Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

As much as I hate the guy, I find it equally disturbing that he's even being considered for a lifetime ban. I hate A-Rod because he's a cheater and he plays for money that he steals signs from second and sells it to the man up, but a part of me says that PEDs shouldn't be a part of this ban. I don't see the problem in players coming back from injury quicker b/c of PEDs. I don't see the problem with certain PED's as long as they aren't anabolic steroids. Players can test positive and be suspended from MLB play bc they drank too much Red Bull before a game (or before a drug test). The media makes it out that steroids in Baseball are the be all end all, but no one cares about PEDs in football or basketball. What's the difference? I know that baseball is a purist sport, but why not the outrage against football and basketball? And hockey for that matter?

It's nice to see the traditional media come around to my point of view, such as Paul Daugherty, and a few reporters from SI. I just do 't understand the double standard. I know I have *****ed about this subject before, but now it seems I have some media backing behind my views. Anyone else think that PED's aren't the absolute DEVIL in Baseball?

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

That would not be me. After all, if everyone is allowed to cheat, then what's the point of even playing? One of the beautiful things about Baseball is the ability to compare players across the span of time; once you introduce PED's into the equation, you can no longer do that. How does one compare a .300 hitter from 1950 to one using PED's today? You can't, and 153 years (since the founding of the National Association of American Base Ball Players in 1860) of stats and records become meaningless. Hell, if I had my way, they'd bring back the "dead" ball.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

I'm with you 100%, Andy. I have been from day one. Tom feels the same way, too.
Darren, don't think for a second that the players from the 50's weren't using PED's. They used everything they could get their hands on, and it proliferated baseball.
Granted, we may have better stuff today, or at least safer stuff, but guys have used anything they could to get an edge since the beginning of time.

Andy, I know that the Player's Union has negotiated penalties for PED offenses. 1st offense is 50 games, 2nd offense 100, 3rd offense a lifetime ban.
Up till right now, I'd considered this Arod's 2nd offense. Thing is, he acted as a pusher in this whole Biogenesis thing, turning guys on and dragging them to the clinic.
So MLB may be considering his use as one offense, then the "pusher" thing as another. That would be a lifetime ban. If that's the case, he earned it.
I don't know the time frames involved, as in when this Biogenesis stuff started, but if it was after all the PED problems surfaced a number of years ago, I'd agree with his lifetime ban. Only because of his level of involvement and the fact that it was arrogant and incredibly stupid.
MLB doesn't want Arod breaking records. Look at what happened with Bonds. I think that plays a huge part, too.
Sounds to me like he's gone, but he'll lawyer it to death. He can likely hold the suspension off for a couple years, which is his likely lifespan left in baseball anyways.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

I have no issue with a lifetime ban. Does he deserve it? That's up to the lawyers to fight out. I'm a baseball purity guy and I honestly believe that the integrity of the game should come first. As Scott said, players have been trying to gain an advantage since day one...whether it be creatine, taking PEDs, whatever they thought would give then an edge over their opponents. In Arod's case, he brought others into his circle and pimped Biogenesis as the next great advantage in baseball. Years later, it finally caught up to him and he must now face the music. If Pete Rose can receive a lifetime ban for betting on baseball, Arod can receive a lifetime ban for his involvement in the Biogenesis case. On a side note, MLB claims he has attempted to cover it up and deceive investigators...hence the integrity of the game route (can't appeal), versus the PED route(could appeal and play until that appeal is heard).

I still believe that Ryan Braun got over with his 65 game suspension. He's already hurt and probably not going to play anymore this year anyways. Besides, he's back next year to collect the remaining $ 117 million owed on his contract. And it's not like the Brewers were contenders. So, in essence, this was a slap on the wrist.

Now in Arods case, I believe the Yankees will use this (whatever decision is made) to void his god-awful contract (rightfully so...I would too). But if this happens, that just frees up the Yankees to allow them to purchase a big name bat/player for their lineup.

So, in the end...who really wins??? Baseball needs to crack down and make the penalties so severe that you wouldn't even consider using PEDs.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

I agree with the ban for his part with what he has done to 'promote' Biogenesis. I hope he gets something long, if not a lifetime ban. These players need to see that this is serious and cheaters will be punished.

I'm tired of seeing the players like Braun, get away with it.

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This stuff sure makes Pete's ban look silly, doesn't it, Mac?
I sure wish they'd let Pete back in. I wish he'd have just come clean a lot sooner so he had a fighting chance. He belongs in the HOF if anyone ever belonged.

Nobody wins in this mess. Well, the lawyers do, but they always win.
I'm really on the fence right now, waiting to see what happens and how MLB justifies the penalty. In essence, I don't agree at all. But the pusher thing really does upset me. If I can get behind any ban or suspension, this is it.

I'm still pissed that MLB didn't level all these penalties at once and singled out Braun. While he may have deserved it in a way for his arrogance the last time around, it still wasn't right.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

Big time silly Scott. :bh :bh

4,256 hits is crazy!!!

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

It is my understanding that MLB is considering a lifetime ban NOT for A-Rod's alleged cheating with PEDs due to a connection to Biogenesis, but rather because A-Rod is refusing to just lay down and roll over by accepting a deal for a shorter suspension. His contention that he is innocent may or may not be true, yet any person should be allowed his "day in court" if he chooses. However, since A-Rod asserts he is innocent and will not in effect plead guilty by accepting a plea, MLB has taken the position that "OK, you don't wanna take the medicine we're forcing down your throat, well then take THIS instead!"

I don't like A-Rod, I don't necessarily believe him when he says he didn't do nuttin', and I would not cry and moan were he suspended for an extended period of time . . . if shown guilty of a violation, that is. (Being stupid enough to get within a mile of Biogenesis in the first place is, to me, NOT a "ban-able" offense in and of itself). Still, I have trouble with ANY fascist power-hungry person or organization, and for MLB to threaten A-Rod with a lifetime ban because he won't lay down and eat, say, a 100-game suspension without a fight . . . well, that's just wrong.

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As said, the fact that they are even willing to let him "negotiate" sends a TERRIBLE message to other ball players and a really terrible message to the kids in minor league ball, if you are a big enough star and you cheat the same rules won't apply to you as they apply to everyone else.

This is suppose to be a deterrent to other players, they see someone get 50 games and lose a chunk of money it might keep them from doing it, if they see someone get 100 games it should reinforce that these are the rules and you'd hope a lifetime ban would scare the **** out of the fringe players that still weren't convinced.

Now with this move the MLB in their extremely limited wisdom are sending exactly the WRONG message, if you are going to cheat, cheat like hell, cheat all you can and if you get caught a couple times, even tampering with witnesses.... well just lawyer up and we'll talk.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

I think they have the goods on him.
He is just being another Lance Armstrong, who if you believed what he said, he didnt do any of what he was accused of.
The days of being a big boy, manning up, taking your just lumps are long over.
We are in a new era of deny, deny, deny and even when you are totally nailed to a cross with evidence, continue to deny it.
As a Yankees fan, a-Rod is an embarrassment.

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I totally believed Lance Armstrong. Every word, like he was a Saint.
I wouldn't even believe directions to 7-11 from Arod.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

Ha!
First he was going to fight it legally to the end.
Seems after seeing the crap against him, is now countering the purported 200 game suspension without pay. Seems the hold out on the agreement is a reduction of the suspension given it will be lesser on the other involved players.
I hope he refuses to accept the deal and is banned for life.
This crap has to stop.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

I have no problem with banning players for life, but the problem is that there needs to be consistency. If Rodriguez goes for life, why does Braun get 65 games off his schedule on a team that is 20 games below .500? One could argue that Braun actually looks worse for baseball because he won an MVP and then immediately tested positive, to which he responded by throwing everyone under the bus, wrecked the testers reputation, lost Aaron Rodgers a year of salary and bet his own life on not cheating.

The Lifetime ban actually helps the Yankees, which I think is a joke. The Yankees don't want Alex back, they don't want to pay him, so the MLB is going to bail them out. Better believe the Yankees are pushing his ban behind the scenes.

Yahoo actually had one of their "sports commentators" release a video claiming that Pete Rose betting on baseball is actually worse than cheating the game with PED's. Of course the guy is a moron, but I digress.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

Sorry, but I cannot agree with those who support Pete Rose. The rule against gambling was hard and fast ever since the Black Sox scandal, with no doubts as to the consequences. But with PEDs, MLB first ignored the problem, then frowned upon the problem, then finally at last banned usage. As much as I might consider this "cheating", I can somewhat understand both the confusion and the temptation players faced. Furthermore, how can you condemn A-Rod for not confessing to his sins when Pete Rose was the poster-boy of denial?

Ban A-Rod for life if you must, but don't defend Charlie the Hustler at the same time. That's just flawed logic.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

They are saying the reason for the tougher punishment with A-Rod has to do with potential criminal activity to degree of tampering, recruiting and a few other things with that clinic. It's more than the use of PED's. They want to send a message as such.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

If A-Rod was shilling for illegal activity, then he should not be banned . . . he should be jailed. However, though I am no fan of his, I still want to see this proved, not merely "said".

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I value your opinon on this Adam. I don't have issue with lifetime bans for PEDs. There should be daily or weekly testing of every player with a lifetime ban / voided contract for a positive test.

Unfortunately I think you're right about the Yankees. They're probably lobbying for him to get the ban so they don't have to pay $100 Million on an average player of the next few years.

On Rose, I disagree somewhat. If a player/manager admits to gambling on games he's involved with it implies a high probability of losing for proft. This is a bit worse than trying to get a competitive edge with some new drug. At least the cheaters are trying to win, not losing on purpose for profit. Both are unacceptable but I see the sports writer's side of this one.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

I'm with Darren in this one. As for the players in the 1950s using PEDs where is the evidence for this? I have heard it so many times but never have seen any proof.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

If he accepts the suspension, or does not contest it even if doesnt accept it, that will be all the proof in the world.;)

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With A-Roid it is not just a PED issue. That is just issue one. He recruited players into Bio, when the story broke he attempted to pay off witnesses to keep quiet he lied to MLB during the investigation. Not sure if anyone listened to ESPN radio this morning but they had a biographer on who wrote about A-Roid after his public admission. He was associated in High School with people who had access to steroids. Can if be proven he was using PEDs since High School probably not. Can you assume with what you have seen that he has been a user his whole life? I personally think he has been cheating from the very start. A-Roid does not care about baseball and knows at this point he has zero chance to make money off the game when he retires and the HOF is completely gone for him. He is fighting not to be able to play but to be able to collect $100M still on the contract. If he never plays another game I won't be sad.
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Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

:tpd:

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

The whole thing seems to me like a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. If you accept a plea bargain, you are guilty. If you fight it, you are hiding something and thus are guilty.

Hey, I keep telling you I don't like this jerk any better than the next thinking guy. I merely want justice done, not spiteful vengeance.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

Can't look at it that way.
If innocent, you defend yourself.
If you accept a plea, you are guilty and have a reason to take the plea, generally to reduce your sentence/punishment.
Happens in criminal courts and prosecutors offices every day.
If we applied same logic, those criminals with now convictions are the A-Rod you refer to.
Just food for thought.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

It's just a known fact. Realize PED stands for "performance enhancing drug". You can dump alcohol, vitamins, cocaine, and any other substance in that category. It's not just steroids.
There are lots of books that reference the topic of drugs in sports, like "A History of Drug Use in Sport: 1876-1976: Beyond Good and Evil" By Paul Dimeo.
I don't mean any disrespect at all, but if you haven't seen any proof, you're not looking, brother.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

Yep.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

None taken Scott :tu I'll check those out.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

Jake, here's an excellent "Sports and Drugs Timeline".
The good sports/drug/history books are around 40 bucks at Amazon. I don't think that's what you're after, they're like reading a thousand pages of shampoo ingredients.
That timeline is a good little read. :tu

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

Maybe they had bacne or their forehead got bigger or some other ridiculous innuendo bullcrap I've had to hear ad nauseum for the past dozen years...

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

I've never seen alcohol or cocaine enhance anyone's performance.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

David Wells "claims" he pitched his no-hitter drunk.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

That should count for 2.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

I just heard a nugget on this...
They say Aroid made a comment after his Double A game last night about MLB (and someone else) conspiring against him, and now MLB has ceased negotiations, saying they're all done.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

Typical A-roid, bullshitting out of one side of his mouth while doing the exact opposite. They are saying ban is the rest of this year and all of next.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

Being a Sox fan, I say BAN HIM.

Bluff: if they ban him, this starts a tough road to MLB strictly enforcing a policy they randomly test players to adhere to. There is no clear cut "right answer". I say, cap his pay at the league minimum for the remainder of his career.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

Sure, ban him for life and let him go do autographs with Pete Rose.

Signed,

A Mets Fan ;)

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

If you dislike the Yankees you DON'T want him banned for life, if they ban him for life the MFYs don't have to pay him anymore, the guy has been pretty much useless for years and set to make 25mm each of the next years, you want him to get 1 yr then "come back and play and get paid".

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

214 games.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

I think this is unfortunate.... I think they should have made him play out his contract w/ NYY, at 3rd base, 162 games a year....+ every possible playoff game.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

This.


I can't stand A-Rod, but let's have proof before anything rash is done.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

Exactly, Scott.
This is my whole argument regarding PEDs. Drinking too much Red Bull before a test and you will get popped by the MLB PED test. Anyone ever read the list of banned substances by the MLB? It's crazy. Sticking a needle in your rear end is one thing, but these guys can't even use a steroid cream to come back from injury and heal. You might as well make sure that players eat only organic foods b/c all of our meat is jacked up with steroids, and most of our vegetables are genetically modified. That stuff is going into their bodies, why not go ahead and ban that too?


Why is this not an issue in the NFL?

Sorry for the rant.;s

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

Arod is gonna get the sink tossed at him. 214 games seems to be what the standard mlb leak says, but I wouldn't be remotely surprised if they try to fly a lifetime ban, then settle with Aroid's lawyers at around 100 games (despie Selig being furious with Aroid) .

Two things that upset me...
1.) MLB can't do anything without every stitch of information being leaked to media. It's retarded, and shows Selig can't do his job with any sort of professionalism.
2.) Aroid is getting the Bonds treatment. Fans and media do not like Aroid and do not want him breaking any records. Bonds was in the same boat.

These penalties should not be about a personality contest. Look at the things Ortiz, Sosa, Pettite, and other media darlings have done. None have ever gotten any sort of meaningful penalty for the same things.
Now MLB is going to "take a stance". That's complete and utter bullshit. This whole thing has NOTHING to do with right and wrong. It has to do with money and making the product as palatable as possible for fans that inject said money.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. It's a privately owned and operated game meant for our entertainment. So far as I know, all this could be contrived, just like in the WWF, just to increase the buzz around baseball and raise attendance and junk sales.
My point is, I don't appreciate being lied to. Nobody does. It's insulting.
For MLB to say now that they're all about some sort of war on drugs, that's just ludicrous. If that was so, half the league would be sitting out 50 day suspensions for failing on recreational drugs and Red Bull.

MLB has had TWENTY YEARS to set penalties for these sort of infractions and to end this nonsense. It's all been crystal clear since McGwire and Canseco were tearing up the league at a phenomenal pace as the Bash Brothers.
Penalties should be clear and concise, no nonsense, and should have been that way for a long, long time now. Yet if it's a player that people don't like, he gets 64 games instead of 50. Or 214 instead of 100 (which is the penalty set for a second PED infraction).

I have zero respect for Selig's office at this point. He deserves zero credibility.
As much as we all gripe about Roger Goodell, that boy runs his operation like the Marines compared to these MLB monkies.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

This isn't an issue in the NFL (as far as positive tests go, at least), because the NFL has long had the most stringent drug testing program of the 4 most prevalent leagues. Mandatory test at the NFL Combine for all incoming athletes, mandatory tests once a year for every player, and random testing of 10 players on every team, every week.

The MLB never had a drug program for PED's, people started to chime in about getting one, and frankly the MLB rushed to create a drug program to save face. They were fine with Sammy and Mark putting butts in the seats, fine with homeruns flying out of the parks and then they got too big for their britches. People began pushing back claiming that they were allowing PED's to ruin the game, when records started getting broken.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

So they announced 12 but no Arod yet, he get's his own announcement, I suppose when you are recruiting players to use that clinic and roids it's a special case, shmuck.

The players confirmed to be suspended by FoxSports.com are:

• Nelson Cruz, Texas Rangers outfielder (50 games, no appeal).

• Everth Cabrera, San Diego Padres shortstop, (50 games, no appeal).

• Jhonny Peralta, Detroit Tigers shortstop (50 games, no appeal).

• Antonio Bastardo, Philadelphia Phillies reliever (50 games, no appeal).

• Jordany Valdespin, New York Mets outfielder, (50 games, no appeal).
• Francisco Cervelli, Yankees catcher.

• Jesus Montero, Seattle Mariners catcher.

• Cesar Puello, New York Mets outfield prospect.

• Fautino De Los Santos, San Diego Padres pitching prospect.

• Sergio Escalona, Houston Astros pitching prospect.

• Fernando Martinez, New York Yankees outfield prospect.

• Jordan Norberto, free-agent pitcher.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

This article seems informative, but who knows.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/05/sp....html?hpw&_r=0

When they say that there is a noon announcement, I would have thought 12 EDT, but no announcement yet.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

What's the punishment for all of the prospects?

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

Two Mets...go figure. Two Yankees too...three if you count Montero (He used to be a Yankee). :D

The good news is that Valdespin hasn't contributed anything to the big ball club in over 6 weeks...so this hurts us how? :r :r :r

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

I don't get this at all. As I've said before, I am not a fan of A-Rod. Plus, as a Yankee fan, I can see the potential benefits of getting rid of him and his contract, at least in the long term. But to give him over 4 times the penalty issued against others, for something they they have yet to prove? Is that right? MLB is using the excuse that A-Rod is a repeat offender, yet a) he has never tested positive for PEDs, and b) he has never been disciplined or penalized in the past. How can they possibly invoke some sort of "three-strike rule" under these circumstances?

Hey, it is what it is, or what it will be, but I don't think it is just. Is he guilty? It would not shock me if he is. And if he is, then smack him hard. But smack him fairly and justifiably, not just because he's an @$$.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

The latest report has the suspension handed down by MLB to have been reduced from the reported 214 games . . . down to 211. :r



A-Rod will doubtless appeal, so who know when this ban will start.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

I am confused. I just don't get the "we need proof" audience.

If an employer (MLB in this case), suspects and feels they have evidence an employee (A-Rod in this case and a bunch of other employees) have been involved in what they deem inappropriate and unacceptable for the work environment and said employer decides to fire some, punish others with suspensions and perhaps even excuse a few, that is wrong how? They have to prove it to who?

Question, where is their player's union? Why aren't they asking for the evidence? Or filing suit? If and when that happens, then and only then will the employer need to show said proof. Until then, they obviously feel they have the goods to support their decision.

My only gripe is how short that suspension list is and I know the reason why as there would otherwise be no players left to play the game. That is the truly sad part.

Re: Lifetime Ban for A-Rod?
 

We are only the fans that watch the game from our couches. I have no doubt that all of the evidence was presented in the proper manner to the proper people and that the union did what they could to help the players as best that they could. My biggest gripe is that I thought the penalty was 50, 100 then lifetime ban. How did they collectively come up with 211? Also, why does it appear that ARod is the only player that will be granted an appeal? We can only sit here and speculate as to what really happened behind closed doors. In my opinion, there are so many unaswered questions with all of this that it makes my head spin.