Cyanide

Actually the only wood left in the view is that which is glued (some gawd aweful super glue, I can't pull the wood up). The platform I already pulled up had about 1.5 inches of plywood on top of 2 X 4s or maybe 2 X 6s, can't remember.

But, I have my utility light on it drying it all out.....and the truest answer to my problem has come to light. There is a crack right above where the cleanout branches from the main pipe. That is the most "smoking gun" I have come across yet.

So, now its solved, I have to break up some concrete to get around the pipe. Then I will just replace it with pipe that doesn't have a clean out (as I have a clean out in this pipe already under the kitchen sink, about 10 feet above this clean out).

Well, at least I no longer have to wonder.

And, the drain is one of those wedge and gasket types.

Ah, Hell. I hate breaking concrete.

Cheers

Cy