Interesting read on misconceptions on Cuba

[poker]

Hopefully it wont turn political. Not the intent.
I didnt write it either, but did find it interesting.


http://www.iammyownreporter.com/misconceptions.htm

[VirtualSmitty]

Can't say much as i've never been, but based on what i've been told about Castro from some Cuban expatriates i'd have to to disagree with him not being one of the bad guys.

[csbrewfisher]

Kelly, I'll try to keep it non-political. I would distrust anything this guy writes. Did you see his web site? Some excerpts...

• There is no "good" patriotism. Patriotism isn't good. It's pure stupid.
  
• Communism is NOT an ideology or a political system. It is ONE of the procedures that the people of a civilized state need to employ in order to live together in a civilized way and to provide and maintain as good a life for every participant as is practically possible.
  
• Capitalism or usury or whatever you call it is an effort to make a profit, to get more than one gives and, thus, clearly, to cheat.

The guy is certifiable.

[Ashcan Bill]

Interesting article. Don't know about it's veracity, but an interesting read.

I know several Cuban exiles, all of whom left many years ago and none of whom have anything good to say about the current conditions.

Last month, I met a young Cuban who had left three years ago. I asked him what the Cuban health care system was like. I was surprised when he said it was great, especially compared to the U.S. He mentioned medications were hard to come by, but the level of care was very good and available to all. Not the answer I was expecting at all.

Sometimes I just don't know what to think.

Interesting read, thanks for the link Kelly

[md4958]

Outside the U.S. bubble, Fidel is the most highly respected chief of state in the world. American presidents avoid contact with him because they know he will upstage them.

He's amazingly well versed and smarter and more articulate than any American president since Jefferson, which is why it would be a bad idea to replace him after 4 years or 40 years

Wow! I never knew all that!! I wouldnt be suprised if this reporter was on the Cuban government payroll

[the nub]

From my own experience, I can say that the 'truth' is never the truth in Cuba. What you think you know is only what you observe at any given moment or what someone tells you. Tomorrow may not produce the same results. Often times, what Cubans tell you is what they think you want to hear. Often times what you see is filtered through the eyes of a foreigner. I can say one thing, though. It would be very difficult for a westerner to live the life of a Cuban and vica versa. With each visit, I learn more, yet know less.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by the nub

I can say one thing, though. It would be very difficult for a westerner to live the life of a Cuban and vica versa. With each visit, I learn more, yet know less.

Do the millions of Cubans here in the US know this, the visa versa part that is?
I guess the ones that died trying to swim over didn't know this either.
How the heck did my family and I conform and grow use to it? Gotta go back and look at that one a bit closer.

With that, I think I contributed enough and don't want to be the cause of wrong direction in any way.
Just hard to be told you have a green car yet every day when you go outside and clean it, it is white as a ghost, yet you should think it is green.

One of her (Yoani) quotes is so powerful:
Today could have been a day like any other… I regret not being able to say so. It is my son, Jimmy’s, 11th birthday. It has been six years of forced absence imposed by hatred and evil, incapable of understanding that not all men think alike. That has been my punishment, for the government to separate me from my son, by imprisoning me.
I bet she could get use to being here, free, with her son very, very easily.

I make $8 a month! Fidel!

[the nub]

Originally Posted by Blueface

Do the millions of Cubans here in the US know this, the visa versa part that is?
I guess the ones that died trying to swim over didn't know this either.
How the heck did my family and I conform and grow use to it? Gotta go back and look at that one a bit closer.

With that, I think I contributed enough and don't want to be the cause of wrong direction in any way.
Just hard to be told you have a green car yet every day when you go outside and clean it, it is white as a ghost, yet you should think it is green.

I didn't say it was impossible, only difficult. I can tell only from my experiences from talking with Cubans and from conversations that my friends have had. For example, the idea of credit is absolutely foreign for most of them. They think that all tourists are millionaires since we can buy a 200CUC box of cigars. Those that are willing to take the risk to leave have a different mindset and are willing to do whatever it takes to live their dream. BUT the vast majority that I've encountered, while happy in general, have no clue about western society. Not that they are stupid or unresourceful, just that the norm here does not exist in Cuba.

[markem]

The article that Poker linked (thanks, Kelly!) attempts to paint a specific picture of Cuba in about 2000. It may or may not be accurate (suspect some of both). My read is that it is a "sway piece" written for a specific aim and audience, although the writer isn't quite up front about it. Lots of ways to read it, so lots of possible aims and/or audiences.

That all said, accurate information on the state of the Cuban economy, conditions for the average citizen, etc. is available. Lots of first hand reporting by the countries (nearly every one besides that US) that have relations with Cuba. The Canadian press has been pretty good about balanced reports, or so it seems to me.

My question would be this: are there any countries similar to Cuba (in terms of political structure, state of the citizens, etc.) with whom the US has relations or is in the process of seriously pursuing relations? I think that the answer is 'yes' and that begs a second question: why are normal relations with Cuba not an active part of US policy? Why is Cuba being treated differently?

Normalizing relations with China in the 70s could be seen as the driving force behind the modernization of China and the growth of the democracy movement there. Could the same happen with Cuba?

The one thing that I will toss out there is that if there was unrestricted travel to Cuba from the US, the amount of money flowing into the economy and the substantial contact between the peoples of the two countries would eventually have an impact on both countries. I would hope that the impact would be beneficial for the average Cuban citizen.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by markem

The article that Poker linked (thanks, Kelly!) attempts to paint a specific picture of Cuba in about 2000. It may or may not be accurate (suspect some of both). My read is that it is a "sway piece" written for a specific aim and audience, although the writer isn't quite up front about it. Lots of ways to read it, so lots of possible aims and/or audiences.

That all said, accurate information on the state of the Cuban economy, conditions for the average citizen, etc. is available. Lots of first hand reporting by the countries (nearly every one besides that US) that have relations with Cuba. The Canadian press has been pretty good about balanced reports, or so it seems to me.

My question would be this: are there any countries similar to Cuba (in terms of political structure, state of the citizens, etc.) with whom the US has relations or is in the process of seriously pursuing relations? I think that the answer is 'yes' and that begs a second question: why are normal relations with Cuba not an active part of US policy? Why is Cuba being treated differently?

Normalizing relations with China in the 70s could be seen as the driving force behind the modernization of China and the growth of the democracy movement there. Could the same happen with Cuba?

The one thing that I will toss out there is that if there was unrestricted travel to Cuba from the US, the amount of money flowing into the economy and the substantial contact between the peoples of the two countries would eventually have an impact on both countries. I would hope that the impact would be beneficial for the average Cuban citizen.

Here is your answer Mark assuming we believe what the article states.
4. The embargo causes intense suffering and many deaths. Wrong! In fact, almost no other country observes the embargo. Certainly, it causes problems, because America should be a closer and cheaper source of many things Cuba, which is an island of limited resources, regularly buys. But Mexico is just as close. Venezuela, a major oil producer, is now very friendly. Cuba makes most of its own medicines; I ask in every pharmacy I pass and they always tell me they fill virtually all prescriptions; and when I went to the Ministry of Health and asked for a list of actually critical medical needs, I got a very short list. Most importantly, the absence of any general suffering in Cuba is dramatically visible to the naked eye.

I love it.
I have to tell all my family and friends to stop sending all the medications they do. There is ample down there and we are getting bad information. Our relatives have been lying to us when they tell us they don't have novane for teeth extraction.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by the nub

For example, the idea of credit is absolutely foreign for most of them.

I could also address the rest of the misconceptions you perceive but this one caught my eye most.

From the Spanish dictionary, the same one we use to learn the language in Cuba:

Crédito
masculine noun
1. loan (préstamo)
(comprar algo) a crédito -> (to buy something) on credit
crédito bancario -> bank loan
crédito blando -> soft loan
crédito al consumo -> consumer credit
crédito a la exportación -> export credit
crédito hipotecario -> mortgage (loan)
crédito oficial -> official credit
crédito personal -> personal loan
2. credit (plazo de préstamo)
3. trust, belief (confianza)
digno de crédito -> trustworthy
dar crédito a algo -> to believe something
¡no doy crédito a mis oídos! -> I can't believe my ears!
4. standing, reputation (fama)
5. credit (en universidad)
6. (Cine)
títulos de crédito -> credits

Certainly they must know the concept if found in the Spanish dictionary.
They use it regularly along with their bartering. Many barter on "credit" and pay up their end of the deal when their care package from Cubans in the US arrives or when they are able to. They just don't have a platinum visa like you and I but as we well know with the Americans in debt with credit cards, not a hard concept to quickly learn.
As they do in mythbusters, hopefully this one has now been busted.

[kaisersozei]

Yes it was an interesting read.

So is the footnote on this guy's webpage:

*World: could mean several things, including planet, but the planet isn't apparently nearing its end. Here, world means a construct of substances and conditions (stuff and circumstance) draped over the planet, extending a little below and a little above the surface, like a slightly inflated baggy, without which the thin surface smear of living vegetable and animal scum called life on earth cannot survive. This construct (the scum bag, or eco-system) is not flimsy and can even self adjust considerably, so the fate of this or that individual species may not be critical at all, but the over-all construct is more vulnerable than the planet it clings to, its viability as a life host does ultimately depend on its proportionate make-up as a construct, and with one cancerous ingredient (the human race and the human encampment, including all its side effects) already way overgrown and still growing wildly out of proportion, it - the world - is very obviously crashing. It's not going to stop crashing without draconian measures being taken - which aren't being taken - and won't be taken - and probably should have been taken long ago. And since all of humanity is in total denial about this - deaf, blind, speechless, and immobile - it's a done deal.

Smoke another doobie, dude.

[the nub]

Originally Posted by Blueface

Certainly they must know the concept if found in the Spanish dictionary.
They use it regularly along with their bartering. Many barter on "credit" and pay up their end of the deal when their care package from Cubans in the US arrives or when they are able to. They just don't have a platinum visa like you and I but as we well know with the Americans in debt with credit cards, not a hard concept to quickly learn.
As they do in mythbusters, hopefully this one has now been busted.

You can spin it any way you want.

[Blueface]

Love when someone who wasn't there tries to explain an accident to an eye witness.
Not you Kelly, the writer.
Other than that,


What Fidel thought about the article when told in advance.



Fidel after he heard it was in print and had forgotten to tell them something else to include.

[Blueface]

Here is someone in the news recently whose perspective is probably more accurate.
She is a famous blogger out of Cuba not being permitted to leave to receive a prize in NY for her work against the Communist regime.
She runs ramped throughout Cuba looking for places to log on via use of a thumb drive to post her blog.
They don't allow her to openly do it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8306557.stm

This contrasting viewpoint is one that is more accurate as comes from an eyewitness, unlike the writer of the posted one.
Read up on her work. Quite bold and interesting.

Another recent article on her.
http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/o...y/1287090.html

and finally, he blog.
http://www.desdecuba.com/generationy/

The name of it is "from Cuba", generation y

[T.G]

I only just skimmed the article, but the further down the page I went, the more and more I was convinced that the author is wearing one of the darkest sets of rose colored glasses ever made.

The closest B&M to me (Cardenas Cigars in Sacramento) happens to be owned by Cubans. While they will speak some light(hearted) stories of Cuba, like of their jobs in the cigar factories, and little tidbits here and there, for the most part, they don't like to talk seriously about Cuba and neither do any of the many other Cubans that come in there. Some got out legally, some snuck out, but every single one of them risked their lives to leave, and there's really only two logical reasons why anyone would be willing to do that. I have enough respect for them to know not to ask about Cuba, but when they speak of it, either by their own decision to tell a story or someone else asking them, I will listen. Their stories are hardly ever complimentary.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by T.G

I have enough respect for them to know not to ask about Cuba, but when they speak of it, either by their own decision to tell a story or someone else asking them, I will listen.

Thank you on their behalf and mine. That is all we can ask for.

[macpappy]

The mayor of New Orleans is scheduled to go on a trade mission to Cuba. Maybe he will find it to his liking and stay.

Seriously though, about 8 years ago someone I know was part of a government sanctioned visit to Havana. He said that what they were shown was a Cuba that was a lot better off than what most believe. He also said that they weren't allowed to go off on their own or talk to anyone without their "tour guide" on hand. Basically they were only allowed to see and hear what the Cuban government wanted them to see and hear.