Is it me?
 

OK, before I go to far, I don't want this to degenerate into cigar bashing - that is not at all what this is about. It is simply inquisitive.

Now that I have your attention.

Is it me? Have my tastes changed? Is it the tastes of others?

I've had opportunity to try many, many, many cigars in my 30+ years of cigar smoking. Some I have liked! Some I have tolerated! Some I have tossed before the halfway mark! Some I have absolutely loved!

But now I have developed a new category. These are cigars that I see spoken of very fondly here, of which I have tried a few, but am really relucant to try any more of. Why? They don't have what I like to call the "wow" factor. To me, the "wow" factor is that something that sets a particular cigar apart which makes you part with the amount of $$ required to have another one.

In regard to some of the more popular, most talked about, and highly sought out cigars (at least here) I don't get it! There must be something I am missing.

I know, I know, I know... Smoke what you like, and enjoy it.

BUT...

I really want to fall in love with these too.

LPs seems to be getting a lot of love.
I have had a couple 52s and a couple 9s in various sizes. Not bad smokes, but I couldn't see spending them $$ they want for them to have another.
I even had a #9 Pig, supposedly an outstanding smoke. Ummm, at the halfway point I was completely underwhelmed. I'd like to try more LPs, I have 40 (the Lancero) sitting in my humidor waiting, I am hoping to absolutely love it. I would love to love the Feral Pigs, but I don't even want to order any.

Viajes are another brand that seems to be all the rage. I have had a few, from different lines and wasn't impressed. I even had a couple holiday blend and was looking for that "wow" factor to kick in. I must say, I have had a couple Skull & Bones that were very good, but I don't know that I'd run out and buy a box of them.

Some of the Tatuaje cigars have also left me baffled. I have some red Angeles, brown Noellas, Verocu #5s, Petite Cazadores Reservas, but most of the larger ring guage cigars of these lines, and the LEs, just don't seem to "wow" me either.

Then,... I had an El Rey del Mundo Robusto the other day while golfing, it made me stop, take a puff, pause and really savor it. It was astounding. There was richness and sweetness to it that was intriguing with hints of caramel, coffee, leather, cocoa, and it was constantly shifting and morphing through those flavors. And to many, it is a bland cigar.


So, is it my own taste buds?
Is there something I should be doing to get more out of these cigars?
Is it the moderm smoker is looking for something different than I am?

Thanks for your help.

Peace of the Lord be with you.

Re: Is it me?
 

I agree 100%. My experience is limited though and I was waiting to try a few more of the fad cigars before making a post exactly like this one. I don't want to bash things I have not had so I will stop here until I get my hands on the elusive Drew estates goodies.

Maybe my awesome glands just don't work like it used to.:sh

Re: Is it me?
 

Yes, it's most certainly you. ;)



I love just about all tats, but I am not a fan of LPs. One thing that I've noticed about smoking fuller bodied smokes is that it is good for me to keep milder "bland" smokes in the rotation. That's the great thing about cigars, they have something for just about every one of my moods.

Re: Is it me?
 

It's not you, it's........me.....that's how it goes right?

bishes


On a serious note, the hyped up cigars deliver for people who like the profiles of the flavors. I love Tats. I have yet to tango with one that I dislike.

I have an FFP waiting for me in my humi, if it's half as good as it's made out to be, I'll be in love!

It's all personal preference, although I think hype exposes a brand to more people, so more people know of it. Thus, more people love it

Re: Is it me?
 

I completely share your feelings too Todd. You are not alone on those points made. That being said..thanks goodness because I would rather not like those $10-$15 sticks than find out I really like em' and have to get a loan to buy em.
I'm sticking to my wow factor sticks.

Re: Is it me?
 

I see it completely different. A mild smoke can be just has complex as a full body smoke but it seems as of late, the more pepper and/or spice it packs, people equate it as a better the cigar. Granted I do enjoy a nice spicy cigar after a good meal but, for me, I find it much more rewarding smoking a cigar that makes you think about the profiles you are taking in and the cigar is not kicking you in the nuts with its power.

Thats the beauty of this hobby, not everyone enjoys the same cigar which adds to the discussion and makes life interesting! :tu

Re: Is it me?
 

I agree with you that milder smokes can be just as complex (I would much rather smoke a complex mild cigar over a full bodied kick you in the nuts cigar). I was just using the word "bland" because the good Rev. did so in his inital post.

Re: Is it me?
 

Sounds like Nicaraguan tobacco may not be your cup of tea. :sh

Re: Is it me?
 

I agree completely, as well.
I think it's generational, Todd. The stuff that's out there right now that's getting suction just isn't anything special. I can't speak to JDrew stuff because all though I've gathered some up and been gifted some, I haven't really given them a go.
It seems it doesn't take much to get a big "Wow" out of people these days. I think it started around the time Diesels were pushed down the sh1tchute. They were cheap, and right in the same line with what guys are willing to pay $13-$15 a stick for now. A decent, one-dimensional cigar.
We have a lot of guys here right now that are new to cigars, or new to "the new and improved" cigars. Riding that wave of excitement is fun. Eventually they run into Padron and Fuente and Litto and cc's, and it's a quick transformation into searching for tried and true sticks that are multi-dimensional, fascinating, and worth the coin.
Until we see the beginning, it's real tough to get to the end. It seems everyone tires of the hypesticks eventually because they become boring. Everything is the same. Once a guy runs into a really, really good cigar, that tends to become his obsession. Or at least it became mine.

My nc hypesticks this year were Short Story Maduro and Oliva V #4, all of which are still sitting and waiting until they're ready to smoke. They'll be incredible come summer or Fall. :tu

Re: Is it me?
 

I'm with you, I've been puffing for over 35 years and am still looking for that perfect cigar. ;)

Re: Is it me?
 

Our palate evolves, but it's not as linear a process as we'd like to envision; it also goes through phases.

For instance, I'm not a big chocolate lover; I can take it or leave it most times. But then, there are times when I suddenly crave it, and it tastes like heaven for a little while. Same with ice cream.

With cigars, you have to factor in that each cigar is constructed of leaves which should each fit a certain flavor profile in order to make a greater whole, but may vary individually, and sometimes a lot.

Also your mood, the condition of your taste buds at a given time, weather—all that and more combine to influence how a cigar tastes to you at the exact time when you smoke it.

And there are cigars you like, and those you simply don't. For example, Joyas have a fervent and loyal following, but I will never enjoy one no matter the circumstances; they simply aren't what I look for in a cigar. Maybe Liga isn't your cup of tea, either. No biggie.

Re: Is it me?
 

Which would suit you better, Joe?
A cigar like a LFD triple Ligero A, or Tat Noella, or Liga Undercrown that starts at it's flavor, and then stays at that exact same flavor for 2-4 hours
...or...
An '08 JJ maduro or Oliva blue band, or Padron Anni that starts as one thing that's incredibly good, then changes into another thing that's incredibly good, and changes again, then culminates into something that's so incredibly good that words can't describe it? Something that's totally made you lose track, or care about time?
That second one, that's a good cigar to me. :)

Re: Is it me?
 

I'll agree to some extent with ya Todd. I find myself really digging the stronger stuff, which Scott tells me is from chewing Copenhagen for 33+ years.

I love the Liga Privada #9 but cannot for the life of me get into the T-52s at all. Viaje stuff is hit and miss with me...I really love the earlier releases of the Skull N Bones, the newer releases just didn't do it for me. Now the Viaje Holiday Blend makes me flip my wig each time I smoke one. Tatuaje is another extreme hit and miss for me...I have loved very few and was left completely baffled more times than i'd care to admit.

While my palate is not anywhere near some of you guys on here, I know what I like. I will take a stick with pepper/spice any day of the week over a more complex/changing stick. That is just what I enjoy.

My "hypestick" this year was the Lou Rodriguez Edicion Reserva. This stick tickles me every time I light one up...in any vitola.

That's the great thing about this hobby...ever changing palates and flavors. I was gifted a Tatuaje Series P (early release) about 18 months ago. This is a stick that I would NEVER had tried and after I did...I LOVED IT!!! This is one of my go to "change of pace" sticks when I want something a lot lighter. The flavors on these are amazing.

I must also admit that I love the El Rey del Mundo Maduro Robusto...this stick is fantastic. Big sleeper stick IMHO. That's the weird thing, this stick goes against everything I stated above...no pepper, no spice...but damn smooth and very tasty.

Bottom line is that we all have different palates and get pleasure in sharing our experiences with fellow BOTL. :2

Re: Is it me?
 

I agree with you brother. My taste have changed since I have started. Cigars I smoked last year I dont care for today. There are a few that I didnt care for but now love them. I just figured it keeps this hobby from getting boring.

Re: Is it me?
 

I have a humidor full of cigars that I used to love, but now are meh. My tastes and palate have definitely changed over the short time I have been smoking.

Re: Is it me?
 

Scott, that Oliva blue silk band that you sent me was a freakin' revelation. Life-alteringly good. But it had 10 years on it; I wonder what I would have thought of that cigar if I had tasted ROTT...

I do love the Tat Noellas and all of the small gauges from PJ that I've tried; hated the red-band Havana VI; again, here you have circumstance injected to the equation: I was at one of my nephew's ball games and I had no other cigar, so my resentment of "being stuck" with that awful stick compounded my feelings.

Padron Annis are heaven to me, especially the maduros. The Undercrown...they're a conundrum. Smoke them ROTT and you'll likely be underwhelmed; but JD himself told me that waiting 30-45 days after you buy them makes a difference. And I'd love to have the wherewithal to put a number of them away for 1-5 years, tasting along the way and making notes to compare.

The LP-9 I had was superb; a UF-13 was also superb, a singular joy. I have a couple T-52s and MUWAT Baitfish waiting in the RTS humi. We passed a FFP around at the Blueface/Mr. Maduro herf last month and it was underwhelming, but I could see a lot of potential there.

I'll never like anything with "triple ligero" in the name, nor anything that advertises itself as "strong as balls." ;) Strength just isn't what I smoke cigars for, and pepper is a nice undertone in an otherwise complex cigar, but in the forefront I find it offensively obstructive. It gets in the way of anything else the cigar might have to offer.

The skill of a blender shows in a blend which allows many flavors to come through the smoke; nuanced, bold...mingled, separate—every flavor change is pure joy for me, like opening one present after another on Christmas. No flavor has to be "greater" than another, just so that all can have their moment. That to me is a perfect cigar; Punch Ninfas and PLPCs give me that...the HU Mag 50 ELs I smoked ROTT after their release too. And that Oliva. :ss:

Re: Is it me?
 

To finish my last post...

Conversely, anyone at all can just throw a bunch of ligero and medio-tiempo into a blend and call it good. I think of that as lazy blending; it demonstrates no art nor craft. It takes no skill nor imagination, because a cigar like that won't taste like anything except pepper, and it's just designed to deliver nicotine.

And while I don't begrudge anyone their taste, that's definitely not for me.

Re: Is it me?
 

It could be that a lot of the hyped up sticks are really very similar. Full bodied, pepper, cocoa, coffee, enough nicotine to kill a person. So if you don't like one you are unlikely to like the rest, especially if they aren't what you are used to smoking. That could just be my unrefined palate talking though.

Re: Is it me?
 

Love Nicaraguan tobacco. Oliva Vs are my favorite, my go to smoke. Love Tat Noellas, Petite Cazadore Reservas, 601 Blues, Cain Daytonas, Omar Ortez originals, and of course, most everything Padron.

To my tastes, I find the LPs and Viajes I have had to be very one-dimensional and bland. There is no excitement in them whatsoever. They might be strong (Cain's are strong), but there is no complexity to them, they lack anything that smacks of imagination. Like I said, they don't "wow" me.

Peace of the Lord be with you.

Re: Is it me?
 

My palette has changed so much, just in the last year alone. That's why I sell off those
Smokes that used to wow me. That's the great thing about this hobby. Always new smokes being made for our changing palettes.

Re: Is it me?
 

I didn't mean that question to be cigar specific, but you worked right through the confusion to the answer I guessed you'd give me.
I keep tons of cigars that take me on that trip, because that's what I like from a cigar. I get that from a PLpc, as well. You should try a Hoyo du Gourmet, you'd die twice, my friend. :)
I've not tried a Punch Ninfa, it's one of those cigars that's managed to elude me for lots of years. If I ever stumble across a box, I'll definately gather them up.
Punch RS 11's deliver the same kind of morphing, twisting, changing experience, and so do Old Henry maduros with a couple years.
There's not an Oliva that I've found worth smoking ROTT. They all need a year to air out, so far as I'm concerned. After 2-3 years, they get REAL good and they stay there. That blue band isn't an anomaly with Oliva, it's the rule. Their stuff ages fantastically.

Re: Is it me?
 

It's you!:D

Re: Is it me?
 

By the way Scott, MJ and I had the Short Story Maddies. I was incredibly underwhelmed by that one as well. Didn't do a doggone thing for me.

For the record, I love spice, love pepper, love a strong cigar. I have some JJ Maduros that are incredible. I love the DPG Black, especially the Perla.

Oh, and I thought the blue cloth banded Oliva I had was also disappointing.

Re: Is it me?
 

OK, I change my opinion. ITS JUST YOU!!!!

Re: Is it me?
 

I believe we can fix that. :ss:

And I haven't tried a Le Hoyo that I haven't liked, Scott. I have a box of '00 du Maires that I value like gold.

Re: Is it me?
 

I get bored easily. I love golfing, hate watching it. Love to play baseball, bored to death in the stands. I don't need a movie with lots of action, but it has to keep my interest.

Maybe this is all tied together?

Re: Is it me?
 

Of course, there could be another explanation with that one - it was just 1 cigar, and it was a bad one. Ask MJ to chime in here. There was a metallic tast to it, even set off my fillings (you know, like when you touch aluminum foil to a filling).

I remember having a problem with not liking that cigar. I love Oliva Vs, so this should have been right up my alley.

Of course, that's one cigar I'd be willing to take a bullet for the team and try again. :D

Peace of the Lord be with you.

Re: Is it me?
 

I'm much the same way about most of that. Maybe there is something to it.

Re: Is it me?
 

I'd hang on to them. I got kind of tired with Punch 2X Maduro Rothschilds, didn't do anything for me anymore. Let them sit about 6 years in the humidor, went to try one - almost finished the rest of the box. And nice thing about them, they hadn't changed a whole lot in the aging process.

Re: Is it me?
 

Oooo, I haven't tried one of those either. Can you fix me too? :noon :r

Re: Is it me?
 

Its crazy how a palate can be affected by stress, situation, and personal taste.

I don't like too much spice, I want to taste the tobacco. I've learned to stay away from too much ligero, and I've definitely gotten into cigars with less strength. But I absolutely adore the LP 9. I didn't care much for the T52, and I've had it in several sizes including the Flying Pig, so that was dissapointing. The Undercrown I found amazing. Then the next one was blah. Then the next one was decent. Now I do find somewhat boring, but it has tastes I enjoy. They're kind of like breakfast cereal. I may not want cheerios for dinner, but I can eat them every single morning without fail and never really get tired of them.

But it's not just you. I've really learned that "powerhouse" cigars are not really that good. They're like having food slathered in hot sauce, you can't really taste the food at all.

Re: Is it me?
 

Never tried one? I've never even heard of it before!

Re: Is it me?
 

I smoked one short story maddie. I chucked it. That's why mine are all sitting in the humi. They aren't ready.
I tried a V4. I chucked it. See a pattern here?
I have different batches of Oliva Blue bands. I think I know which one Joe's came from, but I have no idea what batch yours came from. I've also gathered a lot of singles along the way. I just don't know the line of the one you smoked.
I need to get you a paper blue from a proper box and a silk after I've checked these latest ones out. What I really need is a cigar secretary.

Re: Is it me?
 

I've eyeballed some fresh du maires, I know I'd like them. I can only guess how these du gourmet's would smooth out with time. Right now they're fantastic, but they're a bit wet and like to go out on me. I've thought that since I'm smoking mainly cc's I should bring down my big humi to 60%, I just haven't done it. I'm not excited about waiting a year till things straighten out from that big a change, ya know?
I think you and I should do a ninfa/blue band swap. I have the bold orange silk O's that John likes, too. I'll send you a pic...

Re: Is it me?
 

Had a V4 that was phenomenal ROTT. I have had 2 more since then that were excellent.

I cannot tell you which batch of blue bands it was. As I look back, I am not sure I can even tell you where it came from. I thought I had it recorded, but...

Re: Is it me?
 

I see we both need cigar secretaries. :lr
I've come across some blue silks that were so shrunk up that the bands literally fell right off. The best ones are uncelloed and have a bit of mold on them from years gone by.
I only have a couple boxes of V4's, if you see some more, let me know, will ya? I'd like to put at least one or two more boxes up.

Re: Is it me?
 

Yes, the band on this blue was very loose.

I saw some V4s the other day, but I just looked again and they are gone. They don't stick around very long.

Re: Is it me?
 

If I get to "keep an eye" on your sticks...I'll take the job Scott. :dr :dr :dr

Re: Is it me?
 

Notice whose cigars he wants to keep an eye on? Not mine! But yours. Guess he knows what's what. He knows that he could embezzle from your stash and hope to remain unnoticed. In my case, that wouldn't be so.

You going to let him call you feeble-minded like that?

Wow, Mac... Pretty rude!

Re: Is it me?
 

Yes, it IS you. But like you said in your famous quote, it's really all about you to begin with. Smoke what YOU
like. What turns one smoker on is not guaranteed to turn YOU ON. A well-known aircraft mechanic in Washington State was
overly kind to me and sent me a large selection of the Liga type stuff, a pig, a few various 9s, and some other similarly-
styled cigars. I didn't get it. They were strong but not necessarily interesting. Someone might get some flair
out of em, but I couldn't get past the power to find the taste. And maybe it wasn't even there. Maybe I WAS more
sophisticated after 20 years of cigar smoking. Maybe I had better taste buds than I thought....or much worse.
Tastes change. Embrace what you like and leave the rest to others.

Re: Is it me?
 

I've personally seen Scotts "stash" Todd. :D

Re: Is it me?
 

An exceptional brother. :D

Re: Is it me?
 

I've only had the Undercrown, No. 9, T52 and FFP. Of those, the Undercrown and the No. 9 are the only cigars I'm willing to pay for regularly. The FFP was very good, but too expensive. The T52 was average and not worth the cost. The Undercrown, while not as refined as the No. 9, is better than most cigars in its class. The No. 9 is just delicious all around.

I do agree with you that they aren't as complex as some cigars, but for me, the sheer deliciousness of the No. 9 and Undercrown make up for it. I can't afford to buy and smoke them often, but when I do, I feel like it was worth the money. It's not much different from a pricey special occasion meal at a classy restaurant.

Re: Is it me?
 

True dat! However, just look at what a wonderful conversation we got going here. Wasn't that cool!

I'd like to seriously think that my tastes have refined past the bold and sassy, in order that I now appreciate subtle nuances. I like my pepper in cigars and bold spiciness, but I want some complexity and subtle flavors to be present as well to keep my interest.

By the way, I am also one who likes my spicy food to really turn up the heat.

Interestingly, many pipe smokers show an interesting progression. (The following is painted in broad strokes and is just something I have noted with many pipe smokers I know. Remember, not all travel this progression and many ultimately enjoy all 5 of the "types" of tobacco I will describe)

1. They start out with Aromatics, very stong and bold tasting. Often, that taste is derived more from the flavorings which are applied to the base tobacco, than from the tobacco itself. And furthermore, oftentimes that tobacco is substandard since it really is just about the flavorings.

2. They move to English blends. Again, a very bold flavor is evident, most often derived from the presence of Latakia. It has a bold flavor derived from the smoked curing process this particular constituent tobacco endures.

3. Oriental or Oriental/English blends are next. Here the Latakia is either absent entirely or much reduced. Natural flavors of the constituent tobaccos predominate, but orientals have some strong aromas and slightly spicy flavors.

4a. Virginias are all natural, but come with the highest natural sugar content in them, they must be smoked slowly and the flavors are subtle and nuanced. These and Burleys which have the lowest natural sugar content, which are predominantly nutty, are often seen as that final step, where pipesters are smoking them for the subtle nuances derived from the tobaccos themselves.

4b. Virginias w/Perique and/or Burleys w/Perique or other light-handed additions of Latakia, Oriental, or even Virginias would also be classed here. Again, the flavors are subtle and nuances need to be savored by slow smoking.

Many of the flavors in 4a. or 4b. are very "mild" (I use that term loosely). They require a clean palate to taste them. Interestingly, many cigar smokers who take up the pipe never really appreciate them, looking for "more" flavor, more smoke.

Personally, Virginias and Virginias w/Perique are my favorites, although I like a good English and a "clean" Aromatic. I have never really appreciated Burleys, nor Orientals.

Peace of the Lord be with you.

Re: Is it me?
 

Like has been said in probably every post before mine, "different strokes, for different folks."

I can understand where you are coming from Todd. At times we share the same tastes and 100% agree on flavors and subtleties (anejos, padrons, and coronados for example) and others we disagree (illusiones).

Is it a novice vs. veteran issue? Is it an issue of taste buds? Is it because you've been smoking longer than I have been alive and are just stuck in a nostalgic rut?

It may be all of them. Personally I think the best part of cigar smoking is the variety. There is literally a cigar out there for everyone. So you don't like LPs enough to buy them all up? Fine, here's a Coronado Double Toro I know you love. (Wish I actually had one to give to you! ;) )

Cigars are hyped for many reasons. Whether it be due to reputation of the brand/manufacturer, a good marketing scheme, the the cigar itself is actually everything everyone says it is; the hype is often muddled.

Don't worry about "missing something". We all miss the flavors our tongues weren't meant to taste. As long as you give it a shot you've done your utmost for trying.

Anyway, I'm rambling now. In short: YES it is you, but don't sweat it. Life's too short to worry about it. :)

Shalom.

Re: Is it me?
 

I concur with what the good Reverend has stated. Both to the WOAM and the Blue Cloth Band. I seem to remember we had smoked another Blue Cloth band that was somewhat better, but nothing to write home about.

You're starting to sound like Moochburg over here.

That boy's a bad influence!

Re: Is it me?
 

Smoke what you like, like what you smoke.

Illusiones seemed to be loved by every Asylum member other than me. Same with Fuente. I don't let it bother me. I buy what I like. :tu

Re: Is it me?
 

You've been smoking long enough to remember the cigar boom. I remember Dominicans and Hondurans were all the rage. ERDM's/LGCs/Fuentes etc were highly regarded and high-priced. I even remember Puros Indios at my local shop going for 16 bucks each! The Nicaraguan cigars were the red-headed step-children of the bunch. Padrons were the only exception. There does seem to be a big steer in the direction of strength over complexity in cigars. I really enjoy a Tat or Viaje once in awhile but I can't get the Liga Privada to save my life. My tastes have changed to a point where I'm about ready to spend the summer pipe smoking vs cigars as they are all tasting the same to me. I'm sure we all go through stages. Mine tend to be extreme.


MCS

Re: Is it me?
 

The last T52 I smoked was pretty good but not 15 a stick great. I definitely prefer many less pricey sticks for a fraction of the cost. The Perdomo Noir is pretty much a mainstay smoke of mine and I really like the 5 Vegas A alphas alot. I've branched into some Padillas and for the money, great sticks. I got some 5 Vegas relic perfectos that are good smokes, too. The
LFD airbenders have earned my trust as well. The baccarats I used to like now are absent from my humi since I've branched out into more complex smokes. The best little cigar I've found is a chasedown between the Oliva V no. 4 and the Perdomo limitada cameroon.

Tastes change. The Brickhouses I used to love just sit in the humi. I have had no desire to pick it out and smoke it.

Re: Is it me?
 

Ah, yes. You have entered the holy of holies.

I was just teasing you both, I hope your understand?