairs, a few good books on a shelf, oh - and customer lockers to hide their ill-gotten gains.

No issue will alcohol laws if you serve up a decent java. In Brooklyn? Killer idea.

[CigarNut]

Originally Posted by nutcracker

I've always thought a cigar shop with a kick ass barrister would do it. You need one of those guys who can put little pictures on the foam and the missus can have a coffee while you check out the smokes. Some nice overstuffed chairs, a few good books on a shelf, oh - and customer lockers to hide their ill-gotten gains.

No issue will alcohol laws if you serve up a decent java. In Brooklyn? Killer idea.

We don't need any lawyers, but a barista to make some nice coffee drinks would be fantastic!

[Wharf Rat]

Originally Posted by nutcracker

I've always thought a cigar shop with a kick ass barrister would do it. You need one of those guys who can put little pictures on the foam and the missus can have a coffee while you check out the smokes. Some nice overstuffed chairs, a few good books on a shelf, oh - and customer lockers to hide their ill-gotten gains.

No issue will alcohol laws if you serve up a decent java. In Brooklyn? Killer idea.

I think the point is, you probably want to have additional things to attract people and sell to them. It might be worth pointing out that JR's huge stores in N Carolina have a lot more floor space devoted to clothes, perfume, pots and pans than they do to cigars.

[CigarNut]

All of this depends upon the local and state laws in your area. For example, in Oregon it would be difficult to open a new Cigar Store and near impossible to open a new Cigar Lounge.

Having said that, I think the following would be good:

- A good web presence -- you will probably not be able to compete against CI, Famous, etc., but it will give you additional business and lack of a web presence is aways a big negative
- A good lounge, with as much of a bar as you can have along with some TVs, and as Neil said, a Barista would be good too.
- Knowledgeable staff
- Decent selection of cigars (you don't have to carry everything, just a good variety)
- Once you get established, host some events -- leverage the manufacturers and distributors to help you
- Marketing. We have a local lounge that does OK, but they could do better if they advertised even a teeny bit. Not talking about color glossy ads, but a little something in the local paper.

Be prepared to work hard (long hours) for awhile.

[ColdCuts]

Originally Posted by CigarNut

All of this depends upon the local and state laws in your area. For example, in Oregon it would be difficult to open a new Cigar Store and near impossible to open a new Cigar Lounge.

Originally Posted by Robulous78

As others have stated, It really all comes down to what your local gov will allow, once you know that it is really all about knowing your clientele and and targeting your business toward them.

Originally Posted by 357

I'm sure you'll do well, just do your homework on the current and pending legislation in your state/locality.

Right now, I'm trying to figure out exactly what the current laws in NYC are. I've found this:

Clean Indoor Air Act (CIAA)
Enacted in 1989 and last amended in 2013, the Clean Indoor Air Act (CIAA) prohibits smoking of tobacco (herbal cigarettes are exempted) in nearly all public and work places. Exemptions are allowed for cigar bars in existence prior to December 31, 2002 and for organizations that do not have employees.

I haven't yet found any info covering cigar shops which are not bars, but early indicators point to no smoking in new cigar shops. If that's true, my little project is probably dead in the water. I mean, I guess some folks manage to run shops in which smoking is prohibited, but I just don't see how I could compete with the heavy hitters online if I couldn't offer a comfortable smoking lounge. Unless, I was mainly a newsstand or something else. A lot of newsstands around here sell a few cigars. But, thing is, I don't want to run a newsstand.

I surely wouldn't be able to offer competitive pricing. In the state of New York, tax on cigars is 75% of wholesale value. I don't know wholesale cigar prices, and I'm a bartender not a mathematician, but I've heard it said this means a $20.00 cigar in NY retails for $27.50. If I expect a guy to pay my prices rather than shop online, I'd better be able to offer him something he can't get from the big-box stores. And if he can't smoke in my shop, well...

I will of course report back here if I discover that I'm wrong about new shops being unable to permit smoking.

Originally Posted by jhedrick83

Being a small business owner, my suggestion is to try and get a job in a B&M for a while (if you have the time). It helps you get an idea of what it is actually like. What might be problems, what are realistic expectations, what aren't, etc.

You know, should I decide to pursue this thing much further, this is a great idea. Hell, if I don't pursue this thing much further this is a great idea.

Thank you, everyone, for all your thoughtful responses.

[ColdCuts]

The barista idea is a great one. I like that a lot. The overstuffed chairs, the books, maybe a few periodicals, maybe big band music playing quietly in the background. Perhaps a TV or projector for sports and/or movies. Knowledgeable staff would be a must, and I'm not afraid of hard work or long hours, especially if it's my own place.

I just gotta figure out if I can do it with no money and no experience. I know a fair amount about cigars, but I don't know the first thing about the cigar business.

[WhiteMamba]

Check out this site http://www.tobaccoleafmd.com they're a shop in Maryland that for some reason I get emails from. They seem to be doing well and have fairly good advertisement as far as social media. I've never been there but it seems nice.

[ColdCuts]

Thanks, Michael. Looks like a decent shop. I would want to do without the hookahs though. Funny, on the website it says they're hiring. "How would you like to join our Team? Full Time and Part Time Opportunities Available."

You know, I just did a close read of Starting a brick and mortar. There's quite a bit of valuable info on there. Maybe I shouldn't have started this new thread. Perhaps I just got a little excited when my wife suggested I open a cigar bar--her actual words were cigar "bar" not cigar "shop". I guess I was thinking it'd be good to get out from behind the bar, so I began thinking of leaving liquor out of the equation. But I digress. I've spent a good part of a day off reading various threads on the topic and the FDA and I'm feeling pretty overwhelmed. Starting a tobacco-orientated business now seems the riskiest startup of all, especially in a state that is no friend to tobacco like New York.

Perhaps I should tell my wife that instead of me opening a cigar shop/bar whatever in Brooklyn, let's move to Hanover, Maryland. The Tobacco Leaf at Arundel Mills Mall is hiring. Full Time and Part Time Opportunities Available.

[WhiteMamba]

Haha glad I could help. Just don't tell your wife it was my idea

It's quite the undertaking but I wish you the best at it...

As others have stated, It really all comes down to what your local gov will allow, once you know that it is really all about knowing your clientele and and targeting your business toward them...

I would suggest, If it were my money, opening up a less specific business that gars can become a part of, and then as your customer base grows you can grow the cigar part of it as well...

Seeing as you already have bar experience, and if the law will allow it, perhaps open up a regular lounge bar with a little closet humidor first, then if you are seeing enough return on your investment in your cigar sales you can move the humidor into a room as your customers interests, and your wallet, grows...

By not starting specifically with cigars in mind, in the event of failure of adequate cigar sales, you can then fall back on your primary product (alcohol/coffee) if interest is not enough to keep the doors open... Also by diversifying your products you might guard against seasonal changes in business... i.e. no rough winters when no one is buying cigars because the weather isn't good enough to smoke them...

Just random food for thought, Hope it works out for you...

[Brimy623]

Originally Posted by Robulous78

I would suggest, If it were my money, opening up a less specific business that gars can become a part of, and then as your customer base grows you can grow the cigar part of it as well...

Seeing as you already have bar experience, and if the law will allow it, perhaps open up a regular lounge bar with a little closet humidor first, then if you are seeing enough return on your investment in your cigar sales you can move the humidor into a room as your customers interests, and your wallet, grows...

I think this is the key! If you look at most B&M/Lounges here in NYC they offer some other service as well.

A straight up B&M/Lounge will have to have a location where there are a lot of smokers/traffic whether it be commercial/residential and or easy access for a smoker passing thru to stop by on the way home or something like that.

my FWIW

[pattersong]

There's a local shop near Toronto that has nailed the cigar/barbershop experience. They're young guys running the shop and have a real good handle on the social media aspect.
http://www.villagecigarcompany.com/

[ColdCuts]

Originally Posted by pattersong

There's a local shop near Toronto that has nailed the cigar/barbershop experience. They're young guys running the shop and have a real good handle on the social media aspect.
http://www.villagecigarcompany.com/

I don't know if it's a trick of the funhouse lens, or if it's really as huge as it looks, but that's a good-looking shop. The walls are a bit spare, but I like those wood floors. Nice that they put up pics of the build. The only drawback--and this for me is pretty massive--reading their "about" page, sounds like they don't smoke inside the shop. They've got a smoking porch out back. Still, congratulations to four young guys livin' the dream in Burlington Ontario. Thanks for the link.

[pattersong]

Originally Posted by ColdCuts

I don't know if it's a trick of the funhouse lens, or if it's really as huge as it looks, but that's a good-looking shop. The walls are a bit spare, but I like those wood floors. Nice that they put up pics of the build. The only drawback--and this for me is pretty massive--reading their "about" page, sounds like they don't smoke inside the shop. They've got a smoking porch out back. Still, congratulations to four young guys livin' the dream in Burlington Ontario. Thanks for the link.

Yea, I'm not a huge fan of the wide angle lens photos either. The shop is much better looking in person. I think these photos are dated. Just last weekend, they opened a new expansion into a neighbouring store where they now have 4 barber chairs. They only do old school razor shaving and traditional barbering. The walls are covered in old cigar boxes. They have a dart board and old hockey arena seating in the waiting area.

You are correct. No smoking in the shop. Indoor smoking is completely against the law in Ontario (most of canada for that matter). Just another reason why it's hard to run a b&m here. I guess the government is afraid of hurting the feelings of other cigar smokers who walk into the shops and are exposed to second hand smoke. lol

[ColdCuts]

Originally Posted by pattersong

Yea, I'm not a huge fan of the wide angle lens photos either. The shop is much better looking in person. I think these photos are dated. Just last weekend, they opened a new expansion into a neighbouring store where they now have 4 barber chairs. They only do old school razor shaving and traditional barbering. The walls are covered in old cigar boxes. They have a dart board and old hockey arena seating in the waiting area.

You are correct. No smoking in the shop. Indoor smoking is completely against the law in Ontario (most of canada for that matter). Just another reason why it's hard to run a b&m here. I guess the government is afraid of hurting the feelings of other cigar smokers who walk into the shops and are exposed to second hand smoke. lol

It is encouraging to hear that your local B&M is thriving despite Ontario's indoor smoking ban. The United States is headed in that direction. Probably not a question of 'if,' but rather a question of 'when.'

[357]

I've seen beautiful cigar bars in nice areas that never get any foot traffic and over priced places in low traffic spots do well. It's really on how you run the place and who you hire to work for you. If you go though with starting your own place, make people feel welcome. I'm sure your bartending experience will server you well in that regard. And, pay attention to the customers. Place I like to visit has such loud music/singer you can't even converse with the people at your table. It has discouraged me from going back as often as I would otherwise. The place tends to die down once the live band/singer get going. If it was just the guitar player I would be fine, in fact it would be perfect.

Anyway, as a cigar smoker you already know which areas are in need of a lounge, geographically speaking. I'm sure you'll do well, just do your homework on the current and pending legislation in your state/locality.