Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

Yesterday, while taking a stroll with the missis she asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?' To which I respond, 'Ha! Yeah, right! That's the craziest thing I've ever heard of. How could I open a cigar shop?'

And then I got to thinking, you know, what the hell. Maybe I should open a cigar shop. I don't know. It sounds like a dream come true. Other guys have cigar shops. Why not me?

What have I got working against me? Well, I've got no money, I've got no idea how to start or operate a business, I'm forty-five years old, and there's a virtual war on tobacco in this country. Alright.

What have I got working for me? A genuine passion for cigars, a desire to stop working so hard to make somebody else rich, and faith in the American Dream. And that's it. Is that enough to get a successful B&M off the ground?

What do you think? Am I a fool to even think it? Could it be done in nanny state New York? Should I give up before I begin and just keep bartending into my 50s? My 60s?

All opinions and advice welcome. Thank you.

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

PMS

While researching small business start up info, my wife and I came across some very strong recommendations for SCORE. We haven't requested a member or gone to any meetings/classes yet, but we will. Check them out. Looks like an incredible organization.

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

Most importantly, it gets you access to the IPCPR show each year! =)

Running a successful b&m here in Canada is extremely difficult. Profit per stick is around $1-$1.50ea. That's after your customer shells out $15 on the average stick. It's a tough sell here with zero tolerance for indoor smoking...but people do run successful cigar shops.

Hopefully, the FDA will rethink the definition of a premium cigar. Otherwise, the US market will really start to become like it is in Canada.

If you go for it, make it a unique customer experience.

All the best!

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

Note to the Asylum: There is a not-too-distant thread called Starting a brick and mortar. It shoots off on a couple tangents, but I have read the good info there. Mods, if you feel that this thread is redundant, please delete and accept my apologies.

Thanks, Dave. That's super helpful. I appreciate it.


Thank you, Greg. Yikes. That's a hash mark in the 'terrible idea' column. How in the world does anyone compete with online sales when there's not even the draw of smoking in the shops? And on the FDA, you're right of course. However that pans out might make all the difference. And as for making for a unique customer experience, considering the folks who live in my neighborhood, I think a combination cigar shop / barber shop / tattoo parlor would be a hit. But surely there are at least a million laws in NYC against smoking inside tattoo parlors.

My background, however, is in bartending. Perhaps a cigar bar (serves booze) is a better idea than a cigar shop (no booze). Not as unique as haircuts and tattoos, but it's something to consider. On the other hand, serving alcohol probably presents a whole new set of problems. Maybe best to keep it simple and stick with one product--cigars. On the other OTHER hand, all things being equal, I'd prefer to smoke where I can also have a drink if I have the choice.

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

I've always thought a cigar shop with a kick ass barrister would do it. You need one of those guys who can put little pictures on the foam and the missus can have a coffee while you check out the smokes. Some nice overstuffed chairs, a few good books on a shelf, oh - and customer lockers to hide their ill-gotten gains.

No issue will alcohol laws if you serve up a decent java. In Brooklyn? Killer idea.

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

All of this depends upon the local and state laws in your area. For example, in Oregon it would be difficult to open a new Cigar Store and near impossible to open a new Cigar Lounge.

Having said that, I think the following would be good:

- A good web presence -- you will probably not be able to compete against CI, Famous, etc., but it will give you additional business and lack of a web presence is aways a big negative
- A good lounge, with as much of a bar as you can have along with some TVs, and as Neil said, a Barista would be good too.
- Knowledgeable staff
- Decent selection of cigars (you don't have to carry everything, just a good variety)
- Once you get established, host some events -- leverage the manufacturers and distributors to help you
- Marketing. We have a local lounge that does OK, but they could do better if they advertised even a teeny bit. Not talking about color glossy ads, but a little something in the local paper.

Be prepared to work hard (long hours) for awhile.

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

We don't need any lawyers, but a barista to make some nice coffee drinks would be fantastic! :)

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

The barista idea is a great one. I like that a lot. The overstuffed chairs, the books, maybe a few periodicals, maybe big band music playing quietly in the background. Perhaps a TV or projector for sports and/or movies. Knowledgeable staff would be a must, and I'm not afraid of hard work or long hours, especially if it's my own place.

I just gotta figure out if I can do it with no money and no experience. I know a fair amount about cigars, but I don't know the first thing about the cigar business.

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

Check out this site http://www.tobaccoleafmd.com they're a shop in Maryland that for some reason I get emails from. They seem to be doing well and have fairly good advertisement as far as social media. I've never been there but it seems nice. :2

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

Thanks, Michael. Looks like a decent shop. I would want to do without the hookahs though. Funny, on the website it says they're hiring. "How would you like to join our Team? Full Time and Part Time Opportunities Available."

You know, I just did a close read of Starting a brick and mortar. There's quite a bit of valuable info on there. Maybe I shouldn't have started this new thread. Perhaps I just got a little excited when my wife suggested I open a cigar bar--her actual words were cigar "bar" not cigar "shop". I guess I was thinking it'd be good to get out from behind the bar, so I began thinking of leaving liquor out of the equation. But I digress. I've spent a good part of a day off reading various threads on the topic and the FDA and I'm feeling pretty overwhelmed. Starting a tobacco-orientated business now seems the riskiest startup of all, especially in a state that is no friend to tobacco like New York.

Perhaps I should tell my wife that instead of me opening a cigar shop/bar whatever in Brooklyn, let's move to Hanover, Maryland. The Tobacco Leaf at Arundel Mills Mall is hiring. Full Time and Part Time Opportunities Available.

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

Haha glad I could help. Just don't tell your wife it was my idea

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

It's quite the undertaking but I wish you the best at it...

As others have stated, It really all comes down to what your local gov will allow, once you know that it is really all about knowing your clientele and and targeting your business toward them...

I would suggest, If it were my money, opening up a less specific business that gars can become a part of, and then as your customer base grows you can grow the cigar part of it as well...

Seeing as you already have bar experience, and if the law will allow it, perhaps open up a regular lounge bar with a little closet humidor first, then if you are seeing enough return on your investment in your cigar sales you can move the humidor into a room as your customers interests, and your wallet, grows...

By not starting specifically with cigars in mind, in the event of failure of adequate cigar sales, you can then fall back on your primary product (alcohol/coffee) if interest is not enough to keep the doors open... Also by diversifying your products you might guard against seasonal changes in business... i.e. no rough winters when no one is buying cigars because the weather isn't good enough to smoke them...

Just random food for thought, Hope it works out for you...

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

There's a local shop near Toronto that has nailed the cigar/barbershop experience. They're young guys running the shop and have a real good handle on the social media aspect.
http://www.villagecigarcompany.com/

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

I don't know if it's a trick of the funhouse lens, or if it's really as huge as it looks, but that's a good-looking shop. The walls are a bit spare, but I like those wood floors. Nice that they put up pics of the build. The only drawback--and this for me is pretty massive--reading their "about" page, sounds like they don't smoke inside the shop. They've got a smoking porch out back. Still, congratulations to four young guys livin' the dream in Burlington Ontario. Thanks for the link.

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

I think this is the key! If you look at most B&M/Lounges here in NYC they offer some other service as well.

A straight up B&M/Lounge will have to have a location where there are a lot of smokers/traffic whether it be commercial/residential and or easy access for a smoker passing thru to stop by on the way home or something like that.

my :2 FWIW

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

Yea, I'm not a huge fan of the wide angle lens photos either. The shop is much better looking in person. I think these photos are dated. Just last weekend, they opened a new expansion into a neighbouring store where they now have 4 barber chairs. They only do old school razor shaving and traditional barbering. The walls are covered in old cigar boxes. They have a dart board and old hockey arena seating in the waiting area.

You are correct. No smoking in the shop. Indoor smoking is completely against the law in Ontario (most of canada for that matter). Just another reason why it's hard to run a b&m here. I guess the government is afraid of hurting the feelings of other cigar smokers who walk into the shops and are exposed to second hand smoke. lol

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

It is encouraging to hear that your local B&M is thriving despite Ontario's indoor smoking ban. The United States is headed in that direction. Probably not a question of 'if,' but rather a question of 'when.' :td

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

I've seen beautiful cigar bars in nice areas that never get any foot traffic and over priced places in low traffic spots do well. It's really on how you run the place and who you hire to work for you. If you go though with starting your own place, make people feel welcome. I'm sure your bartending experience will server you well in that regard. And, pay attention to the customers. Place I like to visit has such loud music/singer you can't even converse with the people at your table. It has discouraged me from going back as often as I would otherwise. The place tends to die down once the live band/singer get going. If it was just the guitar player I would be fine, in fact it would be perfect.

Anyway, as a cigar smoker you already know which areas are in need of a lounge, geographically speaking. I'm sure you'll do well, just do your homework on the current and pending legislation in your state/locality.

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

Your two cons are deal breakers in my view, no money and no idea how. Those are dangerous check marks
on the pro and con idea chart. Advice can help you out of the second one, but only the money fairy can help you
with the big one. Maybe somebody will kickstarter you. If the idea strikes you as a good one in the end, you just
need to keep thinking on it while you save, and re-evaluate once your money pile is big enough. Debt was
something our PARENTS could afford to take on.....much less so today. Getting out of debt seems harder today
somehow.

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

Being a small business owner, my suggestion is to try and get a job in a B&M for a while (if you have the time). It helps you get an idea of what it is actually like. What might be problems, what are realistic expectations, what aren't, etc.

A business plan and all is great and a very useful tool, but as Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. Try to plan on getting punched in the mouth at some point in the process.

Keep us up to date on what you decide, I hope you do well!!

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

I'd rather set my head on fire. But that's just me.
I hope it works out great for you, whatever way you decide to go. :tu

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

Just my 2 cents... if its your dream and your passion... go for it.. don't let anybody tell you different.

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

its not easy...a lot of red tape if you want to smoke indoors...depending on your state. If you want liquor in there as well, then its a **** storm. States arent really excited to hear of a cigar bar coming up...at least thats how it is here on the east coast.

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

Some quick hits about B&M

1) what does the state law say about smoking establishments? What are the requirements to be able to have a retail shop and lounge?

IE, in Illinois, any new cigar shop needs to be in a stand alone building, especially if you are offering a smoking lounge.

2) what licenses are needed? BYO license? Tobacco? hookah?

3) other avenues of income...vapor? gentleman's products? lockers? memberships?

4) community outreach: sell your cigars or at least sell pro-shops inventory; any bar that allows patio smoking will might want to have a humidor; high end steak houses might have a humidor; any wine/ale/beer/scotch/whiskey fest will want a vendor selling cigars there; Harley-Davidson events; sell at golf outings for any non-profits....don't just donate a gift...go out and sell and donate % of proceeds.

5) reach out to vendors and have events with vendors

6) multiple sources of cigar for your stock...I just don't rely on direct vendor relationships.

7) don't spend much on print advertisement; word of mouth is where its at; location is where its at..especially lots of foot traffic

8) make sure you have parking!!!!

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

Right now, I'm trying to figure out exactly what the current laws in NYC are. I've found this:

Clean Indoor Air Act (CIAA)
Enacted in 1989 and last amended in 2013, the Clean Indoor Air Act (CIAA) prohibits smoking of tobacco (herbal cigarettes are exempted) in nearly all public and work places. Exemptions are allowed for cigar bars in existence prior to December 31, 2002 and for organizations that do not have employees.

I haven't yet found any info covering cigar shops which are not bars, but early indicators point to no smoking in new cigar shops. If that's true, my little project is probably dead in the water. I mean, I guess some folks manage to run shops in which smoking is prohibited, but I just don't see how I could compete with the heavy hitters online if I couldn't offer a comfortable smoking lounge. Unless, I was mainly a newsstand or something else. A lot of newsstands around here sell a few cigars. But, thing is, I don't want to run a newsstand.

I surely wouldn't be able to offer competitive pricing. In the state of New York, tax on cigars is 75% of wholesale value. I don't know wholesale cigar prices, and I'm a bartender not a mathematician, but I've heard it said this means a $20.00 cigar in NY retails for $27.50. If I expect a guy to pay my prices rather than shop online, I'd better be able to offer him something he can't get from the big-box stores. And if he can't smoke in my shop, well...

I will of course report back here if I discover that I'm wrong about new shops being unable to permit smoking.

You know, should I decide to pursue this thing much further, this is a great idea. Hell, if I don't pursue this thing much further this is a great idea. :tu

Thank you, everyone, for all your thoughtful responses.

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

The no money part, means probably not a good idea. Especially starting out, you can fail rather quickly in the first year or two.

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

Someone told me I should start out selling cigars on consignment. Doubt there is a huge profit margin there, but it is intriguing in a low overhead and low risk sort of way.

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

IF I was opening a cigar shop, it would be a men's shop. I'd sell cigars and pipe tobacco, pipes, lighters, etc. Then, I'd have a full line of shaving supplies: Razors, replacement blades, soaps, aftershave, etc. An electric razor would be banned and requests for them would result in the requestant being assaulted and battered by a short, fat man with a vowel at the end of his last name.

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

I agree with flaming head. I also agree with the others that you have to be more than a cigar shop. The Net can supply cigars cheaper than you can so you have to have some much more that can't be ordered via a debit card.

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

I think the point is, you probably want to have additional things to attract people and sell to them. It might be worth pointing out that JR's huge stores in N Carolina have a lot more floor space devoted to clothes, perfume, pots and pans than they do to cigars.

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

Follow your dream and go for it! One of my favorite places here on Siesta Key is Leilu's, a coffee shop that has a beer & wine license. They allow smoking outside, but not indoors due to food service. Personally, if I had a cigar shop, I'd copy that place, delete the food and have it be cigar friendly. Kick azz coffees, expresso, limited beers and wines. They offer live music twice weekly and prices are reasonable. Best is the customer service is superb. Doesn't hurt that it's a block off the beach and there is always a steady stream of perky eye-candy strutting by! :tu

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

There are three shops right near my house and all of them do fairly well.

First is Spec's, which is really wine/beer/liquor mega store. Their humidor is pretty good sized but mostly carries the "standard" brands (Fuente, Perdomo, RP etc.) However, they're the only shop in the area that stocks Liga Privada, both #9 and T52. They've also got the best prices on the standard stock. There are a few downsides though. First, there's really only two guys who work there who know anything about cigars and the humidor tends to be a bit messy just from the amount of traffic that wandesr in and out. Since it's a chain store there's NEVER any sales on the cigars. Also, since it's really a liquor store there's no lounge or anywhere to enjoy your new purchases at. But, it is convenient being able to grab a smoke or two then walk 50ft over to the bourbons and scotches.

Next is Cigar Depot. It's the smallest of the shops, just a hole in the wall in an older strip mall. The humi isn't anything special and has a kind of cold, surgical room feel to it. Decent selection and the prices aren't too bad. Gary, the owner, is the only one I've ever seen working there and he's a fountain of knowledge when it comes to cigars. The "lounge" is just a couple of easy chairs right by the front door. This place really only sells cigars. There's a small selection of cigs and some tins of pipe tobacco, but cigars are the main focus here.

Lastly, there's Pipe World. This is my favorite shop of the three and I tend to visit here about once a week even though Spec's is less than 2 miles from my front door. Good sized humidor that is packed from floor to ceiling. Awesome selection of sticks and it's constantly rotating. No Liga Privada, but lots of boutique and small batch brands in addition to the standard stock. If there's a new release or new brand coming out, chances are Pipe World will have it in stock shortly after. Also the only shop that hosts events and giveaways. Prices tend to be a bit higher, but the sales here are great. They'll toss whole boxes of smokes into the clearance baskets and mark them 30-40% off, in addition to the 10% a membership gives. There are several employees in addition to the owners and they're all very knowledgeable about the products they sell. The owners are also very open to suggestions on new lines to carry. The lounge isn't great, but it works. Just some easy chairs stuffed into an alcove by the register. Pipe World is also the sort of catch all shop that the others here are suggesting. They sell cigars, knives, cigs, e-cigs, hookahs, nick-knacks like wind chimes and, of course, pipes. Lots and lots of pipes. This place is always busy and the events get pretty crowded.

Anyway, I typed all that not to brag about what I have available to me but to give you three different, and rather distinct, styles of shop you could look into. Granted, none of them serve alcohol except for Pipe World, but they don't sell any alcohol just give out bottles of beer or glasses of whiskey during their events.

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

An option to getting around the no indoor smoking issue...

Picture a storefront that has an apartment on top. These typically exist in older 'downtown streets'...

Here's where it becomes clever and pricey. You purchase both the store and the apartment above it. Usually these sell as a complete unit.

Your cigar shop is opened on the main floor. You create the lounge in the apartment, which you own as "your personal residence". You just so happen to allow your "friends" to go into your personal residence to smoke. BYOB of course. No licenses needed, and separate entrance. Obviously, this option would only be open to a customer who purchases a cigar from your shop and would like to smoke it indoors in comfort.

You would not advertise this additional space to just anyone...it would be discretely known to your regular, loyal customers. I've just shared my dream with you.

Boom!

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

Damn that could be a million dollar idea.

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

I guess I don't get this, though this sentiment has been brought up before on other threads. I picture a Wal-Mart shaving isle with a walk in humidore.

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

Search for the wetshaving thread. Or check out sharpologist.com

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

I have to say, how would that not work?

I mean, I'm sure it would find a way to blowup in my face and I'd lose all I'd worked for, BUT...

How would that not work?

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

^^^ this

Well spoken - you should not jump in eyes closed - business plan is required.

You should do up a year budget and see what costs along with your bottom line to make sure it is feasible - demographics play an important role - are you going to sell online or not? What will be your obstacles eyc. sWOT analysis should be done as well.

At the end of the day - it wil be your final judgement, but having this all completed will give yourself direction on where you want to be and how to get there.

I would strongly suggest the idea of getting into the field before trying it yourself so you can see what the markups and what you can do better than your soon to be competitors.

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

On thing I forgot too. If you decide to do it. Before you make any moves, lawyer up. Get a good business law attorney to advise you and get you set up in a way that will best insulate you personally from the business failing. If you aren't careful to start with and as you operate, you can expose you and your family to tremendous financial liability. Just be smart, the extra cost up front is worth it!

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

Unless you incorporate (at least in canada) that's how you protect yourself- but for what He is wanting to do, it will not be worth incorporating - coastwise.

Get yourself a bank loan / loc and have a good business plan, along with some starting capital.

Besides what bank is going to provide a loc to a new incorporated company without something up front

Anyone who tells you differently or to jump on it without a gameplan and or backup plan is being foolish.

Re: Wife asks, 'Why don't you open a cigar shop?'
 

As well - as much I like cigars and everyone here - I honestly see this as a dying breed of a storefront. All the regulations coming into effect are not going to be getting more lax - only more stringent.