A training question for dog owners

[Steve]

Does anyone have any experiences using a training collar for dogs? I have mixed fellings about them but am open to the thoughts of others.

Our boxer is pretty good about most things, but he still charges the fence when other dogs pass by on leashes. I am not sure how to break him od this. The responds great to verbal commands most of the time, but a 70 pound boxer charging the fence is a bit unnerving I'm sure.

TIA

[Ogre]

Send a PM to Leigh (Girliecigars). She has experience with training, or can give you an idea where to look.

[Zeuceone]

A trainging collar is used when walking the dog and has to be positioned properly(ie. a prong collar). Have you tried having him around other dogs to get him use to them? Try taking him near a house with a dog and have him seat close by. Give him a treat if he stays in a seating position. As he gets more comfortable move him closer but keep a bit a distance from the fence.

[T.G]

I rue the things. The thought of zapping my best bud like that, needless to say, I've never used one on any of the dogs I've had in the past.

Now, such being said, a friend of mine ended up having to use them after his third written warning and second fine, broke down and got them for his dogs to curb a excessive barking problem. It worked and didn't take much time at all, and a few months after the collars were "retired" the dogs decided they wanted to give a concert for no particular reason that he could tell one afternoon, so he just walked outside with the collars and held them up for the dogs to see at which point they give that "Uh-oh" look coupled with a wimper and stopped.

The ones that really suck are the invisible fence ones - they zap the dog going both directions. So if the dog leaves, it gets zapped when it tries to come back, so it serves as a nice deterrent to a dog returning home. Sounds like you have a real fence that is capable of containing the dog though, so that's a non-issue.

Besides the zapping part, the problem is that they are indiscriminate. My friend with the barking dogs, now the dogs don't want to bark at all. Not even to alert him that there might be a problem. How is the collar going to teach your dog "Don't charge the fence when another dog is there, BUT, it's still your perimeter to protect"

[RHNewfie]

I found the collars (electric or pronged) instilled fear instead of respect. Training our lab to stop was accomplished by calling her when she was excited and saying "stop" while throwing our arms out in front of her while she approached. Hope this helps!

[Ranger_B]

I have used e-collars for off leash work with my malinois. He has some crazy drive and he took to the collar very quickly. We recently adopted a dog and she has just started with the collar. I was against them at first. The one I am using now has a page function that buzz/beeps before I need to sting him or her. I agree with the other posters that you may want to start with socializing your dog first. Dog parks and taking your dog to public places may get him adjusted to the sights,sounds and smells of other people. On the plus side he is a great dog at protecting your house.

[RGD.]

Barking collars and training collars are two separate things. I don't like either one but have used training collars with good results on my Beagle. I suggest :

1. Make sure that the device has a beep or tone warning.
2. Never shock without giving a warning and give him time to react to the tone.
3. Make sure the shock amount can be adjusted.
4. Use the lowest possible shock setting that gets his/her attention.
5. Reward when he/she obeys at the warning tone.
6. Never deviate from when a shock is given. During the training you cant let the infraction to occur without being there to correct. In other words, for example, you can't correct him in the evenings and weekends when you are home and allow him to charge the fence when you are not home during the day.

That said, I much prefer "clickers" to train with. I would practice basic commands with him until he obeys without question. Socialize him with other dogs and humans. Once he obeys your commands, then be at the fence with him when other dogs walk by, pet and calm him as they go by until he gets use to them and sees that they don't upset you when they go by. He is after all simply trying to protect his territory.

Good luck with it.

Ron

[yakman]

I also use the one that buzz's and beeps before I need to sting her. I swear by it. The one i have is adjustable, I started out low and worked my way up. It only took me a 10 days of using it to retire it

[Gophernut]

We got one last summer for a lab that would just take off and not respond to verbal commands. We have had to zap her once. She took off, I gave her a beep and then a low shock. She stopped and immediately came back to us. She has since had to only hear the tone to stop the unwanted behavior. We now only occasionally have to put it on her, and usually only when there will be other dogs around. We live in the country, so it's nice to be able to let her out to run when it's too cold for us to stand outside. And even then, the collar is so loose that the tone is the only setting that would work anyways.
The zap setting is so low, that my daughter's fiancee zapped his arm, and said it felt like a 9 volt battery to the tounge. More of a tickle then a zap, but enough to get the dog's attention.

[tsolomon]

What you need to do as pack leader is to let him know that this behavior is unacceptable. You can do this by setting up a situation where you can control the dog enough to send the message not to do it. I think that some type of remote training collar would be a last resort.

If you have your dog leashed in the yard, will he still charge another dog that is out front? The simplest of corrections done right at that time is where I would start. If he doesn't react when leashed, maybe you need to stand between the dog and fence and tell him to stop when he charges. Boxers are pretty smart and once you communicate that this isn't his job and his behavior is unacceptable to the pack leader, then you should be able to stop this. Plan on spending a day or two out in the yard working on this.

Can you get someone to walk a dog by a couple of times so you can work on modifying your dog's behavior? First with you in the yard and then from inside the house. He must be trained so that he understands that it is never ok to charge the fence regardless of where you are.

You must be ready to reward good behavior with a treat so that there is positive reinforcement for not charging. The clicker can help here as it provides that instant confirmation that his behavior is correct. You know your dog better than any trainer and all they can do is give you tools to try. Different dogs respond to different methods, which is why trainers often have multiple ways to accomplish a training goal.

[Steve]

Thanks to all for the replies.

First to clarify; I was refering to the remote controlled shock collars in my original post, used to re-inforce a command. Personally, I am not really that fond of them, but a couple of people that I know were suggesting them. I personally prefer to reward positive behavior while training. Granted, it takes more work, but I think it has better results in the end.

One of the reasons we brought Riley into our family was for the security he could provide for my family when I might not be there. As was mentioned above, what I do not want to happen is for him to be confused when to protect and when not to protect. He is actually pretty astute when it comes to people. Most people he is fine with, but there are a few people that he will purposfully step in between my wife or daughter when we are walking him. There are also a couple of people that walk through our nieghborhood in the evenings/night and he definately lets them know he is watching them.

He responds well to voice commands, but of course these need to be continually worked on. The one he most needs work on seems to be "leave it" when it comes to dogs that walk by the fence. Looking back, we probably did not do a very good job of socializing him at an early age. That is our mistake not his, and I have a hard time penalizing him for our mistake. Now I need to work on socializing him without having him tear up other dogs. I don't know that he would, but it sure sounds like it.

Also, thanks for reminding me about the clicker. I thought about that this morning and dug it out.

Again, thanks for the imput!

BTW Larry, I will try to get in touch with Liegh later this week or this weekend. Thanks.