What is a very good Espresso machine

My LOML is a Cappuccino fanatic. She's wanting a very nice machine. Nothing over 500 or so. It'll be her X-Mas gift so I have to start planning now. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Swampper]

i don't want to be a smart-ass, but you answered your own question: 'Nothing over 500'.

The Rancilio Silvia starts at about $600 new, and then you still need a good burr grinder.

The Silvia can make good espresso shots, but it will not be as consistent as a machine with a heat exchanger group head. I upgraded from the Rancilio to a Nuova Simonelli Ocar, and the espresso is much better, and easier to get right. Oscars sell for a little under $1000.

Hope I didn't bum you out, but I don't want to see you waste you money on stuff that doesn't get the job done.

[Mister Moo]

Originally Posted by Swampper

...The Rancilio Silvia starts at about $600 new, and then you still need a good burr grinder... ... I don't want to see you waste you money on stuff that doesn't get the job done.

Yeah.

It's hard not to be a buzzkill but good home espresso necessarily starts with a good grinder. A good espresso grinder, these days, begins around Rancilio Rocky territory or 350 American clams. Add to that the requisite tamper, knockbox, frothing pitcher(s), espresso/cappuccino demis and a brace of 2-oz shot glasses and that doesn't leave any scratch for an espresso machine and two pounds of Intelligensia Black Cat to practice on. Damn it, Jim! I'm a doctor not a coffee economist!

Most people start with 2nd tier gear and slowly shovel it out into the garage; a few get the bug and budget-upgrade (over and over). Geniuses (both of them) bought a great grinder and then, long after, decided a great home espresso machine was still a good idea. Good home espresso is a very expensive indulgence, whereas, excellent home coffee is not necessarily insanely expensive. If you wanna do someone you love a real favor, get the best grinder you can afford. Plus a 3-cup Bialetti mokapot. The grinder will perform for a lifetime of great coffee from drip to espresso. If the mokapot gets boring after a year or two or three (mine NEVER get boring, by the way), that leaves the door open for an espresso maker down the road. I swing with the Swampper here, 100%. The 600-clam Silvia is the least you'd want if you REALLY want home espresso to do you proud. Even at that, the nutjobs who care end up modding Silvias like some kind of Mars spacecraft...

Basically, there are fake espresso makers, cheap espresso makers and good espresso makers. The good ones are not cheap and the cheap ones are not good. The fake ones, however, ARE fake.

[floydpink]

I found with expresso equipment, if you don't do it right the first time, you will by the third or 4th try and have dumped more money than you needed to.

I'd love a Mazzer grinder and an Oscar machine, but do very nicely with a Baby Gaggia and a Gaggia MDF grinder and got the whole setup from Wholelattelove for somewhere around the price you are mentioning, maybe a little more.

i love the Baby Gaggia machine but can see a mazzer grinder in my future, in fact I am comparing prices now and am thinking of putting the MDF grinder up for sale or trade.

I agree the Silvia is a great machine and the bare minimum as far as quality goes , but somehow wound up with a Gaggia and don't regret it at all and pull great shots from it every day. In my narrow mind, it is a quality machine.

Speaking of expresso machines, I noticed something funny recently in little Havana, Miami.

Most of the little cafes have very modest decorations and tables and chairs, but i don't think I saw ONE that didn't have a Mazzer grinder and a Rancillio commercial expresso machine and many a really fancy orange juice squeezer.

Toss in the cigars down there, and it seemed as though they have thier priorities in order.

[kelmac07]

Bought my wife a Krups at Bed, Bath & Beyond about six months ago and she is loving it. It ran about $ 250. She wears it out daily!!

[ghostrider]

I have to add that while the Krups machines are labeled as espresso machines, they're not really producing espresso. It does make a good cup of coffee if you are consistent with how you make it, but all you're really ending up with is a strong cup of coffee, not espresso.

That being said, if you enjoy it, and it works for you, go for it...

[mosesbotbol]

I have a the Rancilio Rock/Silva set and that will keep you loving the setup for several years. I am ready for an upgrade after owning this for about a decade.

Take a look in Craigslist. I have seen several nice setup's go for 50% off of what a new one would go for. Just the other day I saw a Rocky grinder go for $200ish. Sure they are used, but a nice setup should last a long time, and they are fairly easily repaired if you ever do need to fix it. A gasket on the group head and thermometer is all I have replaced in 10 years! Both are easy do-it-yourself repairs.

Certainly an espresso machine setup is not cheap, but it's not cheap in Italy or Switzerland either; just the name of the game.

[floydpink]

Just to add.. I totally think that if you want a good setup and are a little short on budget, the refurbished stuff from WLL is better than buying new crappy stuff.

I was told that they totally strip the machines and replace all parts that are worn as well as warranty them.

Not sure if it's as good as new, but my grinder has performed flawlessly for 2 years now, as has my Gaggia.

[Bruins Fan]

I have a Breville Caferoma I use it several times a day for the past three years.
I paid around 250.00 great machine.

[Mister Moo]

Good luck, guy. From your $500 starting point you now have rock solid recommendations from honest brothers for going grinder, going high, going low and going rebuilt in the middle. My take is, we're all right (for different reasons).

(Get the grinder and the moka pot.)

[trogdor]

Brikkas are more fun and less work than regular old mokapots. Mukkas look great, too, and although I've never tried one the videos I've seen look pretty sweet. Consider getting her one of those two (or both!) and an Aeropress.

However, if you drop the cash for good equipment and she gets neurotic enough to make real espresso well, you should be in for a serious treat! Barista at home!

[DocLogic77]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

I have a the Rancilio Rock/Silva set and that will keep you loving the setup for several years. I am ready for an upgrade after owning this for about a decade.

Take a look in Craigslist. I have seen several nice setup's go for 50% off of what a new one would go for. Just the other day I saw a Rocky grinder go for $200ish. Sure they are used, but a nice setup should last a long time, and they are fairly easily repaired if you ever do need to fix it. A gasket on the group head and thermometer is all I have replaced in 10 years! Both are easy do-it-yourself repairs.

Certainly an espresso machine setup is not cheap, but it's not cheap in Italy or Switzerland either; just the name of the game.

I have the same set up and I'm loving it.

Bill, I really like my KitchenAid Espresso/Cappi machine. It's all manual operation, so you have to be good to get it right. Mine was about $750 with another $250 in the KitchenAid grinder. You might be able to find them used for the budget you are looking for. I don't use my machine as often as I'd like, but I use the grinder every day.

[TanithT]

+1 on the Rancilio Silvia. It's the cheapest actual espresso machine you can buy. The rest aren't the real thing; they're missing stuffs. However the Solis Maestro will do the espresso grinding job pretty damn decently for $100 reconditioned, $150 new.

For *really* cheap, though it's more like the output of the lesser espresso machines and technically it's espresso strength coffee, I recommend the Aerobie Aeropress very highly.

I tried saving money on making home espresso before I pulled the trigger on a real set-up. Started with a 4 Cup Brikka (because I couldn't find a 2 Cup in the US) and a Zass Knee Mill. That worked out pretty good, and I was fooling myself that I was drinking espresso for a little while. Then I found a 2 Cup Brikka, which I found to be more consistent than the 4...and worked with that, again believing I was drinking true espresso.

But dammit...this interweb thing brings so much f'n information to you that the bug was still very much alive in me, and alas I began to figure out how much I was willing to spend. I budgeted $800 for a machine and grinder. I was targeting a Silvia/Rocky set-up...but as others chimed in, the little voice in the back of my head (the same one that tells me that I never have enough cigars, regardless if I have no place to store them) had me out shopping beyond my budget. Fortunately...I had my Zass Knee Mill, so I had a grinder that would keep up with the best of them (yes...that is a true statement). I didn't know anything about machines, but I had $800 to put towards one now. Gaggia was a name on the top of the list, but then I quickly learned of Expobar and heat exchange and single vs double boilers, blah, blah, blah... Long story short, I found an unused Livia 90 Semi Auto on craigslist for $800 and it got the blessing of all who had given me advise. Pair that with the Zass...and I was up and running...so I thought. Grinding espresso by hand is no joy at all...let me tell you. Especially when your first grind is typically a sink shot. I'm real big on tradition...but this wasn't doing it for me. Patience isn't a strong suit for me. I had an unexpected settlement come through at just the right time, and I sprung for a Macap M4 Stepless grinder. At the time I think I got it shipped for somewhere in the mid $500 range.
Now...I could have some fun. Getting a good grinder is probably going to be the biggest determining factor as to whether you'll continue to make (or at least try) espresso at home, or hang it up after a few months. Seriously! Don't skimp on a grinder. It really is the biggest part of the process. I can typically nail my shots with no more than one sinker (stepless is the balls).

As far as beans...I like Black Cat, Klatch's Belle Espresso (try this NOW!!!) and the stuff I pick up at Whole Foods. I'm seriously thinking of letting both of my Brikka's go since they're decoration on top of my fridge at the moment. A Brikka is the only way to really get a real decent espresso-like stovetop brew. Other moka's are good, but different.

I'm such a mental case, that I even spent the money to have Pasquini send me the stainless drip tray for the Livia. OMG what a difference it made in appearance. After all...your works have to look good when they're just sitting there right? lol



Might I suggest checking out the Coffeegeek Forum if you haven't found it already.

My version of shots and cigars...

[Mister Moo]

Originally Posted by klipsch

My version of shots and cigars...

Nice kit.

[germantown rob]

Originally Posted by Humidor Minister

My LOML is a Cappuccino fanatic. She's wanting a very nice machine. Nothing over 500 or so. It'll be her X-Mas gift so I have to start planning now. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Ok, back to original programing and the OP's question.

The Le'Lit PL041 is coming in highly recommended by the geeks. It is on sale now and at this price blows the competition away and leaves room to get a grinder that is up to the task.

http://www.1st-line.com/machines/hom...elit/PL041.htm