Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

Bought some cigars from Smoke Inn a few weeks ago. I left them in the plastic bag with a 67% humidification pillow underneath a cedar sheet. Hygrometer read 62-65% fairly steadily. Didn't want to put them in my humidor as I normally freeze first and planned to smoke them fairly soon.

Smoked the Liga last weekend and the draw seemed a little tight and smoke was somewhat thin. It eventually went out after about 2/3's and I didn't bother to re-light it. I was pretty disappointed for a $13 cigar.

In that same plastic bag were also an Undercrown and a MUWAT. Smoked the Undercrown a couple days ago and I was satisfied with the burn/draw. Smoked the MUWAT tonight and it was perfect. Not one touch-up, nice creamy smoke, good ash and flavor down to about 1.5" or so when I tossed it. Very impressed.

So, 3 cigars in the same bag, only the No. 9 was disappointing. Should I shoot DE an email?

Also, what are your opinions with zip-lock bags? How long will you store them with or without a humidification device?

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

Probably a lemon. Never had any issues.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

Draw issues with one cigar and you're thinking about emailing the manufacturer?
The cigars we smoke (for the most part) are a hand made product. Once in a while you will get one that is off for any number of reasons. Deal with it and move on.
:2

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

Definitely not. :2

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

I wouldn't worry about it. 1 bad cigar doesn't make the whole line bad. I've never had any issues with them.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

This is what we run into when we buy online. If your cigar is bad, there's very little recourse for a make-up on a bad cigar. That being said, every no. 9 I've smoked has been fine. I had a T52 toro that canoed but I was able to recover by a clip and relight. Now if you bought several and they were all bad, then I could understand emailing manufacturer. A reputable B&M would've made this up if you would've bought it from them.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

Really? You'd go back to the B&M and try to get another cigar?

Jeeze...

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

:tpd:

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

Chris, any number of things could have caused the burn issues with your cigar. Smoking outside in humid south Florida, especially with how windy and rainy last weekend was could have been the issue. Don't write off the line based on one example.

And in response to the comment about reputable B&Ms, Smoke Inn is a B&M first and foremost. They also sell online, but Abe and his guys are 100% committed to customer service. There have been plenty of posts here commenting about how they include hand written notes with online orders, and sometimes extra cigars and swag find their way into outgoing boxes. If Chris was smoking the cigar in the shop and brought an issue to their attention, I'm certain they would have done something to make it right.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

Yes I would. What's the problem with that? If it's truly a bad cigar, it should be made up. They get it back from the rep. It's all about keeping customers happy and encouraging them to come back. If I get stiffed enough times on 10 to 12 buck sticks, I'd seriously reevaluate what I buy if the B&M refused to make up bad product. So, if I bought a no. 9 from a B&M and it died due to poor construction, you darn skippy I'd ask for a replacement. Perhaps you have gobs of disposable income that would insulate you from this. But, FYI, I've only requested a make up twice in a 3 year period. I've not had the experience that some have had in a run of bad sticks.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

LP#9's tend to be rolled denser than most cigars (and that is why they feel heavier) so draw and burn issues are not uncommon, especially in humid weather. That is why its always good to have some sort of a cigar poker to save them.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

I meant kindly email DE to see if they'd be willing to send a replacement, not ream them out. I'm a big fan of DE and was really looking forward to enjoying the No. 9. I can't see myself spending $26 overall to enjoy this thing though, especially as a cheapass low income college student. I don't feel it's the B&M's obligation unless I was smoking it in the shop.

And as Brian mentioned, I really appreciate Smoke Inn and their friendly staff. Awesome B&M and don't really want to bother them with a cigar I bought 3 weeks ago.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

Sometimes you have to make a write-off. It's a handmade cigar. Not every cigar will be smokeable. Write it off, smoke another one.:cf2

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

Chris, sorry you had an issue with your stick.....I haven't had any problems with them, like all the others said 1 stick isn't going to make the whole line bad and as Peter said this is a hand made product, things happen.....it's the nature of the beast.

Just by another or a 5er

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

This is interesting. I was gifted a #9 Belicoso and smoked it a week or so ago. It was very light in hand and was underpacked IMO. It's draw was like a drinking straw and took me about 45 minutes to smoke that Belicoso. While it tasted good they could have added more tobacco.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

Hmmm... Mine are all at least 2 years or older, and I have never experienced that, and the Beli's are my favorite of this blend. Wonder if its a newer one and maybe they've lightened up on the leaf count to make more of them since they are always so scarce?

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

Agreed 103%. Now and then, you get a bad one. Tis the nature of the beast, being handmade. Write it off and try another.....:2

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

That's a helluva jump to make. One guy gets an underfilled cigar that slips past QC and all of a sudden your assertion is that the entire line is being intentionally underfilled to increase production?

No, they have not "lightened up on the leaf". The current scarcity is mostly due to a few years of wrapper leaf shortages and other issues, so "lighting up on the (filler) leaf" wouldn't do anything to help those regards. Additionally, any change to the filler would noticeably alter the flavor.

The guys over at DE wouldn't even consider doing anything like that. They aren't going to sacrifice their flagship cigar, or any of their lines for that matter, into crap just to milk an extra 10% production by shorting tobacco. In fact, I can't think of any major manufacturer who would be that foolish and dishonest.

Since they can only make as many LPs as materials allow, you have the alternate products they have released, the Undercrown made from more readily available tobaccos and the Papas Fritas made from the trimmings of the LP line.

As for the cigar Dunkel got, sounds like a "bad" stick. It is a handmade product after all. And while they do catch a lot of the off cigars, sometimes things slip past QC (hey, they're only human too).

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

Thanks, Phil. ;)

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

I have smoked a lot of Ligas, I'd put them as close to perfect (Construction Wise) as any cigar I've ever smoked. I've had a few (Very Few) issues with crooked burn, and a couple rather loose draws, but I can't remember any tight draws or plugged cigars. In fact their construction is one of the reasons I like them, I hate fiddling with a cigar and Ligas very rarely require fiddling. Granted I haven't had one in a while, So maybe they've gone down hill lately?

As for returning it, I most definitely am not a rich man, but I've never considered returning a bad stick. Maybe if I bought one to sit down and smoke at a B&M and it was completely plugged I would, but not once I got it home.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

That was a question, not an assertion. But I'm not sure it would make the cigar "bad" if they did. I'm a big fan of all things Liga Privada, and JD and Steve Saka have always struck me as stand-up guys. No insult meant by that question, so I'm sorry if it came out the wrong way.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

I would suit and/or burn the B&M down.;)

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

How would you do that? Do you save all your receipts for the cigars you buy? Would you walk in with a mostly smoked cigar and complain? And what would the shop get back? A single stick?


If you get multiple bad sticks from a B&M, I'd consider going to a different one. A single bad stick is bound to happen at some point.

I dont have gobs of income or time, which is why I wouldnt waste my time, and gas, driving all the way back to the shop to try to get another cigar.

FWIW, I've asked to return cigars to CI.com and it went very smooth. But that was after 4 out of 10 were bad, not 1, and it was in fact months later...

But for a single stick man? :sh

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

Understood.

It would totally change the flavor, there are 5 distinctly different leaves in the filler, removing one would be leaving out a component of that flavor.

DE uses a slightly non-standard folding system for the filler when rolling, they have some extra folds in there to create additional air passages through the filler. In order for the extra folds & passages to work though, they have to use a bit less tobacco in the filler than if they were to roll it with the more traditional methods. IIRC, Jon said it was like 15%. Now, if you significantly short that by making all the leaves smaller, then you're going to have so much draw through there, the cigar isn't going to burn even remotely evenly, and the ratio from wrapper & binder vs filler will change enough that the wrapper, if it will even burn at that point, will be overwhelmingly noticeable.

The other thing is that even if they were to short all the filler by trimming the leaves a bit smaller, it wouldn't be enough to make another LP out of. Without doing it, there's already enough trimming that doesn't get used in the LP to make the Papas Fritas and still leave a pile of scrap for picadura, adding to the LP scrap won't get them more PFs, it'll just make a bigger pile of picadura and a bunch of LPs with the draw of a paper towel roll tube. Neither of which are worth a whole lot.

If I had to guess, what happened to Dunkel's cigar was that possibly the filler bunch was cut/torn a bit small - enough to open it up a tiny bit, but yet not enough to cause the bundle to weigh light when QC puts the finished wheel of cigars on the scale. If a tiny amount less filler causes a cigar to draw like that, then imagine what a significant removal would be like...

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

Thrak, you are making waaay too big an issue out of this. One would wonder why it bothers you so much? Every B&M I know has a long standing policy of replacing bad sticks and every single one of my smoking buddies has had one made up. I don't really know why you make so many assumptions such as implying I'd make a special trip to do so.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

Every cigar smoker should have a draw tool. It really is as simple as that.

I've "saved" cigars worth hundreds of dollars with one $15 tool, which I keep in my travel box all the time.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

I use a Havana Saver for the majority of my cigars because I'm a nubber! And it works as a draw tool as well. I have the Iron Cross model.

http://www.havanasaver.com/content/products

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

Where do you guys purchase these from? I'll Google around later.

Edit - Think I might grab this guy

http://www.ebay.com/itm/United-State...item4ab4ea1f7c

or this

http://www.thompsoncigar.com/product...ts?cm_vc=10001

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

That's interesting, sometimes when my cutter isn't at hand I take a pocket knife and cut around the cap of a cigar, then pull off the cap, leaving the internals unmolested. I've noticed that a lot of LPs have this little divot dead center in the head of the cigar. Never noticed it on any other stick, not that I've gone around checking for it. I have wondered about that little divot a few times, is it there on purpose to facilitate LPs near unfailingly good draw? Hell has anyone else noticed it?

Alternatively I could be crazy and imagining things.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

If we are talking about the same thing, I've seen that before on many different cigars, possibly some of them being Liga Privadas. It has to do with the way the binder or wrapper leaf is applied (either could cause it), when the buncher or roller twists the end of the leaf up around the head, they spin it into a little tail, press the head down on her rolling block to form the rounded shape which will push this tail into the cigar slightly.

The slightly more open bunching of the LP would make it easier for this stub tail to make a noticeable divot in the filler bunch.

Next time you cut a cap off that way and find a divot in the filler, take a look at the inside of the cap, the inward projecting "tail" should be visible.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

PM Forrest (Golfnut). He makes some nice draw tools.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

This. Slickster81 also makes a nice draw tool.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

I've been quite pleased with the draw tool that I got from Troy ("Boom").

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

I have noticed this on many an Undercrown, as well as some other brands. Very interesting info, I hadn't really given it much thought until I read this.

As far as LPs, I don't smoke a ton of them due to price/HTF, but I've never had one that didn't smoke perfectly.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

All the DE cigars I've had were exquisite, never had any issues like those mentioned above. Johnathan and Steve hold it down.. I'm sure if you e-mailed them they'd work to fix the issue..

With that being said: I feel that'd probably be bad form to e-mail a company over something like that. Sorry to be so late to the discussion - I'm just a newb. <3

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

The last one I smoked was sub par at best but as stated earlier, they are handmade and have the possibility of not living up to expectations. I certainly wouldn't email or call DE or the B & M because of it. Stuff happens.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

Have been fortunate enough to have never had a single issue with a No. 9. Other than I never can have enough of them. :dr :dr

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

The only issue I've had with the Liga stuff is when they run out :D

While I personally wouldn't ask to have it replaced due to the hand made nature of the product, I have no doubt if you asked, DE would replace it. Jonathan Drew and the rest of DE take quality control VERY seriously. JD routinely posts on reddit in r/cigars and always offers to replace sticks that have construction issues. Just one of the reasons I love supporting them.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

+1. In fact, I'd go so far as to suggest that maybe JD and Steve have a small backfire on their hands. They've been so gracious and public about immediately trying to satisfy customers who've had a bad stick....maybe just my overactive imagination, but I suspect we see more posts (on all forums) taking DE to task for bad singles. A cynic would say that some may be more likely to announce a bad experience for attention or replacements from them. I am NOT passing judgement on OP here - just an observation in general after following numerous forums. Really.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

I would guess that DE keeps some sort of record of what they send out, but maybe not. At the end of the day, it really does not cost them much to make things right. As many have mentioned, one of their trademarks is having such good quality control to begin with.

I also like to believe that our fellow S/BOTLs are better than trying to rip off a manufacturer that goes out of their way to support the community.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

Bruce,
I didn't express it well, but I was thinking that they'd be 'hurt' more by the 'publicity' of repetitive posts about 'bad' cigars, than by the financial cost of being a stand-up company. I may be way off with each of my suppositions.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

Oh I gotcha.

If anything, I see it helping more than hurting. Having a manufacturer so willing to stand by their product is impressive in my mind.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

I decided to give it a shot and sent them a very friendly email. Definitely won't change my view of DE either way it turns out, but would be nice to give the No. 9 another try.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

Only problem I have with the Liga no. 9 is that there aren't more of them in my humidor.

But seriously, sounds like you got a dud. It happens. I've always had good draw and construction with the Drew Estate products I have experienced.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

Best of luck. Jonathan might be the better person to e-mail. Steve's a nice guy in person, but from what I've experienced -- his e-mail inbox also generates dust.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

I got an email from John Brooke (jbrooke@drewestate.com) and all he did was blame it on over humidification in the ziplock bad I stored it in, and a few tips on how to store cigars. Although the recently calibrated hygrometer never peaked 66% and the other two cigars in the bag smoked perfect. I thought over humidification at first but these two points lead me to believe it wasn't that. Maybe later on down the line I'll pick another one up.

As a cheap college student, I normally don't spend more than $8-9 on a cigar so this was an exception. Ooohhhh welllll. Thanks for all the comments!

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

Sorry it didn't turn out as you had hoped. There are many more Ligas out there, just hope this one experience didn't ruin the Liga line for you.. Good luck in your future smokes, Chris.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

His reasoning is a solid one but either way as others mentioned it's a hand made product and you will have tough draws from time to time. It comes with the territory of being a cigar smoker. I would say I experience it at least one out of ten sticks of various brands and price points. I do find cigars with Broadleaf wrapper tend to absorb humidity more than non Broadleaf wrapped cigars which is why I usually try and keep those cigars in the drier part of my cabinet. Could that stick have had direct exposure to the water pillow? With your storage conditions I would look into picking up an old cedar cigar box to use as a dry box and dry box for a day or two prior to smoking to avoid smoking sticks that could possibly be over humidified.:2

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

I made sure to put a small cedar sheet between the pillow and the cigars. I was starting to consider dry boxing but I smoke on a very irregular basis so it's hard to determine a couple days out if I'll find the opportunity to smoke.

Re: Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?
 

Brooke is probably right. Correlation does not equal causation. Just because the other two cigars were ok, doesn't mean that the LP wasn't over humidified. Could have happened before you bought it, could have happened in the bag.