How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long Post
 

There will be constant discussion around whether or not to freeze your cigars and whether it impacts flavor or not. If the risk of potential damage in the form of burst wrappers, loss of flavor, or drying out is worth taking a risk on having cigar beetles. I have enclosed a couple of the more extreme versions of what happens to cigars after these critters get to them. It can happen in both Cuban and Non-Cuban varieties.

I have had 1st hand experience with cigar beetles on two occasions costing me several fine sticks (ok 4 cigars, but in my mind that is several) and while in the second case the vendor took care of me I have since decided that the money, time, and effor that I put into this hobby in all forms is worth the time to handle incoming inventory properly. As such I have spent considerable time researching the various aspects of cigar beetles and how to kill them.

One of the first things to understand is that although many producers including cubans may flash freeze their cigars that is only one poin on the stop to your humidor. Also cigars are very insulative and given that we do not fully know the quality control of the producer there is risk that eggs are not killed. In addition there are points along the way that beetles can be introduced, secondary wholesaler, vendor, or sadly that fellow BOTL or SOTL that so kindly bombed you are sold you a few sticks. So prevention in my mind is the key.

I have adopted a 100% freeze policy, that means that every stick that enters my house is frozen before being tranferred to my humidors regardless of where they come from or how they are shipped and regardless of outside weather. After two infestations I have never had one single case.

The are many opinions around how long it takes to kill the various stages of beetles. I have read many different forums and finally started searching for research rather than word of mouth. After reading several similar studies with varying degrees of testing and information I settled on one that I felt was most comprehensive for a Cigar Smokers needs.

The study is

Low-temperature as an alternative to fumigation to disinfest stored tobacco of the cigarette beetle, Lasioderma serricorne (F.) (Coleoptera: Anobiidae)

Completed and submitted on April 2005 revised October 2005 as undertaken at the Leaf Tobacco Research Center, Japan Tobacco Inc.

If you want to read it I have it in pdf it is a bit of a dry read but for me it was interesting.

One other thing I did was check the average temperature of my freezer. If you don't have a thermometer I have looked and found that the average temperature of a household freezer is between -12 and -18 degrees Celsius and if you go with the higher temp and work from there there is little risk.

Many people will tell you that the freezing will ruin the taste of the cigars. I have my opinion and that is there is no discernable difference. In addition I have bombed, gifted, traded, sold several hundred cigars to members of this board and others and not one has told me that the cigar tasted like it was "frozen" opinions will vary on this but there is little if any imperical evidence either way.

Last peice before I lay out the process is one excerpt from the white paper, and that is the mortality table for all stages of cigar beetles and various temperatures.

Egg

-20 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 1 hr
-15 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 4 hr
-10 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 12 hr
-5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 48 hr
0 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 240 hr
5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 336 hr


Larval

-20 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 1 hr
-15 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 3 hr
-10 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 12 hr
-5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 96 hr
0 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 288 hr
5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 336 hr

Acclimated Larval (acclimated at 15 Celsius for 3 months to determine acclimation impact if any)

-20 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 1 hr
-15 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 6 hr
-10 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 24 hr
-5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 504 hr
0 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 1176 hr
5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 1680 hr

Pupal

-20 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 1 hr
-15 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 4 hr
-10 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 48 hr
-5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 288 hr
0 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 840 hr


Adult

-20 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 1 hr
-15 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 2 hr
-10 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 2 hr
-5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 72 hr
0 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 288 hr
5 degrees C Time to 100% mortality 840 hr

This information is the information I used to determine my process.

Given the insulative properties of a box of cigars I deduced (ok fully guessed) that doubling the time would be sufficient to bring the cigars to the appropriate temperature for the appropriate time. It is important to remember that this was direct exposure to these temperatures for the bugs not nestled into a box of your favorite sticks.

The following is my process based on what I have read and adjusted from the above and others.

1. I vacumm seal my cigars in freezer grade bags ( I use a food saver food vacuum for boxes but be cautious it can crush a spanish cedar box easily) or a straw and lung power for singles. While some folk double bag if you are using food quality freezer grade I don't see a need for this.

2. I then put the cigars in the fridge to slowly lower the temperature closer to the freezing point to prevent possible wrapper bursting from rapid freeze, I also assume (again a guess) that it is gentler on the cigars. I leave them there for 12 hours.

3. I then move the cigars to the freezer where they will stay for 48 hours this ensures that the temperature is reached and any potential bugs are more than dead.

4. The cigars then go back to the fridge to allow for a little slower thaw, this is done for between 12-24 hours.

5. I then remove the cigars from the fridge and keep them in the back and allow them to come up to room temperature (3-5 hours)

6. Out of the bag and back in the humidor where they will rest for a couple of weeks to acclimate to the RH% that I like as would any stick from a vendor.

Here are a couple of pictures of beetles and the damage that they can cause.


Pupal Adult and Larval

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1231817896


What used to be some beautiful Cubans

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1231817978


What used to be some beautiful Non Cubans

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1231818036

The dust beside is what you will see if you suspect beetles and tap your cigar on white paper, the dust is beetle dung.

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1231818059






I have tried to cover most everything I could think of and provide some background information, if something is unclear or you have questions please feel free to PM me.

Hope you found this useful.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Great info... I haven't finished reading yet but I'll be starting shortly. However, I wanted to post that those pictures nearly made me cry. Especially the Padrons... so sad.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

If I keep my cigars at a low temp (high 50's low 60's) will that keep the eggs at bay till they are pyro'd?

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Bump for later reference....

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Great post, I am with you Fox, I freeze everything.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Great info, thanks!

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

i hope im safe at 60degs.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Great post, Fox! I was greatly saddened to see those pictures of the damaged sticks.

I will be reading your addendum's tomorrow, and I will probably be following your example, especially with sticks that are incoming! :D




:dance::dance::dance:

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Awesome post...although your pictures made me want to cry...Thanks for the info Shawn!

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Excellent post!


Some additional information from my own firsthand experiences:

Beetles will eat or gnaw through anything. This includes cellophane, polypropylene bags, freeze bags from airtight sealers,cork, cedar boxes, cardboard packaging, and (drumroll please).....thin aluminum tubes! Yes, I have found tubes that bear the unmistakable small round holes signifying damage from beetles. I've seen it twice, and that was enough for me to even be cautious about tubos too. The only things I trust are glass and hard rubber, and I don't exactly see many cigars in a glass tube or box these days.

Beetles can and DO hatch at 60*. Some are occasionally capable of sustaining life at very low temperatures (not below freezing however) and will still come back to haunt you. The absolute best insurance is to freeze them for a period of time.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

very informative reference piece... much appreciated info.

Interesting about the taste factor. That would be the decisive factor for me about freezing.

I probably will not freeze, hoping it will never be me. I open my humis and poke around pretty regularly.

Thanks again.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

I freeze on occasion. Now that I will have a large humi (closet) I will be freezeing all that goes in it! I started the process about a week ago.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

habanos SA since mid 2006 has used industrial freezing which many articles state. Im interested however as ive never frozen before, the freezing will kill beetles and larvae but will all eggs be destroyed if i follow this process? Or will they go dormant and inactive but still live?

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

No eggs will not survive see the first portion of the table in red above showing how long at what temp to kill eggs.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Cuesta-Rey Fino Sungrown... just off the top of my head


To Shawn:

Thanks for not putting the temps in F for all us Celcius-impared Americans!

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Heres yah go....Eh

http://www.wbuf.noaa.gov/tempfc.htm

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Thanks Keith, but as you know, we Americans are notoriously lazy as well... I would really have preferred if Shawn had done it for me... just sayin! :r:r:r

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Here you go, so you don't have to go convert on another site:
-20C = -4F
-15C = 5F
-10C = 14F
-5C = 23F
0C = 32F
+5F = 41F
+10C = 50F


Great writeup SilverFox. Thanks. I think I might start freezing my sticks.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

you guys are really making it difficult and less fun for me to bust Shawn's balls... but thanks for the info!

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

I was initially going to post in degrees Kelvin but I was worried some crazy inmate would put his cigars in the oven.

-20C = 253K

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

I don't freeze, but keep my vino and coolers at or below 60 in winter and 65 during summer.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

LOL -- so what's the life expectancy of the beetle (or Inmate) at Absolute Zero?

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Thats it Moe..............."No Soup For You" :D

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

:r:r:r
http://dissonanced.files.wordpress.c...up_nazi017.jpg

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

I have to disagree with you here. I personally have had eggs hatch after freezing twice.

I know you and I have had discussion before about this subject. After you showed me before the information you had, I accepted it and have had no problems. But a couple weeks ago, I had a run in again with a beetle. I know these sticks were frozen and the particular stick was frozen twice. Maybe I am the exception :(

Any thoughts on how this happened?

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

perhaps they were not frozen for a long enough period?

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

I used the exact method that SilverFox laid out the first time. And the second time they were frozen for 96 hours (4 days).

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Could the bettle have come from other sticks? Maybe after you froze?

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

That's the only thing I can think of. But I freeze everything now. Incoming from BOTL's and bought sticks. If it did come from some other stick, I didn't see any holes in another cigar. I checked every single cigar.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Good post, Shawn. I was always somewhat ambivalent to freezing, until I found one of my sticks (a tubo, no less) with a beetle hole. All stock then went through the freeze and all incoming continues to. I love all my BOTL/SOTL, but still, I don't know where your stuff's been. I do after I freeze them.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

That box of Padrons is a nightmare...

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Are we going to have to start considering cigar condoms?

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

I was getting ready to smoke a stick that I was bombed when I noticed a small hole... Inside the hole were tunnels with 3 beetles...

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

While I believe in the study I don't have any doubt that what you say is true.

Which leads me to believe that your beetles are somewhere else, perhaps in your humi? Maybe they are indigenous to your area? Do you frequent a B&M that might have them?

Knowing your penchant for research Wayne I am assuming you have thought of these things already.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

I two have had a beetle outbreak twice and I freeze everything that comes in, I haven't had a problem sense I started this.. Only difference is I throw them directly into the freezer first..

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

ok i have to ask, is there anyway to screw-up freezing cigars? like not taking out enough air, to many cigars in a bag?

are there any extra precautions i should take? i know the instructions are straight forward, but somehow i can find a way to screw it up. i think will try it out first on one cigar.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Some articles say freezing cracks the microscopic eggs , others say it just makes live larvae and beetles die and the eggs go dormant. There are studies done after multiple freezings , then being exposed to high temps and the cigars have been overrun by beetles. Theres also studies where microwaves were used to kill the eggs and some eggs survived. Personally i dont know maybe these bastards survive all extremes like roaches, but if i see any infestation i wont hestitate to fuk them, eye for an eye i say :)

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

hey, if it fits, go for it! :tu

:r:r:r

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Who's a bad little beetle , yes u are , yes u are **rub, rub rub** LOL

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

roflmao!!!!!

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Thanks For All the great advice & Pics., Shawn!:tu

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

theres a url showing the beetles penis under a microscope, i wont post it here though lol. I thought it was tobii for a second :D

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Yeah, that's the thing. I have thought of just about every aspect of how this could happen. The only thing I can figure is that the eggs were not killed, and my temps in FL get high. Most people on here have Vino's or some other type of temp control be it electric or because they live in areas not as hot as FL. So the freeze is a great tool, it just sucked that it did not work 100% for me :(

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

fortunately you discovered the infestation before it caused major damage

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

And I think that is upmost in the discussion of beetles and cigars.

I don't have a large collection of smokes. So I can go through my whole collection, stick by stick, in around 30 minutes. Most of those horrible pics you see were of cigars that have been left alone for some while. That is the real danger with dealing with beetles. If you go through your cigars regularly, you will be able to catch any traces of beetles. I know there are a good number of BOTL's who's collections may not be huge, so IMO beetles are not a great risk to them. If you see one you will be able to kill it and more than likely save the stick or two it made a hole in.

But there are also those BOTL's who have loads of cigars, boxes, etc. In those cases a box may not be opened for a year or more. That is when beetles can become a real problem to your collection. These unchecked "aging" boxes become a literal feeding/breeding gorund for tobacco beetles.

Freezing is a great precaution and preventative step in maintaining sanity about your smokes. But if your collection is small to begin with, you will probably smoke through or examine by happenstance the sticks you have before they become a problem.

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Is it possible the beetle infestation may not be in the cigars but in the humidor itself? I know that once an infestation breaks out, you not only have to freeze the cigars, but also clean up the humidor. Maybe you missed a pocket in there somewhere?

This assumes of course, the cigars were frozen long enough to ensure the core of the cigar reached the temperature in question for the duration needed to kill off all the little buggers.

Anyways, for me at least, I don't freeze cigars mostly because as Wayner123 pointed out, I tend to monitor my cigars pretty regularly so the odds of having any cigars go for weeks/months without me at least eyeballing it once is remote. Not to mention, I'm a lazy bum and I hate having to deal with all the prep work for freezing/thawing cigars (although, I may start taking those precautions).

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

What do you think on the long term aging ( 10 years) for a box of cigars if freezed and not freezed.

Will we loose some aroma/essential oils flavour etc.

JFYI all cigars that are sold in Italy are freezed by the importer ( this means freezed twice as also in Cuba premium cigars (not all) are freezed).,

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

I have no imperical evidence either way as I have nothing that I have personally frozen that has been around in my humi for more than a year as that is how long ago I started freezing.

I believe that it would not have any impact as their is no loss of oils or aroma if they are fully sealed. Some may argue the other side of that, but my preference given that I have a larger collection (at least to me) and have boxes that may go unopened for years is that I freeze. I would rather risk the loss of a little flavor than open a box of dust in 3 years.

I think that this whole freezing thing is a case by case decision, Wayner made a good point earlier that if you have a relatively small collection and are looking at your sticks on a regular basis and smoke through them fairly quickly then freezing may not be necessary for you.

I have 1,400 plus cigars of which many are boxes that I have only opened upon receipt from the vendor and have not as yet reopened nor will I likely open them for some years to come so freezing is like buying insurance to me (which I also have on my cigars) I would rather not take the risk, I have invested much money time and effort into my collection.

Hope this helps

Re: How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long
 

Shawn if you want you can send me around 700 of them and I can assure you I will personally finger f#^(*!! each one weekly to make sure no beetles pop up!!!

Just trying to help out!!!:)