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Need some advice on long term aging!
Alright, I am gettin ready to do some MAJOR stocking up of bulk tobacco's for short & long term aging. I'm looking at almost 10 pounds for this order!! (thank you uncle sam!)I have a couple of questions for those of you guys that have been around the block in the pipe world in this regard.
First off is this; my initial thinking is I would be better off breaking it all down to store this stuff ALL in the smaller 1/2 pint wide mouth Kerr jars. My reasoning is I could just grab one to open as I go along to smoke, allowing the rest to continue aging without me disrupting its environment everytime I want to move some to a smoking container. At first this seems a no brainer but I also see a couple downsides to this: First being by my simple math I'm guessing I would need atleast 6 dozen of the 1/2 pint jars! Probably more like 7 dozen. Thats alot of damn jars! I am thinking aprox 2 oz tobacco per jar of what comes in a non-flake or pressed tobacco, and probably a bit more for what comes in flake. Some of the order will only be 2 or 4 oz "samples" so I will cram those fuller since they will be in the "to smoke" cabinet. What comes with that is mostly the storage space, but secondly cost for them all! I have decent storage at the moment, but I am wondering from those with experience if the hassle of maintaining this many jars over the long term time frame is or would be worth the extra effort? Or should I just condense it all into full pint jars and be done with it? I would like to see some of it make it to 5, 8, maybe even 10 years and beyond if possible! But I also plan to smoke each different blend as I go along as well. My second question is jar suppliers. Where do you guys that store your baccy in canning jars get them? I've so far bought 2 dozen at a local grocery store as thats the only place I could find them locally, but they were about $15 a case, and I know for a fact they don't have another 7 cases of them! I haven't found any good online sources with much of a discount yet. Any ideas besides hunting locally and paying the price? And lastly, for those of you who have went down this path of long term storage, what advice or tips & hints would you offer someone gettin ready to take this approach?? Thanks for your time if you read through all this, and thanks in advance for any help or advice you can offer!! |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
I got my mason jars at Smart and Final and I think they were about 12 bucks a case. I have yet to find a way to seal them air tight with out using heat. I read a story by Pease that talked about how his friend had aged a tin of Odyssey in a Mason jar that he boiled out first and loaded with baccy while it was still hot. The hot mason jar essentially baked the tobacco again leaving it nothing like the same blend that had been aged for the same amount of time. Good luck with this and I wait with bated breath like you to find the answer.
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Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
Mason jars can be used without heating the contents up.
you will need a vacuum sealer and a jar attachment. Do a search for this you'll come up with some good hits. |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
If you can, I'd get a few larger mason jars for your bigger purchases; a little air exchange won't hurt much, but you can always reseal it (just get enough out for the time being so you won't have to go into it so often); I'd check walmart or a dollar store for the jars.
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Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
When I went on a jar hunt recently. The only luck I had was at Big Lots. Seems the season is a factor (your area may vary). Like the idea of using the Foodsaver jar sealer, but I haven't been in the game long enough to offer long term results.
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Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
Thanks for the tips so far!
I re-read through the aging and cellering FAQ online again and think I have come to the conclusion of doing it how I initially planned. I'm going to go for the lots of smaller jars route. I think for me this is the best idea as far as my smoking pace and how I feel about opening and closing the jars overtime and how that will affect the aging process. I was pretty much leaning this way already, but was really more curious about those who may have done it this way and wish they would have gone another route or vice versa.. Maybe it was a hassle dealing with all the jars or after a while the space became an issue. Maybe they stored theres in larger jars and wish they would have went with smaller ones etc etc. I have pretty much decided on the way I will go about the actual "canning" process of the jars so that is covered. I looked pretty hard again last night and still didn't come up with a wholsale type solution on the jars via the web. Cheapest I found non-branded "wholesale" jars after lids & shipping still came out to aprox $100 for 72 of them. This is either right at or more then buying them locally. :( Kind of hard to believe that somewhere on the internet there isn't a better solution. In me searches last night, I actually found countless other people in various activities looking for the same thing. Cheap wholesale canning jars. Could be a lucrative market! :D Any other thoughts/ideas/opinions/experiences are still greatly appreciated! |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
I think that due to the weight, shipping would be too costly to do for jars. Better to get them at the local store, or stores. That's where I get them. Usually pick up a couple cases every couple weeks when I do a large order.
I also break up large orders into smaller jars. For bulk Virginias and cakes, I can fit about 3 ounces comfortably. Remember, you want some air in there for the aging process. That's why canning is preferable to vacuum sealing in a bag. No air, not much difference in aging. I'd still boil water in the jars for the sterilization factor. You'd hate to have a small amount of bacteria on the lid or in the jar, put your treasured baccy in, and 5 years later open up a jar of mold. It's happened. I use this, as some others have suggested. Foodsaver. And, I use this attachment for mason jars. Aside from doing a great job of sealing mason jars (I've never had one that didn't seal perfectly) it has saved me hundreds, if not a thousand dollars in food storage. Well worth the money. WWhermit |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
How good would the sealing process be if you just closed the lid tight on a mason jar? Or should you definitely seal it up?
Derek, check around bro. My local grocery store has em for damn cheap out here. The smaller ones are under 6 bucks for a dozen including lids. |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
Good info Hermit!!
Couple questions for you: when you say smaller jars and you usually get about 3oz's per jar, are you talking about the 1/2 pint or full pint jars? In one paragraph you say: "That's why canning is preferable to vacuum sealing in a bag. No air, not much difference in aging" Then in another you recommend a vacuum sealing product? Am I missing something here?? Or is vacuum sealing it in a jar better then in a bag because the jar will leave some air in it? And am I reading it correctly that you have to buy special lids or something for the sealing attatchment deal?? I'm not getting a clear answer on that from what I'm reading.. My wife has been wanting one of these foodsaver deals for a while now, and hey if I can get some use out of it all the better!! |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
Pipesandcigars offers vacuum sealing for a dollar. Might be an easy route. I have yet to get that but, might be worth a shot.
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Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
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When you seal in a bag, it takes out 99% of the air. Not enough air to facilitate aging. When you seal in a mason jar, you can't get all the air out, just enough to create an air tight seal. With tobacco, you don't even really see a difference when the vacuum is complete. You do, however, when you try to take the lid off. Most of the time you have to pry it off with a knife. Even after a year. #2. No special lids required at all. In fact, for tobacco, since I boil water in the jar in the microwave, and sterilize the lid in boiling water in a small saucepan, I use the same jars/lids over and over until they can't seal anymore. I've only had one do that. #3. If you shop at Costco, they sell them there. It comes with a package of bags, I believe. You can buy the rolls there too, to make your own sized bags. And, you can buy meat and cheese in bulk, vacuum them in the bags, and toss the meat in the freezer. I've taken steaks out that were a year old, and found no difference in the meat quality. Your wife will love it. We used to throw out about 30-50% of our meat from the freezer due to burn or just going bad. Now, we don't throw any away. You will make your money back in the first 2 months. WWhermit |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
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WWhermit |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
Alright Hermit, you've convinced me!!
I saw the one on the costco website which is a great deal! However when I was cruising the web double checking things I found a coupon code that gets you 40% off the same one direct from the manu. This one even comes with the wide mouth jar sealer attatchment! So I bought this one: V2830 which they had "on sale" for $99.99. If you add in one more thing to your shopping cart to push it over $100.00 you get free shipping, so I added this cannister for $3.49. This put me at $103.48, which gets me the free shipping, and then I add in this code during the checkout: L8FAV28. This gets you the 40% off and is supposedly good through 1/31/09. Shipped to my door I got the kit on its way for $67 after sales tax in my state! Not too shabby of a deal as far as I can tell, especially that in the hour previous to going for this one, I was prepared to spend $129 plus extra for the jar sealer. It pays to look around!! And yep, I do believe the wife will be very pleased! :D Valentines day gift: CHECK. Now to order to up that baccy!! |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
Is there any way to effectively seal a mason jar like this with out buying a food saver.
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Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
Big D scores!! Nice job, man. I'm sure you'll be very happy with it.
In answer to the question of sealing a mason jar without the Foodsaver. Yes, you can. You have to heat it up with boiling water inside. Let the glass heat up and boil the lid in water at the same time. Dump the water out. Put the tobacco in quickly, put the lid on, and secure the ring. When the glass cools, and the air inside cools, it creates a vacuum. You'll know if you did it right when you press on the lid, and it doesn't pop up. There is some concern that you can "cook" the tobacco with heat while doing this process. I've only done it this way a few times, and didn't have a problem. Maybe if I got the glass hotter it would have happened, I dunno. The glass cools down fairly quickly. Best of luck. WWhermit :pi |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
I guess I could do that and then stick it in the fridge right away. That may help to stunt any further "stoving."
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Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
Yea I had read about the heating way of getting a good seal, and honestly the whole process just seems like a huge hassle! (I wont be messing with the wax sealing either!) Thats why when you mentioned the vac sealer setup I became very interested! Seamed way easier, I just wasn't sure of the thought vac sealing the jars. But I am ok with it now. I agree that there will be some air left in the jars and I think it should be enough to facilitate aging.
Hermit I appreciate your help greatly! I may end up bugging you a couple times over the next week as things start showing up since you've been down this path before! One question I still have you didn't address is in your very first reply, you mentioned small jars and that you usually got 3oz per jar, is that for the half pint small jars or whole pint? Do you happen to have a pic of one of your jars all sealed up? I am still curious about how much I should be putting in each jar and how much air space should be left. ok Baccy is ordered, Foodsaver is ordered, now to hunt down them damn jars over the weekend! |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
The way that I see it is that you are probably kicking out a decent amount of $$$ for this tobacco.
Spend the money now to seal it up properly (mason jars have proven themselves to me) because you don't want to open up a jar of tobacco 10 years from now and find it ruined. If you break it down to each individual jar, I buy a 12 pack of the wide mouth quart jars to split up a pound of tobacco into four 4oz containers. I buy them for about $10 for the case. That's less than a $1 for each jar and I know that when I pull them in 10 years they will be fine. I use the boil method to seal mine. That's just my preferance. Again, it has proven itself to me. |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
Right on S_T, and yea some pretty good coin got spent so I want to take the right steps for sure!!
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Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
Yep with Slow Triathlete,
I use the quart jars, I believe, and get about 3 ounces, maybe a little more, in the jar. I just put enough in so there's about 1 inch of space left on top, for the air. You may be able to get more in, depending on the tobacco. This is for ribbon cut. Cake and coins you will get more into the jar. Target has some small jars, like 1/4 pint or smaller. They are round on top, square on the bottom and about 2-4 inches tall. The Foodsaver cannot seal these due to the shape of the jar, so avoid those if you can. Regular mason jars, wide mouth are fine. I see now that Foodsaver sells attachment for narrow size mason jars also. I may pick one up. I'll try to get a picture or two up here soon. And feel free to bug me all ya want, always willing to help if I can. It's easier than it seems, believe me. Just remember to boil water in the jar to kill any bacteria. WWhermit :pi |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
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Nice reading this thread. Some good info here. My mother in law has a foodsaver, so all I would need to buy is the attachment. It wasn't clear to me when reading above, does using the jar sealer attachment require special lids, or can you seal with the mason jar lids on? -Tyler |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
You use the same lid that comes with the mason jar. Put the lid on, use Foodsaver, then secure with the ring. Done.
WWhermit |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
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Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
Got the jars last night! Went to a few more stores and found a much better deal on them this time. Found them at Price Choppers grocery store under $10 a case of 12 each! Much better!
While I was there I saw the pint sized jars which I hadn't paid attention to before and yea I can see where that is a good size for this purpose! So I split my list half and half between 1/2 pint & pint. 3 cases of each. I can see where the bulkier cuts would be better in the slightly bigger jars. I also have 9 unused quart jars I forgot I had! I know the 1/2 pint are small, but with my smoking pace which is no more then usually 5 to 7 bowls during the week maybe one extra a day on the weekends, it can take me a while to get through 3-4oz! Hell its taking me a while to get through 2 oz in some cases! Especially when I do have various other tobaccos open to smoke from. So I figured I would do up half of the bulk for each blend in the 1/2 pint jars and the other half in the pints. This way if I only want to crack open a couple oz's in a year or two to see how the blend is doing, I don't have to sit on twice that much to smoke through. I dunno, just seems to make sense for how I see this working out. Hell if my pace picks up then I'll just crack 2 of the 1/2 pints in 10 years! :D Anyway's here is a pic of the jars. I will be getting them cleaned up ready to go over the next couple of day's sealing them with saran wrap after I am done to keep the germs & such out till the tobacco gets here! I got the boiling water bit for the jars under control, what process should be followed for de-contaminating the lids? http://home.comcast.net/~fuscat/pipes/jars1.jpg |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
While I boil the water in the jars in the microwave, I take the lids and put them in a small saucepan and boil water on the stove. Easy to do, about 1 inch of water. USE TONGS! It's damn hot, them lids. Use a towel for the jars too. Learned that one the hard way. :rolleyes:
To answere More...'s question, I can't be 100% sure, but I think it comes with a hose. My wife's bought some canisters, and the mason jar attachment, and with all that crap we ended up with 2 hoses. So I'd like to tell you yes, but 1% holds me back. WWhermit :pi |
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Gotcha on the lids! Since I plan to have all the jars prepped and ready before the baccy (and foodsaver) arrives, I think what I will do is get out the gigantic stew pot and boil them all that way. I'll have 81 lids to do so that way might work better! I'll just do them all at once.
I would think I'd be ok to do this ahead of time as well? I could just boil them all then let them dry face down on a CLEAN towel, stack them up and saran wrap them till I'm ready? I'd love to have everything prepped so all I gotta do is start breakin down tobacco and jar it up, run it through the sealer and stack them up! |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
For morefifemusic, from the research I did on the foodsaver's the other day, it looks like all the current ones come with the attatchment hose. Depending on when she got it and what one she got, she may or may not have the hose. The deal I found on the one I posted actually comes with the hose AND the wide mouth jar sealer attatchment which was what swayed me to that perticular model. I found the coupon which saved me 40% AFTER I had settled on the model! I got lucky! :D
In regards to purchasing the jar sealers after the fact, according to user reviews on amazon.com, the wide mouth jar sealer comes with an attatchment hose, the regular mouth jar sealer does not for some reason.. Amazon lists them both ways. For $8.99 you can get it without the hose if she has hers here. Or if you do need the hose this one comes with it for a few bucks more according to the reviews. |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
Just a heads up. I tried to put 4oz of baccy, ribbon cut, in a pint jar tonight. Tight fit. Id stick with 2oz in the pints, and 4 in the quarts.
The pint jars would be great for stashing an open tin in to delay drying. Quart seems to be the way to go for me. Going to have to buy more now... |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
Big D, I expected to see a post of your cellaring with the Foodsaver by now.
What's the happ's? WWhermit :pi |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
I borrowed the in-laws foodsaver and used it on a couple of jars. Man, that works so much easier (I have previously used wax, which sucks!).
Thanks for the idea. -Tyler |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
ME TOO Hermit!! :r
Unfortunately I have simply been waiting on the tobacco to arrive! I ordered from pipesandcigars.com and they just aren't the fastest when it comes to order picking and shipping it seems. I ordered on 1/30, didn't hear anything back other then the initial email I recieved stating they got the order. On 2/4 I called to check status, found out "oh looks like I am a bit behind on emails, we are out of stock on one item and I need to find out what you want us to do, I would have been emailing you today". Good thing I called or it would have been another couple of days I'm sure. It was supposed to have shipped that afternoon on 2/4. Anyway I sent them an email last night again checking status, this morning I get a reply saying they apologize, I should have gotten a tracking number email sent out. It also contained the tracking number, I checked it and it shows delivered! So there should be a nice big box waiting for me when I get home tonight!! Pics should follow in the next couple days! The lids were boiled yesterday, all the prep work has been done. The foodsaver came in mid-week last week. (My wife simply loves it! She repackaged our entire deep freeze and since ran it out of bag rolls already, Costco look out! lol!) |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
Big D,
Ain't that the truth about pipesandcigars!?!?!? I've ordered from them at least 5 times in the last year, and it seems that something always happens to prevent them from shipping, and you won't find out until you call. I just make sure it's not an "emergency order" to give them plenty of time. They still have great prices, so I'll continue to use them. Glad to hear your wife likes the foodsaver. We have saved so much money on food using that thing. Get them pics up. Anxious to see the cellar! WWhermit :pi |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
Holy Smokes! And I mean that literally!!
I was up WAY too late last night canning 'baccy! That was a lot of work, more than I thought it would be thats for sure! I'm not completely satisfied with how the distribution of the jars went. I should have stuck with my original plan of using all half pint jars for the most part I think. Since I went half and half on the pint & half pint jars I ended up putting more then I wanted in some of the pint jars since I was running out of half pints and still had a ways to go. I may end up getting some more half pint jars and re-doing some of it. Anyway I have a TON of pics to go through & edit! I will get them up over the next couple days! |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
Well here is the update:
I did end up getting more half pints and re-doing all the ones I could. Still had a few pints that I used for the blocks of anniversary kake that worked out well. Much happier with it now! I got some prelimenary pics to post. And I have to admit I feel like I'm a dumbass. I was in a hurry to get the pics done to get started on editing. Onn the pics of the end results I had left the macro mode on by accident so they turned out blurry. :( I normally don't do crap like that, but oh well. I didn't realize it till they were all put away so too late now! On to the pics! The order as it was recieved: http://home.comcast.net/~fuscat/pipe...p&c/order1.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~fuscat/pipe...p&c/order2.jpg Here was the end result as of last night before I re-packed some of the tobacco into the half pints today: http://home.comcast.net/~fuscat/pipes/tob/p&c/jar3.jpg And here it was after re-packing: http://home.comcast.net/~fuscat/pipes/tob/p&c/can2.jpg The order list: H&H Anniversary Kake: 1lb H&H AJ's VaPer: 1lb Peter Stokkebye Luxury Bulls Eye Flake: 1.5lb Peter Stokkebye Luxury Twist Flake: 1.5lb Peter Stokkebye Luxury Navy Flake: 1.5lb Peter Stokkebye Balkan Supreme: 1lb S/G St James Flake: 4oz C&D Night Train: 4oz C&D Pirate Kake: 4oz C&D Bayou Morning: 4oz C&D Billy Budd: 4oz H&H Sampler, 2oz ea of: Sunza *****es Armada Ten to Midnight Larry's Blend Sunjammer Rolando's Own |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
And here is the blurry one. Sucks 'cus it would have been a good pic too!
http://home.comcast.net/~fuscat/pipes/tob/p&c/can1.jpg |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
Very awesome!
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Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
I love their Anniversary Kake, and one you don't hear much about, but should, their Sunza *****es! That's very good baccy there.
I'm very proud of you Big D. You've taken a big step towards showing us what a proper tobacco order is. Out of curiosity, what did all that cost ya? WWhermit :pi |
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lol, my wife thinks im nuts! :D
Nah I don't mind, in addition to all the pipe tobacco I also added in a couple of the $9.99 mini bundle cigars and the total cost was just shy of $290! I think $270ish would be about what all the pipe tobacco alone would have been. Not too bad for 10lbs I didn't think, puts it all right at $1.68 per ounce average. I wanted to get atleast one big bulk batch under my belt. I wanted to put some down to start aging while I'm enjoying the others I am currently smoking. I think my goal will be to make a big bulk order like this atleast once a year. I will also try to do an order of around one pound minimum every other month now that I have the space to store it, the equipment to do it right, and the know how to complete the process! It's not getting any cheaper, and at some point probably during my lifetime it will probably end up being outlawed! It was a fun process! I appreciate the help and insight you gave me Hermit! |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
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Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
did you boil and seal em? or use that vaccuum sealer thingy?
ive canned about 8 oz so far, and I have just screwed the lid down tight on my jars... |
Re: Need some advice on long term aging!
All vacuum sealed with the foodsaver! Literally only takes a few seconds each jar.
Now for my current "to be smoked" cabinet, i just screw the lids on. All these were sealed for longer term storage. |
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