Motorcyclists and non-riders , I would like opinions on this story

[newcigarz]

I just can't believe what I read here.

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/20...bikers-do.html

[MiamiE]

I am fine with the fact he pulled over the motorcycle, I mean he was going 100+. The rest is just a little weird.

[newcigarz]

Originally Posted by MiamiE

I am fine with the fact he pulled over the motorcycle, I mean he was going 100+. The rest is just a little weird.

How about drawing out his weapon?

[floydpink]

Probaly more to the story, but from what I saw, it seems like you have a case of an officer giving officers a bad name and a biker giving bikers a bad name.

ABATE was recently at an event I attend trying to get people to sign a petition.

Apparantly Florida is considering legislation that would allow the confiscation of a motorcycle going more than 40mph over the posted speed limit.

They argue it unfairly targets bikers and the same should be applied to cars.

I agree in some aspects.

Personally I never go that fast and won't ride with anyone who does.

It may seem like I'm painting with a broad brush, but nearly every time someone is riding like that, it is a guy in his
20's on a metric bike thinking he's a lot cooler than he really is.

[newcigarz]

Originally Posted by floydpink

Probaly more to the story, but from what I saw, it seems like you have a case of an officer giving officers a bad name and a biker giving bikers a bad name.

I think this a fair assesment

[68TriShield]

Originally Posted by newcigarz

I think this a fair assesment

[It's guys like Graber that we have to blame for police aggressively targeting motorcyclists]

I think this quote is too Tony.

Originally Posted by floydpink

Probaly more to the story, but from what I saw, it seems like you have a case of an officer giving officers a bad name and a biker giving bikers a bad name.

ABATE was recently at an event I attend trying to get people to sign a petition.

Apparantly Florida is considering legislation that would allow the confiscation of a motorcycle going more than 40mph over the posted speed limit.

They argue it unfairly targets bikers and the same should be applied to cars.

I agree in some aspects.

Personally I never go that fast and won't ride with anyone who does.

It may seem like I'm painting with a broad brush, but nearly every time someone is riding like that, it is a guy in his
20's on a metric bike thinking he's a lot cooler than he really is.

I'm in agreement here as I have been riding motorcycles for 40 years and as with most things there are incidents out there that defy imagination. Not knowing the full details or the back story except from this report I'd say going 100mph is where things started to go wrong. The policeman should have identified himself in a more appropriate manner but there are some policemen who get "emotionally" involved in the incident where they stop being a policeman and act out with reactionary motives.

I also agree with the statement that most times it is some kid on a crotch rocket who is not using sound judgement and is "overtaken" by his feel of freedom of going fast and taking chances that gives other motorcyclists a bad name. It is a well known fact that the judgement part of the brain is not fully developed until the age of 25 which makes you think about the ramifications of what goes on out there.

[MiamiE]

I am not an LEO so I have no idea, I can only assume he didnt want the guy trying to ride away.

[safariguy]

Interesting that the author says that only a small percentage of riders give the others a bad name, but ALL cops are "gun-toting thugs."
That cop should have no expectation of privacy regarding being videoed. He is clearly a lunatic and should be criminally charged with assault with a deadly weapon, (and obstruction of justice if he did not put in his report that he drew his gun on a suspect.)
BTW, I am a cop, and a rider. So that must mean that I beat myslef up sometims for no reason, right?

This is the part I find interesting:
Graber, who pled guilty to the 80 in a 65 ticket he was issued at the stop, felt aggrieved by Uhler's thuggery and decided to upload a video of the traffic stop to YouTube so the whole world could share in the experience.
Obviously he got cut a break, he could of been charged with reckless driving along with a lot of other charges and he probably could of been arrested. But he still felt it was necessary to go after the undercover cop. The officer should have identified himself better but Graber wouldn't be put in that position if he wasn't driving like an idiot.

[cbsmokin]

Watching the video it seemed to me that uniforms were very close behind so they must have already been notified of the irresponsible rider. Shouldn't the UC just have continued reporting and allowed the patrol car to handle the situation?

As to the right to privacy stuff, good luck. There is very little if any right to privacy out in the open when in plain sight of all who pass by. Probably the true story is that the district attorney seized the computer to use the video against the rider.

[icehog3]

The rider put lots of people at risk with his riding and should have his license revoked.

I do not believe the cop ever pointed the weapon at the rider, he unholstered and approached the rider with the gun in the "hunt" position. This is not uncommon when dealing with the unknown, although I would not point the weapon and put my finger on the trigger until it became a deadly force situation. I just don't see the "aggressiveness" that is being claimed here.

The whole search warrant, detention situation sounds way over the top. There are less obtrusive ways to get the video removed from youtube, and I think the wiretapping charge was a bogus means to an end.

[newcigarz]

Originally Posted by icehog3

The rider put lots of people at risk with his riding and should have his license revoked.

I do not believe the cop ever pointed the weapon at the rider, he unholstered and approached the rider with the gun in the "hunt" position. This is not uncommon when dealing with the unknown, although I would not point the weapon and put my finger on the trigger until it became a deadly force situation. I just don't see the "aggressiveness" that is being claimed here.

The whole search warrant, detention situation sounds way over the top. There are less obtrusive ways to get the video removed from youtube, and I think the wiretapping charge was a bogus means to an end.

Thanks for weighing in on this Tom.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by newcigarz

Thanks for weighing in on this Tom.

I'd like to hear some more of your thoughts, Tony.

I guess I have bias in both directions, being a rider and an LEO.

[newcigarz]

Originally Posted by icehog3

I'd like to hear some more of your thoughts, Tony.

I guess I have bias in both directions, being a rider and an LEO.

I have watched the video multiple times.
1) The rider endangers everyone around him with his disregard for safety on a public road with moderate to heavy traffic.
2) sounds like he got off real easy with the ticket. Could have/should have been reckless driving.
3) I think that even though the LEO has a gun out in "hunt" mode as you call it, I don't know that it was necessary for that situation, and I don't know how the rider or myself for that matter would be able to determine this was a cop and not some road rager.
4) the "wiretapping" charge just drives me crazy.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by newcigarz

3) I think that even though the LEO has a gun out in "hunt" mode as you call it, I don't know that it was necessary for that situation, and I don't know how the rider or myself for that matter would be able to determine this was a cop and not some road rager.

I wish there was audio, all we have is the rider's claim that the officer did not identify himself as such, and I am not sure I would take him at his word.

Remember that LEOs, via Supreme Court case law, are not judged by the "reasonable man" theory, but by the "reasonable police officer" theory...based on the totality of circumstances, the information available at the moment, and not to be judged by "Monday morning quarterbacking".

Based on what I saw, was it reasonable for the officer to pull his car in front of the stopped mototrcycle, unholster his weapon, and assertively approach the rider in an attempt to stop his reckless behavior? I'd say it absolutely was reasonable.

[St. Lou Stu]

Originally Posted by newcigarz

I have watched the video multiple times.

3) I think that even though the LEO has a gun out in "hunt" mode as you call it, I don't know that it was necessary for that situation, and I don't know how the rider or myself for that matter would be able to determine this was a cop and not some road rager.

Me too, and the one thing I did see is that the rider did 'push back' from the unmarked vehicle.... was he going to flee? hard to judge.
I saw a badge on the hip of the unmarked right away. That is identification enough. If I can read lips at all, it looks like there was a verbal identification.

Was the officer threatened? If he felt that way, he had every right. It is a helluva lot harder to react to a motorcycle speeding away than it is to immediately take control of the situation as he did. Once control was established, the weapon was holstered. Kudos for that.

All MHO, of course. What do I know?

I don't really see where the Officer was in the bad. He stopped, drew his weapon, and ordered the rider off the bike. It's not like the guy was riding his big wheel down Main st eating cotton candy and drinking Pepsi Cola. He was being a menace and just because the Officer didn't "lay the badge on him" as my Grandpa would call it, doesn't mean he did not handle the situation properly. It's not like he threw the guy off the bike and put the pistol in his mouth.

As far as the wire tapping goes, a Judge has to sign those warrants, he must have felt that the Police has cause to enter the home. Is it overkill? Yeah, for a Youtube video, probably.

Overall, I think the Officer handled the situation fine, the rider was an obvious menace and needed to be dealt with swiftly.

[akumushi]

As a laymen, the cop didn't seem very "thuggish" to me. I don't know whether or not the gun was necessary, but he never pointed it at the guy and it went back into the holster as soon as he had the guy stopped. All in all his actions seemed pretty professional in the heat of the moment, especially considering how often riders try to flee when they see the police. I think the uniforms laid back so the plain-clothes could stop him unawares without spooking him first and starting a highspeed chase that would have ended disasterously.
As for the idiot on the bike, in Cali he would have been arrested for the speed alone, as they can take you in for anything 100+ Not to even mention the wreckless driving on top of that. He should have considered himself to be getting a lucky break and have called it a day. Posting the video was petty and while I think it is over the top what the police did to get the video and the wiretapping charges are bogus, there's a lot of leeway in search and seizure since the Patriot act, so while it shows how much our freedoms have been eroded in the last ten years, its not out of keeping with the general climate of our times, I've had friends get their house invaded on far less substantial claims.
I've had two friends that rode like that. One's dead and left a 2 year old child behind, the other is now a paraplegic with severe brain damage that makes talking nearly impossible. He is a huge and painful burden on his family. Riders like that endanger themselves and everyone around them in a reckless manner and deserve a good smack down by the law. It'll save their families a lot of grief down the line.

[LasciviousXXX]

All good and valid points made. My only issue is I don't think we're being given the whole story. Obviously the writer of the article is putting a nice big SLANT on this story and the fact that he feels Officers should be targeting "hippies" and "foreigners" makes me question his credibility even more.

I would love the full story as the way its written now leaves me with more questions than answers.