JoePa Statue coming down...
 

Rush to judgement before ALL evidence comes out?...Necessary for true healing and moving forward?...Thoughts...

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I agree with it personally. Enough evidence has been presented for me to form a pretty good opinion on the case. In my mind he's guilty until proven innocent.

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Sucks for what a legend he was but if he did what they say it's hard to leave it there! I was the biggest supporter of JoPa but I Just wish I knew all the facts

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I completely disagree with this. Until ALL the evidence has been brought to the table...stop making judgement. :2

But in the social media crazed world we live in today, I can understand why the university did it.

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What evidence are we waiting for? A statement from Paterno perhaps? Are they planning a seance? One of his coaches raped little boys for 10 years... I can't imagine what you would need beyond that to take the guys statue down and cease all hero worship, but hey that's me.

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It was smart in the sense that it will prevent any vandalism of the statue or people taking it down themselves :2

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The Freeh report was extremely biased. Its shows overwhelming information from the victims point of view (which I have no problem with, but it doesn't show Paternos side...only that of the decision made my those with the decision making authority). Paterno family investigation is ongoing as we speak. Will shed a different light on perspective based from JoePas side, showing that he clearly notified his chain of command (school officials) and that the final decision did not lie in his hands. Did he do what was required of him? Yes...he reported information to his superiors. Could he have done more??? Definitley....once the school administration didn't react, he should have taken it to authorities. JoePa did nothing criminal. He did not witness the crime, he was told about it. Should the janitors who saw the crime and did absolutely nothing face a form of penalty as well? What about the asstistant coach who went home and told his father...then waited a few days before letting Paterno know?

Was it Paterno who raped the boys? No...but here we go again, quick to judge Paterno based on media information. So to make sure I understand your point of view...since Paterno was the head football coach, actions of one his coaches were his fault? Since Sandusky was a pedofiler...Paterno must be involved? Come on man!!!

So Paternos 46 year tenure has come to this? IMHO, this is very sad. Not nearly as sad as the abuse the victims were subjected too. But I personally believe the blame cannot be layed on Paterno for the actions of a troubled man.

Compelling arguements can me made for both sides on this case. Bottom line up front is that the victims MUST be taken care of and Sandusky must pay for his crimes. In the wake of the aftermath of this tragic event, mudslinging, finger pointing and passing the buck are happening around the clock. While sad, the times we live in show that you can do 1,000 great things...but people will only remember you for the ONE mistake you make (Paterno for not going to the authorities).

This being the great nation that it is...everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

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Vary well said Mac. :tu

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I agree it's sad that all the good Paterno did can be erased by the bad, but if the Freeh report is accurate, then the bad was enough. I really don't have much doubt of his investigative skills, considering he was head of the FBI.

But, if Paterno can somewhat clear his name, I agree with Christos that taking the statue down protects it from vandalism in the mean time.

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YES! Absolutely, totally, YES! Paterno knew it was happening and did not stop it, whether he did everything legally required to cover his and his football program's ass makes no difference to me at all.

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I have very strong feelings about this case but also agree with the notion that final judgment - and dissemination of the complete truth - has not yet occurred. While much information is public, and the actions/involvement of many are quite clear, the fact remains that we are all still forming opinions without the complete picture.

HOWEVER, I have to also agree that, while criminal judgment should not be made at this time, enough information has come to light to make a moral judgment on a few things. Specifically, regardless of the details of their actions, the failure by men (and I use that term very lightly) to stand up and stop the rape of children.

The right choices in life are NEVER the easy choices but, invetibaly, we all face them and are put to the truest test of who we are. Many knew and collectively worked to hide what happened for a very long time. That man - and yes, the janitors, too - sacrificed his honor and deserves to have all of his life's good works stripped from history.

They cemented their legacies. Not the media, not the courts, not those children. They chose to be remembered forever as men who allowed children to be raped when they could have stopped it. Nothing else will ever matter.

This is one of those situations that is simply terrible in every possible way. The best we can possibly hope for is that we are all reminded of how important it is to live life with honor and do what is right, especially when the right thing is so hard...

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Excuse me???? :bh

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Agreed, whether he was doing it or knew it was being done is regardless. Paterno deserves to rot. There is no valid excuse for this and it makes me sick to my stomach.

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Not only did he know about it, but after he retired, they awarded him and continued to give him access to the recreational facilities. Imagine if this was a religious institution and not a college football team.

You can bet that the people that made this decision know a lot more about the events than we do.

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Sandusky was the troubled man...not Paterno.

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But could you also consider someone troubled for covering up what Sandusky did? Less troubled than Sandusky, sure, but troubled nonetheless.

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So if one of my employees comes to me and informs me that another employee is molesting your son kelmac. Don't you think it is a crime if I do not report that your son was being molested?

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If he did in fact "cover it up"...I say yes, troubled for sure.

As stated in a previous post, the Freeh report is extremely biased. Paterno reported the action to his boss (athletic director) and the action taken after that was out of his hands (as far as decision making). Agreed, again above, that once he saw the administrators weren't taking action...he should have went to the authorities. Paterno didn't run Penn State University...those decisions should have been made by the Board of Trustees/President. Why are there names not being drug through the mud like Paternos is?

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But Marc...Paterno did report the action to his boss (athletic director). If in fact he didn't report it to anyone, then yes he is guilty of a crime.

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The others will be eventually, I'd guess, but probably not to the same extent as Paterno simply because Paterno is so well known. I disagree to some extent to the report being biased, but do agree that it won't be until after the civil trial that Paterno's name can really be damned or cleared. But, taking down the statue, at least for the mean time, is arguably a wise decision.

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So if I reported a crime to my dad but did not call the police its OK? Shifting blame on such a terrible crime is bullshit. Then to allow sanduche to continue to run a children's charity. Give me a break!
,

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I didn't say it was ok..I said it wasn't a crime.

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I am not sure what the mandatory reporting laws are for PA, but in Oregon, I believe this would not be a crime, but instead a violation. Further, in Oregon, report to your boss is not sufficient. It must be reported to a law enforcement official or DHS. I believe this makes the most sense. How can you believe that it is "right" to report this to a "chain of command" type of system instead of directly to DHS or LEO? When he went through the chain of command, it would be delayed and would be influenced by politics.

Also, how is the Fresh report biased? As a outsider I was amazed by the report. This is a internal investigation paid by the school. I was assuming that the report would have cleared the school of wrongdoing. Instead the report completely attacked the department and school admins for what happened. I was shocked and impressed.

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This is one of those situations that is simply terrible in every possible way. The best we can possibly hope for is that we are all reminded of how important it is to live life with honor and do what is right, especially when the right thing is so hard...

Yup- I agree. Hindsight is always 20/20.

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I said he legally did the "right" thing by reporting it to his superiors. The morally "right" thing to do would have been to take it law enforcement. He was allowing his chain of command to take the appropriate action...which we all agree, they didn't. I liken this to being in the Army for 23+ years, you don't jump chain of command. You notify your higher ups and if action isn't taken, you notify your chain of command that you are taking the action to a higher level. Which Paterno should have done.

Biased in that it lumps "university" into whole. It clearly stated that Spainer, Curley and Schultz were the administration of PSU, not Paterno. The Freeh Report states that "university" didn't take the appropriate action in accordance with the law, failing to comply with the Clery Act. A federal law that requires reporting of certain crimes on campus. The report clearly tells of findings in what the university did wrong. It aso refers to the university and it's administrations faiures...again, Paterno was not in the decision making process for anything outside of the football program.

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Its a shame it had to end this way. However, the statute needed to come down.

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I don't know what more we need to learn about JoePa other than his personal attempt to silence this matter and trying to sweep it under the rug rather than ensuring that Sandusky was reported years ago when he first knew about the acts. His desire was to keep from harming the school/program more so than protecting the innocent kids Sandusky was taking advantage of in the shower and everywhere else.

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I don't give a rats behind about the chain of command when it comes to doing the morally right thing. JoePa was bigger than the school's board of directors, AD, and the president so it's not like he would have been fired for it. Had it been found out that it was someone you known personally that was abused by Sandusky, I doubt you'd just say Paterno did all he was obligated to do and only hold contempt for the administration. Even the assistant coach who witnessed the acts and moved no further than reporting it to JoePa is just as bad. He's been a liar in the whole debacle and just trying to CYA now.

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Calling a convicted pedophile "troubled" is like calling Charles Manson manipulative. It hardly conveys the true nature of their crimes.

Joe Pa did nothing to follow up on his initial "reporting" to the administration. In fact he actively worked to make sure the situation was minimized. He and the administrators were more concerned with the reputation of the university than the health and welfare of the children.

How many who were molested chose not to come forward? Where is the Paterno family's concern for the victims? They are talking about funding an "independent" inquiry but have donated nothing towards those who were molested. :2

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Agreed, "troubled" wasn't the correct word Bob...didn't think "sick, twisted f*@&" was appropriate for the board.

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The bottom line is that Sandusky was a monster who preyed on children. Paterno's complicity in the matter makes him just as guilty IMO. His inaction resulted in further children being victimized. May both of them rot in the deepest portions of hell :2

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Sandusky has to die before he rots in Hell. Hopefully a slow, painful death.

Sorry, I usually don't go "there" on this board, but that POS raped children. Death is too good for him.

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The board of trustees aren't worshipped as Football Messiahs and there are no statues to take down.

The fact that he should have gone to the authorities and didn't I guess we agree on, I'm not sure if you feel this lack of reporting warrants his statue being removed, but I certainly do.

The bottom line that is important to me: He knew children were being raped and did not tirelessly work to put a stop to it using any and all means at his disposal but instead allowed it to continue. Whether he actively tried to cover it up is, once again, unimportant.

He knew about it, could have stopped it, and didn't even attempt to do so beyond some pass it off to someone else CYA bullcrap. Unless more evidence comes to light indicating he was on his way to the cops but was hit on the head and developed amnesia causing him to forget Sandusky was a child molester I really know all I need to be happy his statue is coming down.

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And the great thing...we are all entitled to our own opinions. :D

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The total cost to the University is going to make taking the statue down irrelevant. The fact is he lacked morality in doing what was right in the Christian sense. Yes, he did what was required, but considering heinous nature of what his staff did; it was not enough.

Paterno's actions are not nearly as bad as the Chancellors, for which they should be punished legally. The University is going to lose tens of millions of dollars over this and think of the innocent children who were harmed.

When Chancellors from PA’s other Universities heard what Penn did, they were beside themselves and rightly so.

Perhaps over time there will be healing and his statue won’t represent something so gross, but for right now; removing it is appropriate.

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Yep, Tom said it right.

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Maybe they should bury the statue's head in some sand.

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Touché.

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Playing Devil's advocate for a minute.

How do we know that JoPa didn't consider taking it to the authorities, but was told not to, and that the higher-ups would take care of the problem? We may never know.

Nonetheless, Sandusky needs to be "accidentally" put in general population.

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Reminds me of this:

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/3458/eqjuo.png

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Rob is funny, Sarah needs some Midol.

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Yes, yes he is.

http://www.explosm.net/comics/author/Rob/


/end threadjack

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If that were true, then he was more of an a..hole than we know.
Did enough years pass by for him to realize no one ever notified the authorities as no action was taken at all?
There is simply no excuse for his actions and more importantly, lack thereof.

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And no punishment will ever be harsh enough.Just ask any of those boys or their parents.
Any parent that says the punishment is too harsh really needs to understand exactly what they are saying.

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Flash-back to the mid-sixties when a 10 year old boy is riding his bike home and a stranger on a bike asks him to help him find his keys that somehow got lost in the bushes. The boy gets off his bike and begins to head to the bushes when all of a sudden something doesn't feel "right." He hops back on his bike and pedals as fast as he can for the 3 or 4 blocks to home, with the stranger close behind. The boy runs into the house and tells his mother immediately what had just happened and the mother jumps in the car and follows the stranger to his home, returns home and calls the police. Don't say it can't happen to your child, as it almost happened to my mother's child (me). Thankfully, we didn't have a gun in the house or the perp wouldn't have made it home. I became a star witness for my first and only time.

Guess which side I come down on.

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To me, the people who commit these type of crimes on children vs. those who harbor them is a distinction without a difference. Sandusky is disgusting and so are the people who covered up this mess. :2

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It's going to be another 60 million by the time the civil suits against the university are settled.

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With all the publicity this is getting and more people that got raped coming out of the woodwork I'd say 60mil is pretty conservative.

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I wish the child-molester enabling bastard was still alive so he could see his legacy and family name flushed, never to be revered again. He got out easy. His son and the rest of the family just needs to go away. But I am sure they will stay where they are, still worshiped by some morons in that town.

The idiots that still defend him or "the program" should be slapped into reality, hard.

The Paterno name is Mudd!

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It's a statue of a football coach, not a monumental world treasure. Leave it up, tear it down, never had it put up in the first place . . . what's the big woof?

I cannot help but recall that Dean Smith was not only the loudest, but nearly the sole, voice of protest when it was first proposed the Smith Center be named for him. He thought he was just a coach, and deserved no big credit, as it was his teams who played the game. The Paterno family needs a bit of this humility, and should put a sock in it.