Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

And all the other newer nc's we love.

Hello to higher prices and nothing new forever.

This nanny state bs is more than one can bear.

Better stock up boys because option 1 it is.

@&%? the FDA.

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

They will need to submit their products to the FDA if they want to say in business. They are not dead yet..

Products that were marketed prior to Feb. 15, 2007 are considered grandfathered and as such are exempt from FDA regulation. Products that were marketed between Feb. 16, 2007 and Aug. 8, 2016 will also be able to remain on the market, but manufacturers will have to submit these products for approval by FDA. While that process is taking place, manufacturers will continue to be able sell these products. While the companies will have to stop handing out free cigars by Aug. 8, they have effectively 25 months from today before they need to update all packaging to include text-based warning labels.

After Aug. 8, manufacturers will need to apply for FDA approval before bringing any new products to market.

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

I read somewhere that it's estimated to cost something like 60k to get approval. If it's anywhere near that the boutiques are doomed.

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

if you have a link please provide it

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

I can't find the 60k quote.

Here is an article from last year that mentions a 400k figure.

http://www.stogieguys.com/2015/07/07...egulation.html

Even if the cost is somehow manageable, the delay in dealing with the backlog will be too much. I highly doubt the smaller players are going to be able to sit on everything that goes in a cigar for two years while they wait for approval.

Maybe we'll just be buying everything like we buy Cubans. I think this going to be really bad for the b&m's.

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

"To date, FDA has neither announced the cost of the application, nor how it planned on responding to the flood of new applications in a timely manner."

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

So I'm shy on details - but - how over-arching is this legislation? Can one have "seasonal releases", or differing vitolas of a particular cigar? Are all the varieties within a make affected? Does each and every new blend, size or label require new approvals?

The boutiques will likely be hurt the most, as in my industry, FDA approval is a major cost factor in new product development.

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

In my experience in working with certifications, which are electrical and NOT FDA, there is generally very little cost from a government fee side but an enormous cost in submitting answers to questions or in supplying test data or compliance information. Typically the cost is in labor hours, consultants that are knowledgeable in the ways of the certifying agency, and in perhaps testing your product at a certified lab or some such.

For example, FCC compliance means you have to test your product at a lab and supply an official test report demonstrating compliance. This could be your lab or one you contract with. This cost then is your cost to comply.

So when the FDA states the cost to comply is $XXX it's generally not the real cost.

Does this match what the articles are stating or claiming?

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

I have a feeling this will dramatically slow the amount of new products we see hitting the market in the US.

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

http://www.fda.gov/TobaccoProducts/L.../ucm388395.htm

I missed the part where the sky is falling :sh
New products will require testing as stated above.

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

So this means that there will be no free cigars handed out at events like "The Big Smoke?"

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

I wouldn't go so far as to say the sky is falling as this is an enthusiast hobby we are talking about, however, I do think that if everything goes forward as planned there will be a dramatic change in the landscape.

We will have less choice, we will pay more, blends will take exponentially longer to get to market (been to the dmv or va lately?) and many of the current blends we like may disappear if they have arrived on the scene since 2007 and the brand owner decides they have neither the time nor the money to go through the approval process. All this has been said before but at least before there was an hope for exemption at least in the minds of peasants like myself.

One of the things I like most about this hobby is the camaraderie that exists around trying new things. Sitting around with a few friends, arguing about the merits of this or that...Even when the something new sucks, it's still fun to sit around and ***** and moan about how bad it is. Not to mention when you stumble across something special. I covet that two or three hours where care/troubles/pressures/stresses just fade away.

Not trying to be melodramatic, it's just a bit sad to me that it may change drastically as it's something I really enjoy.

If I were smart enough to articulate a unified theory of herfing one of the corollaries would have something do with any increase in intervention by the FDA being inversely proportional to the overall rating of the actual or potential herf on the Icehog scale.

Or this all a General/Altadis plot to take over the world. Clever bastards.

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

I am gloom and doom on this issue.

On what basis would the FDA "approve" any cigar since they believe all cigars are harmful?

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

Well, now is the time for CRA to earn the money we've been giving them. And, to have those members of Congress do more than pay lip service to their support of cigar rights. But, don't hold your breath.......

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

From the ca article.


"could cost"

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

I think someone summed it up well above that you won't find General Cigar or Altadis complaining at all as this type of compliance legistlation definitely favors large businesses. The small boutique shops will not be able to comply however I predicts lot of unforeseen future issues with illegal mail order products that are non-compliant and another difficult task to stop that as evident by the ISOM availability.

Be interesting to say the least but hopefully Congress will pass legistlation reigning I the FDA.

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

Pretty sure the ISOM will be grandfathered in since Perdomo started making those back around 2004 or so.

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

:lr:lr:lr:lr Sorry Hugh, but that's hilarious! If you really think that the money you have given them went anywhere but into their own pockets for "administrative costs" then I have a small island to sell you. :bh

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

It's not looking good...

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

Hahahahaha I had no idea Perdomo made a cigar called the ISOM. Well, how clever of them. It's definitely to be Grandfathered in and indeed is a sign of what cigars to expect! Ok, I jest, but hey, have to have a little levity.

Well played on the Perdomo ISOM, well played.

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

There is another reason I am gloom and doom.

The smaller producers in several countries will have to decide very quickly whether to plant for the next season.

That has suddenly become a very risky proposition, and that means a high cost of capital will add to business woes.

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

Unfortunately it looks like if the embargo ever does end, HSA will have to also go through the approval process since their products were not marketed in the US before 2007. They may be able to argue their products were available before the embargo but I don't think that will work.

I think events like Big Smoke may still be able to provide cigars by saying the price of admission is paying for the cigars. I just don't know what is going to happen to the boutique brands who really do make the best NC's on the market today.

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

A lot of B&M's are going to be closing their doors soon if this sticks. that sucks

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

The sky isn't falling. This has to pass congress and be signed by the president. This is currently an amendment on the 2017 Ag Appropriation Bill which is in it's very beginning stages. Most of the time one of two things happens: 1) the Ag Bill (Farm Bill) doesn't pass and they pass a continuing resolution to use last years bill. This happened for ten years in the 90s and early 2000s. 2) Amendments like this always get revised significantly before their voted on.

It seems like the February 2007 date is arbitrary. It's not. E-cigs didn't exist before this date, therefore this is all about e-cigs and some genius wanted to add cigars. The cigars portion will get taken out before it gets to the floor for a vote.

Finally, there is a very important clause in all of this that says premium cigars may be exempt.

This won't change anything other than create panic. This is an amendment on a bill proposed by two congressmen and has passed a sub-committee (which they all do). That's all it is at this point. Even if the bill passes the house with this amendment, then they begin negotiating a final Farm Bill with the Senate. The cigar portion won't get very far.

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

You didn't miss much, it was not one of Nick's better cigars.

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/attach...1&d=1462483126

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

Unfortunately, it does not have to pass congress. The FDA was given this power by the Tobacco Control Act. This has been approved by the White House. There could be a Congressional review and they could pass a resolution stating the FDA has gone outside the intent Congress originally granted them via the Tobacco Control Act. But even if that happened, the White House will most certainly veto it which means Congress would have to get 2/3rds vote in both the Senate and the House to override the veto.

However, the proposed FY 2017 Appropriations bill does exempt premium cigars and/or changes the date from Feb 2007 to Aug 2016 which will overturn this decision but that does have to go through the process you mentioned. Even if it does pass it will happen after the Aug 2016 deadline so some of this will go into effect.

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

How bout blunts?

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

just rumors, that amount of $ isn't justifiable and won't hold up in court anyway.

Companies like Altars and General are supporting this FDA ruling, boycot them! Oh btw, Liga = Swisser, they got enough $ to keep liga's in stores

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

So big tobacco will hike their prices to cover the cost and the little man will be crushed, and the FDA blamed, leaving the big guys innocently shrugging.

Yeah, I can see that. I've heard complaints that the boutique brands just cut the pie smaller. Pie restored, big boys happy

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

Apparently one hundred and twenty applications have been filed with the FDA by cigarette manufacturers since 2012 (under a similar "approval" process).

Anyone care to guess how many new cigarettes got approved in the past four years?

Drumroll....

Two.

Those two were only approved after Lorilland hired some high price attorneys and successfully sued the FDA. The FDA had to approve _something_ to demonstrate to the court that the approval process wasn't a total sham.

Of course it is a sham--buy hey this is DC we are talking about here. :2

The OP on this thread has it correct.

This is the law of the land unless Congress and the President change it (or Congress overrides a Presidential veto). Most cigar growers, blenders, manufacturers and distributors will have found other day jobs long before that happens.

Most cigar shops will close.

I just pulled out my old Perelman's Pocket Cyclopedia of Cigars, NC 2006 version to see what the grandfathering smokes would be.

More than 95% of the smokes in the book no longer exist.

So what is left?
Fuentes (some of them including Opus X and Anejos and Hemingways)
Padrons (most of those)
La Flor Dominicana 2000, Ligero, Double Ligero
Litto Gomez
Oliva O (none of the others)
Davidoffs-NC
CAO Brazilia, Criollo, Gold, Italia, MX2 (that's all)
Camacho Corojo (none of the others)
Don Pepin Garcia Blacks (do they make those still?--none of the others)
Rocky Patel Sun Grown (and Edge and 1990 and 1992 vintage if they still make them)
plus a bunch of Altadis (boo!-except Partagas black I like)

FYI.

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

Big Tobacco (read: Altadis & STG/General) have supported this FDA move. They can afford the costs of the testing and see most of their competition wiped away.

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

Shocker. It exterminates all their competition. :sl

Re: Goodbye Tatuaje, Liga, Romacraft, crowned heads, warped...
 

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...andmade-cigars

everybody should sign this