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-   -   Should Penn State get the Death Penalty? (http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=57044)

jjirons69 07-17-2012 02:47 PM
Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
It's in discussion, but it seems the NCAA is waiting to see what punishment Penn State gives itself. The NCAA is not big on the death penalty because it can be quite a crippler, but the Sandusky coverup may make them move on it. If Penn State ends up punishing itself pretty extensively, the NCAA may say it's punishment enough. Looks like they're waiting on each other.

I say they meant to cover up what they could in an effort not to hurt the program, thus losing millions and millions in revenue and highly-praised recruits. They would not have overlooked the same actions by a chem lab teaching assistant. He'd been out on his azz.

jonumberone 07-17-2012 02:57 PM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
I'm not in favor of any punishment for Penn State!
While it was a heinous crime, and the cover-up is reprehensible, those involved are no longer involved with the program.
Punishing Penn State football will only hurt the students and slow the rebuilding of a program, that is desperate to heal.

The Poet 07-17-2012 03:00 PM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
I am not one of those people who have a problem with the "abuse of power" critics of the NCAA are fond of citing, though I do confess I found their recent slamming of CalTech's athletic programs to be ludicrous. And there is no doubt the heinous abuses Sandusky performed far outweigh any the NCAA could perform, nor do I argue the point Jamie makes regarding a possible cover-up attempt in State College. That being said, I do question if this issue lays outside the purview of the NCAA. Shoot, they don't even have a policy regarding criminal activities by athletes such as drug use or DWIs, so how can they take a stand on this?

I'm not saying they shouldn't, and I would have no complaint if they did impose a death penalty . . . still, I wonder at their authority to do so.

CigarNut 07-17-2012 03:13 PM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonumberone (Post 1681885)
I'm not in favor of any punishment for Penn State!
While it was a heinous crime, and the cover-up is reprehensible, those involved are no longer involved with the program.
Punishing Penn State football will only hurt the students and slow the rebuilding of a program, that is desperate to heal.
:tpd:

This is a civil matter, not an NCAA matter and the civil authorities are pursuing and prosecuting as they should. The NCAA should stick to sports. Just my :2

E.J. 07-17-2012 04:09 PM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
I don't have a strong opinion either way, though for those saying "no" related to the NCAA overstepping their bounds, what about "lack of institutional control"? To me, this seems to fit that bill perfectly.....

IMO, this is not just a civil matter, it is something that needs to be looked at by the NCAA We are talking about those in power at an institution covering up the worst of crimes, for years and years of ongoing abuse, to keep their clean reputation money making machine running.

For the record, I'd rather see the NCAA allow athletes get new cars and envelopes of cash as opposed to letting coaches, and friends of the program, rape kids and have it covered up as to not tarnish the illusion created....

E.J. 07-17-2012 04:15 PM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Oh and just to be clear, I think Penn State does need to feel this with some sort of sanctions. I don't have a strong opinion as far as them getting the Death Penalty, but yes....as an institution, they lost control and that needs to be addressed. It is unfortunate that when this stuff happens(sanctions), it usually hurts those that had no involvement....but that is the way the ball bounces with this stuff....

Stephen 07-17-2012 04:21 PM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
The NCAA needs to get involved with this about as much as Congress needed to hold hearings on steroids in MLB...:2

E.J. 07-17-2012 04:45 PM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 1681944)
The NCAA needs to get involved with this about as much as Congress needed to hold hearings on steroids in MLB...:2
So an NCAA institution that broke laws to cover their asses & reputation, shouldn't be addressed by their governing body..hummmmm:rolleyes:

oooo35980 07-17-2012 05:43 PM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
I believe they should be punished as an example to others, they did all this covering up to protect the program, for the NCAA to do nothing would amount to "Meh, as long as you didn't cheat it isn't our problem". With something this huge the pressure has to be on them to do something anyway, I don't think Penn State will be getting out of this alive.

Stephen 07-18-2012 06:16 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by E.J. (Post 1681972)
So an NCAA institution that broke laws to cover their asses & reputation, shouldn't be addressed by their governing body..hummmmm:rolleyes:
Because the issue at hand has zilch to do with athletics or collegiate athletes that are governed by the NCAA. Concealing evidence in a criminal investigation, however heinous the crime(s), doesn't give them jurisdiction (because none of their bylaws were violated). This is a lynch mob out for blood. Nothing more, nothing less.

Subvet642 07-18-2012 06:43 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by E.J. (Post 1681930)
I don't have a strong opinion either way, though for those saying "no" related to the NCAA overstepping their bounds, what about "lack of institutional control"? To me, this seems to fit that bill perfectly.....

IMO, this is not just a civil matter, it is something that needs to be looked at by the NCAA We are talking about those in power at an institution covering up the worst of crimes, for years and years of ongoing abuse, to keep their clean reputation money making machine running.

For the record, I'd rather see the NCAA allow athletes get new cars and envelopes of cash as opposed to letting coaches, and friends of the program, rape kids and have it covered up as to not tarnish the illusion created....
I'm with you, but I'd go a step further; kill the whole damned school, revoke their charter, pull all their grants. That place was Hell for, what, 14 years? How many children were tortured there? Screw the damned school! The institution, by it's acquiescence, permitted it to happen and therefore the whole institution should be held accountable. The survival of Penn State isn't worth one second of the pain, horror and misery those children went through, and to suggest that it's unfair to the professors, staff and students to close it down, I think that would be akin keeping the Nazi death camps open because the guards need the jobs. :2

smitty81 07-18-2012 06:50 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonumberone (Post 1681885)
I'm not in favor of any punishment for Penn State!
While it was a heinous crime, and the cover-up is reprehensible, those involved are no longer involved with the program.
Punishing Penn State football will only hurt the students and slow the rebuilding of a program, that is desperate to heal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CigarNut (Post 1681897)
:tpd:

This is a civil matter, not an NCAA matter and the civil authorities are pursuing and prosecuting as they should. The NCAA should stick to sports. Just my :2
The coaches and players represent the team and university with their actions. They are always in the spotlight.

What your saying is like saying if a football player got caught selling drugs, let the court handle it, there should be no punishment from the NCAA.

I'm sorry, but I disagree.

When you are a player or coach, you agree to abide by the rules and set a good example. When you mess up, your going to have to pay for the consequences.

If this happened with professors at Penn state, there would be no NCAA punishment as they are not affiliated with sports obviously.

The NCAA is the government of the athletic student body and coaching staff. If someone messes up, it's their job to take correct actions if necessary.


This sort of thing happens all the time with players. They get a DUI or in a fight or drugs charges. They obviously have court but often, if the coaches don't deal with it like they should, the NCAA will step in with a proper punishment.

I would be curious to see if the players have to sign any sort of contract once they star playing any NCAA sports basically saying that they accept the NCAA as their governing system and they agree to this and that................yadda yadda yadda.

jonumberone 07-18-2012 06:52 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oooo35980 (Post 1682039)
I believe they should be punished as an example to others,


If you lack the moral character to make the right decision by yourself, will a possible penalty from the NCAA really matter?


The people involved are gone.
All the Coaches are gone.
The AD is gone as well as his assistants.
The school President is gone.
Exactly who do you want to punish?

If you want to ban the above people from ever being involved in any NCAA activity, fine.
But what is left of Penn State, wasn't involved.

smitty81 07-18-2012 07:00 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 1682267)
Because the issue at hand has zilch to do with athletics or collegiate athletes that are governed by the NCAA. Concealing evidence in a criminal investigation, however heinous the crime(s), doesn't give them jurisdiction (because none of their bylaws were violated). This is a lynch mob out for blood. Nothing more, nothing less.
Are you kidding?

It has a LOT to do with the College athletics (NCAA).

A LOT of this happened ON campus in the LOCKER ROOM. The coaches covered it up so it wouldn't hurt their football program.

Sure, the NCAA doesn't have the authority to take legal actions like the court system but they have their own set of laws and rules that you have to agree to if you are going to be affiliated. Thats just how it is and it's always been that way.

I think your a little off track here.

I am no lynch mob, I believe in fair punishment in the court system and on the NCAA side of things. My opinion is an unbiased opinion.

smitty81 07-18-2012 07:02 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonumberone (Post 1682286)
If you lack the moral character to make the right decision by yourself, will a possible penalty from the NCAA really matter?


The people involved are gone.
All the Coaches are gone.
The AD is gone as well as his assistants.
The school President is gone.
Exactly who do you want to punish?

If you want to ban the above people from ever being involved in any NCAA activity, fine.
But what is left of Penn State, wasn't involved.
This is a good point here. Your punishing Students and people that have nothing to do with this.

I don't know, I have mixed feelings about a punishment on the team.

jonumberone 07-18-2012 07:03 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty81 (Post 1682285)
The coaches and players represent the team and university with their actions. They are always in the spotlight.

What your saying is like saying if a football player got caught selling drugs, let the court handle it, there should be no punishment from the NCAA.

If a player get's caught selling drugs, the Player is punished

I'm sorry, but I disagree.

When you are a player or coach, you agree to abide by the rules and set a good example. When you mess up, your going to have to pay for the consequences.

I am all for punishing the men involved in this!

If this happened with professors at Penn state, there would be no NCAA punishment as they are not affiliated with sports obviously.

The NCAA is the government of the athletic student body and coaching staff. If someone messes up, it's their job to take correct actions if necessary.

The Penn State Trustee's have taken action by removing everyone involved


This sort of thing happens all the time with players. They get a DUI or in a fight or drugs charges. They obviously have court but often, if the coaches don't deal with it like they should, the NCAA will step in with a proper punishment.

I would be curious to see if the players have to sign any sort of contract once they star playing any NCAA sports basically saying that they accept the NCAA as their governing system and they agree to this and that................yadda yadda yadda.
My response in red

smitty81 07-18-2012 07:11 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonumberone (Post 1682291)
My response in red
I think we are probably on the same page......

14holestogie 07-18-2012 07:18 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Death penalty? No, but some sanctions are in order. No bowls for a couple seasons, the loss of a few scholarships and the like would be the usual fate.
Like it has been said, the main parties have all been removed and punished, but the school still is culpable to the NCAA. :2

King James 07-18-2012 08:01 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
The problem with giving Penn State the death penalty is that there technically were no NCAA rules on the books that were violated, and rule violations are required in order to give the death penalty for a lack of institutional control. It will be interesting to see if the NCAA concocts a reason, and what kind of precedent that would set for handing out NCAA sanctions regarding criminal activity within an athletic program

E.J. 07-18-2012 08:05 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Stephen, Josh pretty much covered why it is a football issue...it is clear that this is more than just some criminal happening, it was enmeshed within the football program....if you cannot see that, well......we can agree to disagree.

Dom, like I stated previously, punishing the school is just how this stuff is done. Same thing with any violations. I am all in favor of the NCAA tagging coaches/administrators like they did with Sweater Vest, but the school as an institution needs to be held accountable as well. It is unfortunate that there is collateral damage, but it is just how it goes. You cannot just say, everyone is gone, let's move forward....

ChicagoWhiteSox 07-18-2012 08:13 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subvet642 (Post 1682279)
I'm with you, but I'd go a step further; kill the whole damned school, revoke their charter, pull all their grants. That place was Hell for, what, 14 years? How many children were tortured there? Screw the damned school! The institution, by it's acquiescence, permitted it to happen and therefore the whole institution should be held accountable. The survival of Penn State isn't worth one second of the pain, horror and misery those children went through, and to suggest that it's unfair to the professors, staff and students to close it down, I think that would be akin keeping the Nazi death camps open because the guards need the jobs. :2
:tpd:

I'm in favor of litigating the hell out Penn State and their employees. Should the ncaa not be held liable as well? I don't follow college sports or know really how the ncaa is structured as a governing body.. maybe someone can tell me why the ncaa is clear from all liability?

Dave128 07-18-2012 08:26 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonumberone (Post 1682286)
If you lack the moral character to make the right decision by yourself, will a possible penalty from the NCAA really matter?


The people involved are gone.
All the Coaches are gone.
The AD is gone as well as his assistants.
The school President is gone.
Exactly who do you want to punish?

If you want to ban the above people from ever being involved in any NCAA activity, fine.
But what is left of Penn State, wasn't involved.
This should do the trick, along with ripping down Paterno's statue. The rest of the school, as long as there hasn't been found that it has any further involvement, should be left as is. The current and incoming student body will ultimately decide the fate of the school with their collective pocket books (i.e I wouldn't send my kid there).

MrWolf55 07-18-2012 08:42 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave128 (Post 1682365)
This should do the trick, along with ripping down Paterno's statue. The rest of the school, as long as there hasn't been found that it has any further involvement, should be left as is. The current and incoming student body will ultimately decide the fate of the school with their collective pocket books (i.e I wouldn't send my kid there).
+1

I'm in this camp personally. Everyone who was involved in the incident is gone, and I think to shut down the program would just involve too much collateral damage. Equipment mangers, medical staff, ticket sales people, Radio & TV guys - they're all out of a job even though they had nothing to do with the scandal. But I think the people it hurts the most are the athletes, who really had nothing to do with the decisions their coaches were making. I think they'll be the ones punished the most in the long run if the ax comes down on the program.

Stephen 07-18-2012 08:53 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subvet642 (Post 1682279)
I'm with you, but I'd go a step further; kill the whole damned school, revoke their charter, pull all their grants. That place was Hell for, what, 14 years? How many children were tortured there? Screw the damned school! The institution, by it's acquiescence, permitted it to happen and therefore the whole institution should be held accountable. The survival of Penn State isn't worth one second of the pain, horror and misery those children went through, and to suggest that it's unfair to the professors, staff and students to close it down, I think that would be akin keeping the Nazi death camps open because the guards need the jobs. :2
And Godwin's Law rules the day...

Stephen 07-18-2012 08:54 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonumberone (Post 1682286)
If you lack the moral character to make the right decision by yourself, will a possible penalty from the NCAA really matter?


The people involved are gone.
All the Coaches are gone.
The AD is gone as well as his assistants.
The school President is gone.
Exactly who do you want to punish?

If you want to ban the above people from ever being involved in any NCAA activity, fine.
But what is left of Penn State, wasn't involved.
This.

Stephen 07-18-2012 08:59 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty81 (Post 1682285)
The NCAA is the government of the athletic student body and coaching staff. If someone messes up, it's their job to take correct actions if necessary.
No, they're a non-profit charter organization that exists to regulate intercollegiate competition.

Stephen 07-18-2012 09:02 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by King James (Post 1682348)
The problem with giving Penn State the death penalty is that there technically were no NCAA rules on the books that were violated, and rule violations are required in order to give the death penalty for a lack of institutional control. It will be interesting to see if the NCAA concocts a reason, and what kind of precedent that would set for handing out NCAA sanctions regarding criminal activity within an athletic program
Which is my point. There were no NCAA infractions. If they do take action it'll be unprecedented.

E.J. 07-18-2012 09:05 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 1682424)
If they do take action it'll be unprecedented.
As is what they are dealing with.....

dave 07-18-2012 09:08 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonumberone (Post 1682286)
But what is left of Penn State, wasn't involved.
Involved? In what? The rapes and the coverups? Maybe not. But many were involved in the insane rallys/riots in support of JoePa when everyone in the country outside of Happy Valley was already either uneasy or queasy about him? Many (All?) of those you're hoping to shield from harm benefited from and/or were supported by the cover-up and lack of accountability in the institution and protection of the football program.

Penn State IS football to an awful lot of people - inside and outside that community. I would have no issue with a death penalty - or any other penalty that deprives Penn State of its football program for years.

dave 07-18-2012 09:10 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 1682424)
Which is my point. There were no NCAA infractions. If they do take action it'll be unprecedented.
Total lack of institutional control should more than cover it. I, for one, don't think that the NCAA rules book needs to specifically prohibit university coaches from raping little boys in football facility showers and covering it up.

Stephen 07-18-2012 09:11 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by E.J. (Post 1682428)
As is what they are dealing with.....
Not really. Unless you're willing to believe that no university has covered up criminal activity within their athletics department before. And if that's the case, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale...

E.J. 07-18-2012 09:11 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave (Post 1682434)
Total lack of institutional control should more than cover it. I, for one, don't think that the NCAA rules book needs to specifically prohibit university coaches from raping little boys in football facility showers and covering it up.
Pretty much sums it up............

Stephen 07-18-2012 09:11 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave (Post 1682434)
Total lack of institutional control should more than cover it. I, for one, don't think that the NCAA rules book needs to specifically prohibit university coaches from raping little boys in football facility showers and covering it up.
And that's what law enforcement is for.

Stephen 07-18-2012 09:13 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave (Post 1682432)
Involved? In what? The rapes and the coverups? Maybe not. But many were involved in the insane rallys/riots in support of JoePa when everyone in the country outside of Happy Valley was already either uneasy or queasy about him? Many (All?) of those you're hoping to shield from harm benefited from and/or were supported by the cover-up and lack of accountability in the institution and protection of the football program.

Penn State IS football to an awful lot of people - inside and outside that community. I would have no issue with a death penalty - or any other penalty that deprives Penn State of its football program for years.
So what you want is vengeance, not justice. Gotcha...

E.J. 07-18-2012 09:14 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 1682435)
Not really. Unless you're willing to believe that no university has covered up criminal activity within their athletics department before. And if that's the case, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale...

You have lost your mind......... If you don't think this is a different level of anything we have heard within an instititution.....again, we can just agree to disagree.... (I'm actually shaking my head is I type....unbelievable....)

Stephen 07-18-2012 09:18 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by E.J. (Post 1682439)
You have lost your mind......... If you don't think this is a different level of anything we have heard within an instititution.....again, we can just agree to disagree.... (I'm actually shaking my head is I type....unbelievable....)
I'm amazed you're able to type at all, what with the pitchfork in one hand and a torch in the other.

E.J. 07-18-2012 09:20 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
But, for the record, I think that if the NCAA found out that an institution was covering up major illegal activity within a sports program, bet your ass they'd step in....and I'd expect them to.

....and I think you'll find that they do in this instance as well.... Which is the exact reason PSU is trying to figure out how to get ahead of the curve as I type....

E.J. 07-18-2012 09:22 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 1682447)
I'm amazed you're able to type at all, what with the pitchfork in one hand and a torch in the other.
Pitchfork & torch.......:confused: What punishment have I ask for that you think is unreasonable?

Oh.....any..... See, that is where you and I are on different sides. I think the NCAA has to do something in this situation and you feel like they should do nothing.... But pitchfork and torch.....:r

King James 07-18-2012 09:23 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave (Post 1682432)
Involved? In what? The rapes and the coverups? Maybe not. But many were involved in the insane rallys/riots in support of JoePa when everyone in the country outside of Happy Valley was already either uneasy or queasy about him? Many (All?) of those you're hoping to shield from harm benefited from and/or were supported by the cover-up and lack of accountability in the institution and protection of the football program.

Penn State IS football to an awful lot of people - inside and outside that community. I would have no issue with a death penalty - or any other penalty that deprives Penn State of its football program for years.
You are suggesting that the community should be punished for supporting Paterno when the available evidence at that time was that Paterno reported the info about Sandusky to his superiors but didn't do more when he should have? There was no evidence at that point that he actively tried to cover it up.

Or you are suggesting that the entire Penn State community should now be punished because they benefitted from a program that covered up the heinous acts of Sandusky? Heinous acts that they in no way knew of.

Plus, none of this changes the fact that in order to issue the death penalty, there is supposed to be an actual violation of an NCAA rule.

I'm all for punishing the people involved. Take away the schools victories since 1998 so that Paterno is no longer the winningest coach, make his family pay back the 5 million retirement package, tear down the statute, make the university pay out their ass in civil court. I can't, however, support retroactively punishing the football program when all active parties are no longer there to suffer from the punishments.

King James 07-18-2012 09:24 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave (Post 1682434)
Total lack of institutional control should more than cover it. I, for one, don't think that the NCAA rules book needs to specifically prohibit university coaches from raping little boys in football facility showers and covering it up.
Again, total lack of institutional control only applies to the lack of control of following NCAA rules

E.J. 07-18-2012 09:26 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
But back to that post.... So Stephen, you'd agree that this is cover-up of criminal behavior(which is actually criminal in this case) on a level when have never heard of before, within a sports program/institution....or you think this stuff is happening with irregularity within the NCAA? I think the word we'll use....unprecedented.

jonumberone 07-18-2012 09:26 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave (Post 1682432)
Involved? In what? The rapes and the coverups? Maybe not. But many were involved in the insane rallys/riots in support of JoePa when everyone in the country outside of Happy Valley was already either uneasy or queasy about him? Many (All?) of those you're hoping to shield from harm benefited from and/or were supported by the cover-up and lack of accountability in the institution and protection of the football program.

Penn State IS football to an awful lot of people - inside and outside that community. I would have no issue with a death penalty - or any other penalty that deprives Penn State of its football program for years.
You're right, Dave.
I can't think of any other instances where college kids organized and rioted for a cause in which they didn't have all the facts,
and made rushes in judgement based upon what their friends were doing, and word of mouth around the campus. :rolleyes:

Let's run through some other scenarios

A coach is at home, get's drunk, and slaps his wife around.
A coach is involved in a deadly auto accident, in which he caused by speeding
A coach is arrested for DUI

Should any of these crimes cause a school to lose it's sports program? Why?

I understand that what happened is awful, and I get why people are upset, I just don't see where this is an NCAA issue.

Also, after the Cathedral, Capitol, Pyramid, institution, insert your own metaphor for power, is toppled, I don't see the point in pissing on the rubble!

E.J. 07-18-2012 09:31 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonumberone (Post 1682460)
A coach is at home, get's drunk, and slaps his wife around.
A coach is involved in a deadly auto accident, in which he caused by speeding
A coach is arrested for DUI

Should any of these crimes cause a school to lose it's sports program? Why?
Your metaphor is too far apart from what happened....

A coach is a serial killer for years and years and the administration covers it up.... Yea, the NCAA needs to do something....

ChicagoWhiteSox 07-18-2012 09:35 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Just a little confused here.. So the Penn State Football program that allowed the rape of young boys in Penn State showers didn't break any ncaa rules?

jonumberone 07-18-2012 09:38 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by E.J. (Post 1682463)
Your metaphor is too far apart from what happened....

A coach is a serial killer for years and years and the administration covers it up.... Yea, the NCAA needs to do something....
Why?
Assuming the Murders have come to light, as has the cover-up, where all involved in the crimes are being prosecuted by the law, Why does the NCAA need to do something?
If the NCAA acts who are they punishing?

To elaborate on your point.
If a Vice president of Goldman Sachs is a serial killer, and the CEO covers it up, does Goldman have to go out of business?
Should the S.E.C. get involved?
Or would the crime of murder and the cover-up be handled by the F.B.I. and the courts?

King James 07-18-2012 09:39 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoWhiteSox (Post 1682466)
Just a little confused here.. So the Penn State Football program that allowed the rape of young boys in Penn State showers didn't break any ncaa rules?
Breaking the law and breaking NCAA rules are two different things. So no, what Sandusky did, and what the university covered up, did not actually violate any NCAA rule.

If Sandusky violated NCAA rules and the university covered up those violations, then there would be a very strong case for lack of institutional control

ChicagoWhiteSox 07-18-2012 09:55 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by King James (Post 1682472)
Breaking the law and breaking NCAA rules are two different things. So no, what Sandusky did, and what the university covered up, did not actually violate any NCAA rule.

If Sandusky violated NCAA rules and the university covered up those violations, then there would be a very strong case for lack of institutional control
Ok I see. I don't follow any ncaa sports, so know nothing of what the ncaa is responsible for. It does makes sense to me though that if your Football program allows rape, maybe you shouldn't be allowed to play ncaa football:r

E.J. 07-18-2012 10:03 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonumberone (Post 1682469)
Why?
Assuming the Murders have come to light, as has the cover-up, where all involved in the crimes are being prosecuted by the law, Why does the NCAA need to do something?
If the NCAA acts who are they punishing?

To elaborate on your point.
If a Vice president of Goldman Sachs is a serial killer, and the CEO covers it up, does Goldman have to go out of business?
Should the S.E.C. get involved?
Or would the crime of murder and the cover-up be handled by the F.B.I. and the courts?
They are punishing the institution and athletic team for covering up crime within the athletic department/institution. Not only covering up crime, but committing crime at the same time. They do this to prevent dishonor to their program.

I think the NCAA needs to do something because they are who govern the institutions. The law is not going to charge the name/institution Penn State University with a crime, but IMO that name/institution let it happen, it needs to be addressed(I actually believe that will happen and again, why PSU is trying to get ahead of the curve here).

Why would the Southeastern Conference address anything with Goldman Sachs?;) I have to admit that I am ignorant as to the SEC and what they would do in that situation..... I cannot comment on that analogy....

Dom, are you a Penn State fan or just taking that stand?

King James 07-18-2012 10:08 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by E.J. (Post 1682491)

I think the NCAA needs to do something because they are who govern the institutions. The law is not going to charge the name/institution Penn State University with a crime, but IMO that name/institution let it happen, it needs to be addressed(I actually believe that will happen and again, why PSU is trying to get ahead of the curve here).
You better believe the law is going to charge Penn State University in civil court. They are going to get hammered in punitive damages. A university can be a party in a suit just like a company can.

And the NCAA only governs the institutions as far as the NCAA rules go.

jjirons69 07-18-2012 10:11 AM
Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?
 
After reading about all the stuff SMU did to get the death penalty handed to them, it seems very unlikely the NCAA will evoke it here. It seems you have to continually screw up even after you're caught once or twice.

SMU Death Pentalty

I seriously think if PS comes out and denies itself scholarships/bowls games/etc., this will please the NCAA and they will find just punishment. SMU tried it, but they were way beyond we'll go to bed without supper when they tried to right the ship. Seems everyone at SMU had a hand in the corruption and the NCAA had to clear the slate and start them over. PS's "corruption" is more localized and now cleared from the picture. PS is a MUCH bigger entity and the ramifications of the death penalty would/could also damage the NCAA's money making system (which they don't really want).


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