Originally Posted by shilala

Hi Jason,
Sorry about your mess, brother. I feel your pain.
I wish I could draw a picture, it'd save a thousand words, but here I go...

When we create a humidor, we create a sealed environment with a very finite amount of water in there.
You'd probably say "Opening the door adds and subtracts water!!!", and it does. But that water is in the form of water vapor.
That's where a guy like me goes to math, volumes, and the properties of water in the two states, solid and vapor.
When I start massaging all those numbers, I find that opening and closing your door (or lid) only adds or removes a very, very, very, tiny amount of water vapor. I can literally open and close the door hundreds of times before there's an appreciable change in the RH inside the humi.
If those openings and closings happen across the seasons, things balance out. In most places humidity in the home is higher in the summer and lower in the winter, everything considered.

So now we have to look at time. More math. Ugh. :)
If we add up the time we've had the door open all year long, it isn't much. Let's use a ridiculous example. I go to my humidor 3 times a day, leaving the door open for 5 minutes each time because I never know what I want to smoke, and I do that every single day of the year.
If I total that up, it means that the door has been opened a grand total of 4 days time across the entire year.
If I left my humidor open for 4 days straight, I'm probably going to have an issue. With beads, I can fix it overnight. They can handle 4 days of water vapor, no problem. They'll only rise to the RH of the room around it, and I can dry that out in the fridge or freezer.
Fridge or freezer? Hmm. The water will go out of my beads and go into the fridge or freezer. How?
That's simple. The RH in the fridge or freezer is lower than that of the beads, so the water comes out of my beads as water vapor and into the air in the freezer. Once it's in the air in the freezer, it condenses on, get this, THE CONDENSER!!! :D
Oddly enough, our winadors have a condenser, too.

In freezers and fridges, the water drips off and collects in a pan, then goes out a drain.
In our winadors, we plug our drains. Why?
Because in winadors, we need a perfectly sealed, or hermetic environment, so that we can control the humidity. That's why they're called humidors.
In refrigerators and freezers, nobody cares. The drain is a wonderful thing, or water would run on the floor.

So, now we covered everything that goes on, at least to a degree. The things we have discussed, so far as the math and properties of water and how it acts, those things are static. When God's hand created all this, He made it all real simple. There are laws that do not change. We can count on them, and we can use those laws to help us live successful lives, and not be complete knuckleheads. I'm not even talking about The Commandments, I'm talking physical laws.

When I figure this stuff out, and Michael does the same, cause he knows all this crap, we look at what folks say.
Personally, I like to assume everything you said is solid accurate. But if that's the case, I have to assume you missed something.
The water you have puddled in there absolutely had to come from outside the humidor, because it didn't exist inside it until recently.
If the seal is okay, then there's probably a fist sized hole in the side or back of the unit. I can guess this cause you Texans like your big guns.
If there's no big holes, then we have to assume the seal isn't seating, because they fail after a year or two. Sometimes more, sometimes less, but they fail. Or the unit gets racked cause it's not level, and the seal just isn't seating right.

Honestly, there could be a crack or seam anywhere that opened up. But it's big. Real big.
We know that for two reasons. It takes a HUGE volume of outside air to create that much water, especially in the dry winter.
So that unit is leaking 24 hours a day. So much so that it's changing the unit's temperature, making the cooling run all the time, condensing water and dumping it in the bottom.

Sorry, my brother. It happens. To avoid this misery, I use modified compressor driven refrigerators to store my sticks, and a big display humidor in our nice, cool basement.
You can start from scratch, fix that thing if you can, or drive up here and get this winador I built that I'm getting rid of.

Do me a favor and post this, will ya?
Maybe a "This is why my winador leaked" thread or something. That'd help guys a lot, cause I seldom want to type all this. :D
Hope this helps, my friend!!!
God Bless you and yours,
Scott

Originally Posted by 14holestogie (Post 1915617)

They don't give those the away for everybody. :)
It's gotta be earned. :tu

Originally Posted by big_jaygee (Post 1915721)

im sure i could do that...but doesnt sound like it would be as fun as blowing it up....

all kidding aside. if it is going to be that much of a hassle just to get it serviceable as a wineador again, i would rather just use an ice chest. less worry, just toss in some beads and i am good to go.

thanks for all the tips, hints, and ideas

Originally Posted by kydsid (Post 1915783)

I hate to contradict someone I do respect, and I do respect Scott and his help at this site and to the cigar community as a whole. However as the owner of two wineadors in the same environment as the OP fact is nothing may be wrong. Mine sit unopened for months and can collect water. I can see the evidence inside.

Imo it could be Texas coastal weather and the leak is the cooling system exhaust/intake itself.


Only in the last two years has water stopped collecting. The change? I run a home humidifier now to keep home humidity between 40 and 50% year round. Turn it off for vacation and I usually come back to water.

Originally Posted by bobarian (Post 1915709)

Why not just turn it off for a couple of weeks? It is unlikely that you need any cooling this time of year. Set your hygrometer so you can see it without opening the door. Also, if your hygrometer has a high/low feature check the range, if its within a reasonable number you are still good to go. :2

Originally Posted by shilala (Post 1915927)

A small amount is normal.
A giant puddle and mold growing on stuff, as happened with Jason, that's a leak. :tu

Originally Posted by SSDVC (Post 1916786)

I have been following this thread with interest. I have had my wineador for a few years now. Did the cedar drawers and plugged the drain port in the back. Seasoned with distilled water for 2-3 weeks and then filled it with sticks and a few pounds of beads. I keep the unit in a corner of a room in a non air-conditioned house in CT. I have never plugged my unit in and it has maintained RH levels between 62 and 67% and the temp remains steady between 65-70 degrees.

I always thought that plugging the unit in could dry out the sticks and cause RH issues (but not wet or condensation issue like here). Is there a reason that my unit should be plugged in other than temp control (if required) ?

Originally Posted by hazydat620 (Post 1917717)

Even though I don't have a wineador, I'm still learning a lot, great thread guys, thanks!:tu

Originally Posted by shilala (Post 1918179)

She's lookin good, my friend!!! :tu

Originally Posted by shilala

Welp, if you plug her in empty, the RH will just fluctuate up and down wildly, and you'll make some condensate.
My suggestion would be to fill it back up, then leave it be a little bit more.
70 degrees is awesome for storing your cigars. If you want it a bit lower, You want to fire up that machine and keep it at it's highest setting, bringing it down a little bit a week.
It's gonna go crazy each time you bring it down, but it'll stabilize.

Now, here's a thing.
These thermoelectric coolers are only meant to bring down the inside temp 10-15 degrees below ambient.
If it's 85 in the house and it's set at 65, it'll run itself constantly and dump water all over your floor.
10-12 degrees below ambient is more realistic, in my experience.
So keep that in mind and make adjustments to your set-point as necessary come summer.

Originally Posted by kelmac07 (Post 1919977)

Good to hear Jason. So, did you ever find ouy where the leak/condensation was coming from?

Originally Posted by big_jaygee (Post 1919909)

ok i filled the wineador last night and the RH dropped to 31% but it has since been on the rise. it is currently 58% with a temp of 72*

ambient is 34% RH and 75*

lets see what happens with another day.

Originally Posted by shilala (Post 1920010)

Sheeee-it. That's as good as mine beside me here. It's 65* and 60%, which is 5 degrees colder than I like.
Come and fix mine now, will ya? :D