Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?

[Starscream]

As much as I hate the guy, I find it equally disturbing that he's even being considered for a lifetime ban. I hate A-Rod because he's a cheater and he plays for money that he steals signs from second and sells it to the man up, but a part of me says that PEDs shouldn't be a part of this ban. I don't see the problem in players coming back from injury quicker b/c of PEDs. I don't see the problem with certain PED's as long as they aren't anabolic steroids. Players can test positive and be suspended from MLB play bc they drank too much Red Bull before a game (or before a drug test). The media makes it out that steroids in Baseball are the be all end all, but no one cares about PEDs in football or basketball. What's the difference? I know that baseball is a purist sport, but why not the outrage against football and basketball? And hockey for that matter?

It's nice to see the traditional media come around to my point of view, such as Paul Daugherty, and a few reporters from SI. I just do 't understand the double standard. I know I have *****ed about this subject before, but now it seems I have some media backing behind my views. Anyone else think that PED's aren't the absolute DEVIL in Baseball?

[Subvet642]

That would not be me. After all, if everyone is allowed to cheat, then what's the point of even playing? One of the beautiful things about Baseball is the ability to compare players across the span of time; once you introduce PED's into the equation, you can no longer do that. How does one compare a .300 hitter from 1950 to one using PED's today? You can't, and 153 years (since the founding of the National Association of American Base Ball Players in 1860) of stats and records become meaningless. Hell, if I had my way, they'd bring back the "dead" ball.

[shilala]

I'm with you 100%, Andy. I have been from day one. Tom feels the same way, too.
Darren, don't think for a second that the players from the 50's weren't using PED's. They used everything they could get their hands on, and it proliferated baseball.
Granted, we may have better stuff today, or at least safer stuff, but guys have used anything they could to get an edge since the beginning of time.

Andy, I know that the Player's Union has negotiated penalties for PED offenses. 1st offense is 50 games, 2nd offense 100, 3rd offense a lifetime ban.
Up till right now, I'd considered this Arod's 2nd offense. Thing is, he acted as a pusher in this whole Biogenesis thing, turning guys on and dragging them to the clinic.
So MLB may be considering his use as one offense, then the "pusher" thing as another. That would be a lifetime ban. If that's the case, he earned it.
I don't know the time frames involved, as in when this Biogenesis stuff started, but if it was after all the PED problems surfaced a number of years ago, I'd agree with his lifetime ban. Only because of his level of involvement and the fact that it was arrogant and incredibly stupid.
MLB doesn't want Arod breaking records. Look at what happened with Bonds. I think that plays a huge part, too.
Sounds to me like he's gone, but he'll lawyer it to death. He can likely hold the suspension off for a couple years, which is his likely lifespan left in baseball anyways.

[kelmac07]

I have no issue with a lifetime ban. Does he deserve it? That's up to the lawyers to fight out. I'm a baseball purity guy and I honestly believe that the integrity of the game should come first. As Scott said, players have been trying to gain an advantage since day one...whether it be creatine, taking PEDs, whatever they thought would give then an edge over their opponents. In Arod's case, he brought others into his circle and pimped Biogenesis as the next great advantage in baseball. Years later, it finally caught up to him and he must now face the music. If Pete Rose can receive a lifetime ban for betting on baseball, Arod can receive a lifetime ban for his involvement in the Biogenesis case. On a side note, MLB claims he has attempted to cover it up and deceive investigators...hence the integrity of the game route (can't appeal), versus the PED route(could appeal and play until that appeal is heard).

I still believe that Ryan Braun got over with his 65 game suspension. He's already hurt and probably not going to play anymore this year anyways. Besides, he's back next year to collect the remaining $ 117 million owed on his contract. And it's not like the Brewers were contenders. So, in essence, this was a slap on the wrist.

Now in Arods case, I believe the Yankees will use this (whatever decision is made) to void his god-awful contract (rightfully so...I would too). But if this happens, that just frees up the Yankees to allow them to purchase a big name bat/player for their lineup.

So, in the end...who really wins??? Baseball needs to crack down and make the penalties so severe that you wouldn't even consider using PEDs.

[CigarSquid]

I agree with the ban for his part with what he has done to 'promote' Biogenesis. I hope he gets something long, if not a lifetime ban. These players need to see that this is serious and cheaters will be punished.

I'm tired of seeing the players like Braun, get away with it.

[shilala]

This stuff sure makes Pete's ban look silly, doesn't it, Mac?
I sure wish they'd let Pete back in. I wish he'd have just come clean a lot sooner so he had a fighting chance. He belongs in the HOF if anyone ever belonged.

Nobody wins in this mess. Well, the lawyers do, but they always win.
I'm really on the fence right now, waiting to see what happens and how MLB justifies the penalty. In essence, I don't agree at all. But the pusher thing really does upset me. If I can get behind any ban or suspension, this is it.

I'm still pissed that MLB didn't level all these penalties at once and singled out Braun. While he may have deserved it in a way for his arrogance the last time around, it still wasn't right.

[kelmac07]

Big time silly Scott.

4,256 hits is crazy!!!

[The Poet]

It is my understanding that MLB is considering a lifetime ban NOT for A-Rod's alleged cheating with PEDs due to a connection to Biogenesis, but rather because A-Rod is refusing to just lay down and roll over by accepting a deal for a shorter suspension. His contention that he is innocent may or may not be true, yet any person should be allowed his "day in court" if he chooses. However, since A-Rod asserts he is innocent and will not in effect plead guilty by accepting a plea, MLB has taken the position that "OK, you don't wanna take the medicine we're forcing down your throat, well then take THIS instead!"

I don't like A-Rod, I don't necessarily believe him when he says he didn't do nuttin', and I would not cry and moan were he suspended for an extended period of time . . . if shown guilty of a violation, that is. (Being stupid enough to get within a mile of Biogenesis in the first place is, to me, NOT a "ban-able" offense in and of itself). Still, I have trouble with ANY fascist power-hungry person or organization, and for MLB to threaten A-Rod with a lifetime ban because he won't lay down and eat, say, a 100-game suspension without a fight . . . well, that's just wrong.

[Blueface]

I think they have the goods on him.
He is just being another Lance Armstrong, who if you believed what he said, he didnt do any of what he was accused of.
The days of being a big boy, manning up, taking your just lumps are long over.
We are in a new era of deny, deny, deny and even when you are totally nailed to a cross with evidence, continue to deny it.
As a Yankees fan, a-Rod is an embarrassment.

[AdamJoshua]

As said, the fact that they are even willing to let him "negotiate" sends a TERRIBLE message to other ball players and a really terrible message to the kids in minor league ball, if you are a big enough star and you cheat the same rules won't apply to you as they apply to everyone else.

This is suppose to be a deterrent to other players, they see someone get 50 games and lose a chunk of money it might keep them from doing it, if they see someone get 100 games it should reinforce that these are the rules and you'd hope a lifetime ban would scare the **** out of the fringe players that still weren't convinced.

Now with this move the MLB in their extremely limited wisdom are sending exactly the WRONG message, if you are going to cheat, cheat like hell, cheat all you can and if you get caught a couple times, even tampering with witnesses.... well just lawyer up and we'll talk.

[shilala]

I totally believed Lance Armstrong. Every word, like he was a Saint.
I wouldn't even believe directions to 7-11 from Arod.

[Blueface]

Ha!
First he was going to fight it legally to the end.
Seems after seeing the crap against him, is now countering the purported 200 game suspension without pay. Seems the hold out on the agreement is a reduction of the suspension given it will be lesser on the other involved players.
I hope he refuses to accept the deal and is banned for life.
This crap has to stop.

[chippewastud79]

I have no problem with banning players for life, but the problem is that there needs to be consistency. If Rodriguez goes for life, why does Braun get 65 games off his schedule on a team that is 20 games below .500? One could argue that Braun actually looks worse for baseball because he won an MVP and then immediately tested positive, to which he responded by throwing everyone under the bus, wrecked the testers reputation, lost Aaron Rodgers a year of salary and bet his own life on not cheating.

The Lifetime ban actually helps the Yankees, which I think is a joke. The Yankees don't want Alex back, they don't want to pay him, so the MLB is going to bail them out. Better believe the Yankees are pushing his ban behind the scenes.

Yahoo actually had one of their "sports commentators" release a video claiming that Pete Rose betting on baseball is actually worse than cheating the game with PED's. Of course the guy is a moron, but I digress.

[The Poet]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

Yahoo actually had one of their "sports commentators" release a video claiming that Pete Rose betting on baseball is actually worse than cheating the game with PED's. Of course the guy is a moron, but I digress.

Sorry, but I cannot agree with those who support Pete Rose. The rule against gambling was hard and fast ever since the Black Sox scandal, with no doubts as to the consequences. But with PEDs, MLB first ignored the problem, then frowned upon the problem, then finally at last banned usage. As much as I might consider this "cheating", I can somewhat understand both the confusion and the temptation players faced. Furthermore, how can you condemn A-Rod for not confessing to his sins when Pete Rose was the poster-boy of denial?

Ban A-Rod for life if you must, but don't defend Charlie the Hustler at the same time. That's just flawed logic.

[Blueface]

They are saying the reason for the tougher punishment with A-Rod has to do with potential criminal activity to degree of tampering, recruiting and a few other things with that clinic. It's more than the use of PED's. They want to send a message as such.

[The Poet]

Originally Posted by Blueface

They are saying the reason for the tougher punishment with A-Rod has to do with potential criminal activity to degree of tampering, recruiting and a few other things with that clinic. It's more than the use of PED's. They want to send a message as such.

If A-Rod was shilling for illegal activity, then he should not be banned . . . he should be jailed. However, though I am no fan of his, I still want to see this proved, not merely "said".

[357]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

I have no problem with banning players for life, but the problem is that there needs to be consistency. If Rodriguez goes for life, why does Braun get 65 games off his schedule on a team that is 20 games below .500? One could argue that Braun actually looks worse for baseball because he won an MVP and then immediately tested positive, to which he responded by throwing everyone under the bus, wrecked the testers reputation, lost Aaron Rodgers a year of salary and bet his own life on not cheating.

The Lifetime ban actually helps the Yankees, which I think is a joke. The Yankees don't want Alex back, they don't want to pay him, so the MLB is going to bail them out. Better believe the Yankees are pushing his ban behind the scenes.

Yahoo actually had one of their "sports commentators" release a video claiming that Pete Rose betting on baseball is actually worse than cheating the game with PED's. Of course the guy is a moron, but I digress.

I value your opinon on this Adam. I don't have issue with lifetime bans for PEDs. There should be daily or weekly testing of every player with a lifetime ban / voided contract for a positive test.

Unfortunately I think you're right about the Yankees. They're probably lobbying for him to get the ban so they don't have to pay $100 Million on an average player of the next few years.

On Rose, I disagree somewhat. If a player/manager admits to gambling on games he's involved with it implies a high probability of losing for proft. This is a bit worse than trying to get a competitive edge with some new drug. At least the cheaters are trying to win, not losing on purpose for profit. Both are unacceptable but I see the sports writer's side of this one.

[688sonarmen]

I'm with Darren in this one. As for the players in the 1950s using PEDs where is the evidence for this? I have heard it so many times but never have seen any proof.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by 688sonarmen

As for the players in the 1950s using PEDs where is the evidence for this? I have heard it so many times but never have seen any proof.

It's just a known fact. Realize PED stands for "performance enhancing drug". You can dump alcohol, vitamins, cocaine, and any other substance in that category. It's not just steroids.
There are lots of books that reference the topic of drugs in sports, like "A History of Drug Use in Sport: 1876-1976: Beyond Good and Evil" By Paul Dimeo.
I don't mean any disrespect at all, but if you haven't seen any proof, you're not looking, brother.

[The Poet]

Originally Posted by shilala

It's just a known fact. Realize PED stands for "performance enhancing drug". You can dump alcohol, vitamins, cocaine, and any other substance in that category. It's not just steroids.
There are lots of books that reference the topic of drugs in sports, like "A History of Drug Use in Sport: 1876-1976: Beyond Good and Evil" By Paul Dimeo.
I don't mean any disrespect at all, but if you haven't seen any proof, you're not looking, brother.

Yep.