Tom Brady
 

:lr

EOM

Re: Tom Brady
 

I think a couple of equipment guys will be looking for new jobs "**** Tom" :r

Re: Tom Brady
 

Maybe they can sell some of the valuable merch they received :lr

Re: Tom Brady
 

Those texts certainly are deflating.

Re: Tom Brady
 

bahzinga!

Re: Tom Brady
 

Still one of the best of all time, 4 rings!

Re: Tom Brady
 

I admittedly have not read the texts, just heard them read on sports radio, but is there a chance they were having locker room talk? Not really uncommon to say those things, not actually thinking it to be true. Things like "f him, he'll be throwing rugby balls if he doesn't hook me up with shoes" sounds like could be banter to me.

If not, those guys won't be at work tomorrow.

So is cheating by illegally having your balls under inflated, just like cheating by taking stuff that deflates your balls?

Re: Tom Brady
 

It doesn't look good..

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/...deflated-balls

I do like this one...

McNally: Tom sucks...im going make that next ball a f----- balloon

:lr

Re: Tom Brady
 

Reading those few texts, seems like banter, not malicious.

Re: Tom Brady
 

I think it just depends your point of view, I think the damning part is the number of texts and calls between him and Brady right after it all went public, you can say that's natural maybe Brady was asking him what the hell happened and if he knew anything, then again if that was the case you'd think Brady would just turn over the phone / texts. Either way my team still sucks and this isn't going to change that.

Now if you want to talk, 'tuck rule'.

Go Raiders! :lr

Re: Tom Brady
 

No, I 100% believe that Brady ask for the balls to be illegally deflated and the EM did that. I just think the EM saying "F Tom" and "Tom Sucks" was banter, not malicious, but locker room talk, banter stuff.

Re: Tom Brady
 

Oh I took those for two guys saying "**** him.." like anyone does to their boss or whatever, talking ****, one step above banter, but the texts about getting the gear and stuff are kind.. that

SCORE CAPPSSSS!!!!

Re: Tom Brady
 

I just read the findings from the NFL. The report used the words "probably" and "generally". Evil times indeed when someone can be convicted, in a sense, based on what sounds like...nothing. It's disappointing that rules and procedures are applied in ways unique to the Patriots.

I've met Mr. Kraft. He is one of the most decent, honest, generous people walking the face of the Earth. He does more for charity than anyone knows. He funds medical research labs, among many other things. He shovels ridiculous amounts of money into it. There are a million other things he does that no one sees. You can believe every word he says.

Patriots CEO Robert Kraft released a statement on Wednesday. You can read it in its entirety below:

When I addressed the media at the Super Bowl on January 26 -- over 14 weeks ago -- I stated that I unconditionally believed that the New England Patriots had done nothing inappropriate in this process or in violation of the NFL rules and that I was disappointed in the way the league handled the initial investigation. That sentiment has not changed.

I was convinced that Ted Wells' investigation would find the same factual evidence supported by both scientific formula and independent research as we did and would ultimately exonerate the Patriots. Based on the explanations I have heard and the studies that have been done, I don't know how the science of atmospheric conditions can be refuted or how conclusions to the contrary can be drawn without some definitive evidence.

What is not highlighted in the text of the report is that three of the Colts' four footballs measured by at least one official were under the required psi level. As far as we are aware, there is no comparable data available from any other game because, in the history of the NFL, psi levels of footballs have never been measured at halftime, in any climate. If they had been, based on what we now know, it is safe to assume that every cold-weather game was played with under inflated footballs. As compelling a case as the Wells Report may try to make, I am going to rely on the factual evidence of numerous scientists and engineers rather than inferences from circumstantial evidence. Throughout the process of this nearly four-month investigation, we have cooperated and patiently awaited its outcome. To say we are disappointed in its findings, which do not include any incontrovertible or hard evidence of deliberate deflation of footballs at the AFC Championship Game, would be a gross understatement. In addition, given our level of cooperation throughout the process, I was offended by the comments made in the Wells Report in reference to not making an individual available for a follow-up interview. What the report fails to mention is that he had already been interviewed four times and we felt the fifth request for access was excessive for a part-time game day employee who has a full-time job with another employer.

While I respect the independent process of the investigation, the time, effort and resources expended to reach this conclusion are incomprehensible to me. Knowing that there is no real recourse available, fighting the league and extending this debate would prove to be futile. We understand and greatly respect the responsibility of being one of 32 in this league and, on that basis, we will accept the findings of the report and take the appropriate actions based on those findings as well as any discipline levied by the league

Re: Tom Brady
 

Didn't I hear this before? No, wait . . . that was A-Rod's lawyer. Never mind.

Re: Tom Brady
 

There's an article out there where they point out that those are the terms the NFL uses when they are sure there were infractions, for whatever reason, legal maybe, that's just how they do it.

Re: Tom Brady
 

How convenient that they've re-codified ambiguity into certainty; if they think it's true, then it must be, science to the contrary. They don't even have to utter the damning words. Further, if they have to parse words to avoid legal issues, then I contend that they know they're being unjust. That's as slimy as it gets.

Re: Tom Brady
 

This report is going to be viewed based on the color of your laundry. If you wear Patriot gear, you're going to have a huge problem with it. For fans of the 31 other teams, this is more proof that the organization is comprised serial cheaters and all Super Bowl victories should come with an asterisk attached.


As a Bills fan in Pats land, it's fun to watch the talking heads of Boston sports trip all over themselves rump swabbing Belichik and Brady.

Re: Tom Brady
 

Let's see if the NFL will pressure test ALL footballs in the future; before, during and after the games. I suspect the other owners wouldn't like it so I don't think we'll be seeing any of that.

Re: Tom Brady
 

Darren,
You sound like the defenders of Lance Armstrong or Barry Bonds. It's obvious they deflated the balls at the direction on Brady. Doesn't matter if Kraft knew, doesn't matter if Bielchik knew.... I really couldn't care less that they did it, didn't care about the filming, didn't care about Barry Bonds or Lance either. But trying to say any of them didn't cheat due to wording in a report or the charity of their sponsors/owners is a bit amusing.

Seems easiest stance of Pats fans here is, "Great, don't care. I'm happy we won another Super Bowl." Defending this or acting like it isn't or may not be true is just amusing for those who have no horse in the race.

Re: Tom Brady
 

They aren't going to need to work. They're about to become quite rich. Question is who's going to write the paycheck? TB/BB? Or TMZ/ESPN?

Re: Tom Brady
 

As a Pagan I know a Witch hunt when I see one.

Re: Tom Brady
 

Denial and anger are the first two stages of grief. Some never get beyond those.

Re: Tom Brady
 

They have already changed how the balls are handled (phrasing), who has access and when they check them, so going forward it's going to be a non-issue.

Just a man and his Buffalo .. Bills.

Re: Tom Brady
 

Ya know, I don't really watch football, much but injustice bothers me, a lot. I would hate to be subject to punishment of any kind based on something as flimsy as "probably" or "generally". We're taking about possibly many thousands of dollars in fines. If you're going to reach into someone's pocket, it is monstrously unjust to do it without actual proof, otherwise it's just robbery. And to hide behind quasi-legal ambiguity is beyond cowardly. The Pats were found guilty because the 31 other owners wanted it that way, period. If you can't beat them on the field, then beat them in the Boardroom.

This anger is just an adjunct to all kinds of other, non-related anger. :tf

Re: Tom Brady
 

Adam, I don't think we're doing "phrasing" anymore.

Re: Tom Brady
 

I don't feel any punishment should happen to Tom Brady. If NFL wants to fine the Pats or take a draft pick; that's fine. In the end the NFL knows this was just low lying fruit for them to save face with all the bad publicity they've had in recent years.

Take down your crown jewels to pretend there's integrity to the league... What a joke.

Re: Tom Brady
 

Again, I can't help but wonder what you said about A-Rod. :r

Re: Tom Brady
 

I thought Aroid got over-punished and spectacalized.

Re: Tom Brady
 

He's a purse slapping Yankee. Isn't that enough? But he wouldn't make a patch in Jeter's @ss. Jeter's a class act, A-Rod, not so much. :D

Seeing as this whole thing was precipitated through a sting by Indianapolis, they better check the fans at Gillette for batteries when Indy comes to town.

Re: Tom Brady
 

Yup.
I have a friend who's a Seahawks fan who was droning on and on about "Belicheat" in the week leading up to the Super Bowl. I put this on his Facebook page:
"Pete Carroll left USC ahead of a NCAA investigation that would ultimately strip USC of a national championship amid a scandal that was so systemic that the Sporting News wrote '...justice won't truly be served until the only coaching Carroll ever does entails holding an Xbox controller.' Since moving on to Seattle, Carroll's Seahawks have led the NFL in number of players being suspended for PED violations. In August 2014, Carroll and the Seahawks were fined over $300K for violating the league's CBA and will also lose two mini-camps in 2015.
Shouldn't Pete Carroll be re-named 'Cheat Carroll'? Glass houses, dude, glass houses."

He never responded or mentioned "Belicheat" again.

So, now that the Patriots investigation is done I assume the league will be going after Green Bay and Aaron Rodgers. To refresh, Rodgers bragged in an interview that he sneaks over-inflated balls (phrasing) into games.

Re: Tom Brady
 

Re: Tom Brady
 

Three points here to address.

First, I don't like A-Rod, and won't defend him, beyond saying that giving him 3X the punishment meted out to those who DID fail a PED test when he DID NOT seemed extreme, especially when this punishment was largely based upon the testimony of a confessed criminal who offered his testimony to ameliorate his own punishment by throwing A-Rod under the bus. But to accuse the NFL of going after Brady because he is a Patriot while simultaneously applauding MLB for going after A-Rod because he is a Yankee is specious nonsense, especially in light of the fact that A-Rod's only truly documented violation of PED use occurred when he was a Ranger, not a Yankee.

Second, no one in their right mind would put A-Rod's reputation on the same plane as Jeter's. Such would be nearly as foolish as was the 2006 assertions by Red Sox fans that Papelbom was a better closer than Rivera. :r

Lastly, be it offered jokingly or not, the threat of a violent unsportsmanlike reaction by Pats fans the next time the Colts visit Gillette is disturbing. However, given a history of such actions in Boston venues in the past, such a warning is not surprising in the least. Admittedly, Boston fans are not alone in this, but they certainly have an established track record of bad behavior.

Re: Tom Brady
 

Tom cheated. period. That others have cheated as well is irrelevant as to whether or not he cheated. He should have his ring taken, fined, and forced to sit out a year without pay.

If I were a Colt player/owner/stakeholder I would sue Brady and the Patriots for fraud.

As to whether he should be punished based upon the assertion that he "probably" did this ....... well ..... that is the legal standard. Probable means it is more likely than not. It is the same standard when a person is sued in civil court. OJ Simpson was acquitted criminally because the standard was "beyond a reasonable doubt" but was found guilty civilly because the standard was "preponderance of the evidence" (or "more likely than not").

Re: Tom Brady
 

Why is everyone looking at this with kid gloves on?

Cheating, is cheating, but "probably" doesn't cut it. If it could be proven, then Brady should be banned from football, forever, Period! If it cannot be proven, Circumstantial, is all B.S. - Let it go!!!

Re: Tom Brady
 

I hate to say it, but "probably" is the only thing that cuts it. This is not a "beyond a reasonable doubt" case. It is a "preponderance of the evidence" case.

"In legal terms, a preponderance of evidence means that a party has shown that its version of facts, causes, damages, or fault is more likely than not the correct version, as in personal injury and breach of contract suits. This standard is the easiest to meet and applies to all civil cases unless otherwise provided by law.

The concept of “preponderance of the evidence” can be visualized as a scale representing the burden of proof, with the totality of evidence presented by each side resting on the respective trays on either side of the scale. If the scale tips ever so slightly to one side or the other, the weightier side will prevail. If the scale does not tip toward the side of the party bearing the burden of proof, that party cannot prevail." http://courts.uslegal.com/burden-of-...-the-evidence/

Circumstantial evidence is still evidence, and when it is enough to tip the scales in one direction or another, then it prevails.

Aaron Hernandez was convicted of murder based upon "circumstantial evidence."

EDIT: Aaron was a patriot too, wasn't he??

Re: Tom Brady
 

Wow, people REALLY get their feelings hurt over silly games played by multi-millionaires, don't they?
I mean lawsuits? Really?!? For violating just one of the many, many rules in the rule book? If an offensive lineman gets away with a couple of holds in a game (a game his team would have won anyway) do you guys call for lifetime bans for him? Do you think the losing team should sue? Do you demand he sit out a year without pay? I suppose we should ban linemen from the game, period, seeing that their unofficial motto is "If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'."

Perspective, folks...sometimes you lose it when you're on a high horse.

Re: Tom Brady
 

There is a difference between committing a hold during the heat of battle and the premeditation involved with deflating balls to give your entire team a game long advantage in a sudden death playoff with millions of dollars on the line. Also, there are punishments set forth in the rules for a hold, pass interference, and other on-field infractions (loss of yards, downs, etc... ). I have not found a punishment set forth in the rules for willfully manipulating equipment to give your team an unfair advantage.

Re: Tom Brady
 

I stand corrected, there is a penalty set forth for altering footballs. "including, but not limited to, a fine of $25,000.” The "not limited to" portion of the penalty leave it open for harsher penalties. The minimum is a $25,000 fine, and it can get worse.

Re: Tom Brady
 

I say chop his ****ing head off. Would that satisfy all the non-Patriot fans? :)

Re: Tom Brady
 

That's a touch harsh. Just bunk him with Hernandez for a time. :D

Re: Tom Brady
 

Not if he still has his deflated balls to play with? :gary

Re: Tom Brady
 

I say leave the head alone. Just cut balls. Poor Giselle.:r

Re: Tom Brady
 

Re: Tom Brady
 

Why can't we all just get along?
WHAT ABOUT THE STARVING BABY SELAS!?!?!

Re: Tom Brady
 

No worries. Tom and Giselle can make capes of their pelts.

Re: Tom Brady
 

Is baby Selas any relation to Monica Seles?

Re: Tom Brady
 

New York Daily News (they are a real paper right? :r ) is saying that Brady is going to be suspended and it will be announced next week. I'd take that with a big ol' grain of salt though, not like a NY paper would stir the pot on Brady...right? :lr

Re: Tom Brady
 

Papelbon isn't even as good a human being as Mo, few are; another class act. I wasn't threatening anything; I was just pointing out what is already well known: Boston fans are insane and now they're pissed-off. Up here, sports are like war.

Re: Tom Brady
 

I think aroid blew it when he was screaming how innocent he was and how he was going to sue "the **** out of" MLB... that's would seem to have made things a wee bit worse for him.

Re: Tom Brady
 

Darren, my friend, I did not in any way think you were uttering threats, and understood you referred to that certain nutbag segment of fans who can embarrass any franchise, from the pros down to T-ball. And I appreciate your honesty and candor as expressed here.

Well it's not quite as bad a problem here in the NYC area, despite the fact that we have more nuts and drunks than do most places. Perhaps it is because the 9 pro teams in the 4 major sports so split loyalties as to water it down somewhat, or perhaps it is because we are so jaundiced we just don't give a $#!+.