CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

Saw it this morning. I am checking it out now.

http://www.prlog.org/11703241-cigar-...r-smokers.html

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

So this beta is just for testing right? Not really a purchase?

I will play for fun, but I don't like the format of these auctions. It's a sucker bet if you ask me.

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

Yeah it is just for testing...you won't be obligated to purchase (at least that is my understanding, which seems pretty accurate to the way it was explained).

Also, I have already had bugs with it where it keeps logging me out and asking me to sign up again. It became a pain so I stopped for a while...probably get back on tonight to try some more.

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

Looks like the beezid model?

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

Looked at it earlier...could not get past the "bullet sounds" as it annoyed me to no end.

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

+1 on that, than i saw where you could turn them off. My wallet does not need any other sites to beat it up so I'll be staying away from this one for now.

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

+2 the pop up was there and I could not turn off the sounds and watch the video so I said f it I will wait to see how it is later maybe

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

I don't see there being any "deals"

There was a box of VSG's that I wasted all 250 bids on. Of course it's a beta so everyone was just clicking, but I started to think about it.

When I finished my 250 bids, it was at $13.xx.

At 60cents per bid, FSS has made 1300*.06 = $780 in bids + what the box actually sells for. As a non-winning bidder, I spent 250*.6 = $150 to not get anything.

In the end, there's 1 happy person and tons and tons of unhappy people. In this case there's over 1299 unhappy people.

Morally, these penny auctions should be illegal. I feel sorry for the CS reps who are going to be getting complaints after spending bits here and there and never having anything to show for it.

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

Yeah, penny auctions are HUGELY profitable. Especially the other ones...they usually don't even have the actual merch. They just drop ship to the "winner". You'll often see iPads going for $100 which means that the company recieved $6000 for the bids, plus the $100 winning bid. $6100 for a $600 iPad is a VERY hefty profit margin.

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

+1 for these types of sites being illegal... Hopefully it's only a matter of time. They're TOTAL scams. Pure and simple scams.

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

You need to consider the "penny auctions" to be a gambling site...which it is. Similar to slot machines. Do I play slots/poker/blackjack? Yes I do. Do I do it expecting to win anything? NO. If you view it as entertainment that may pay out, then its fine. If you view it as a way to actually buy something, you will always lose.

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

I don't know how they got my email but I received an email from this place. I just tossed it in the trash.

By the way, the concept of this sucks.

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

Beezid gets hammered by computer programs trying to bid in the last few milliseconds before an auction closes. Beezid claims that they try to find and ban these users, but a clever programmer could make it very tough for them. And it's actually in the auction house's interest to let people game the system like this, as long as they can find suckers to continue to place meaningless bids.

So I'd be real careful before buying any cigarsniper bids. The "open beta" weekend provides a testing ground for anyone who wants to cheat, so you could very well be competing against computer programs when the site goes live.

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

Definitely a scam. 1.00 in bids is 100 bids = 60.00. so, if an item is up to 10.00, that's $600 they made!

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

Yup, I joined one of thyese penny sites and spent $100 until light dawned on Mr. Fog just what a rip-off it really was. Now I keep getting emails telling me how much they miss me and offering 20 free bids. Yup, I'm sure they do miss me, but not too much as PT Barnum knows.

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

+3

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

+1

I'm not sure what cigar website sold my email address to these people, but I wasn't too happy about it, and deleted the message.

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

It's good to see that so many people have seen these sites for what they are. You know there are still plenty of people who will funnel their money to them though.

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

What a joke this is. And people fall for this scam. Sad.

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

Capitalism at its finest I say.

If you put 30 sec of thought into it you realize what a waste of money it is, if you don't "a fool and his money are soon parted"

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

Not too difficult to figure out. The original press release was done by Famous. Just another marketing tool. :sh

Why CigarSniper is NOT a scam
 

There seems to be some confusion as to our motives and reasoning behind creating a site like CigarSniper.com. Now, we know there are penny auction sites out there whose sole purpose is to separate your hard earned money from your wallet without any other benefit than being somewhat entertained. This is not the case with Cigar Sniper.

We've tried to change the concept behind a penny auction to offer a tangible benefit to any one who decides to participate. I'm sure that the people who purchase from Famous on a regular basis understand that our everyday pricing offers a pretty good value, otherwise we probably wouldn't be in business for over 70 years. On Cigar Sniper we are offering the same pricing to anyone who uses a bid they paid for on any auction.

Let's say you normally go to Famous to buy a particular 5 pack that cost's you $30. It would be worthwhile for you to check and see if there is an auction running on that 5 pack at Sniper. If you spent $30 for 50 bids you have 50 opportunities during the course of that auction to receive that product at a discounted price. Actually, 60 chances because we give you 10 free promo bids with the $30 purchase.

If you use those 50 bids on that auction, you have reached the point where you have already paid for that product. All you need to do is input your shipping info through the Buy Now function and we send it to you. Now you may ask, how come I can't use "Free" bids towards the purchase price? Well they were Free and we'd quickly be under water if we let people purchase something for nothing, now wouldn't we?

Anyway, we created the BUY NOW function on this site so that no matter how many paid bids you use on an auction you still have the opportunity to pay the difference towards our everyday low price (same as Famous) and lose nothing. If you decide to purchase the product we'll also give you all of the free bids you used on that item to continue entertaining yourself on another auction.

Now we know this system isn't perfect. Different people are willing to take different levels of risk depending upon the reward. If you use 5 bids on a $200+ box of Ashton chances are that you won't want to cough up the rest for the box, but as adults we all decide whether or not to take that risk. If you wanted to purchase that box to begin with then you would have over 350 opportunities during the course of the auction to get it at a lower cost than you would have. If you didn't win using those 350 bids then you'd be getting it for what you originally expected to pay.

Everyday, people download video games on their iPhones, go to Disney World, or Vegas and pay to be entertained largely with nothing tangible to show for it. What you lose in Vegas, stays in Vegas.

Now we know this site may not appeal to everyone's tastes, but if you found that your experience was enjoyable then why would you not spend the same amount of money as you would at Famous for that product you wanted and be entertained for free?

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

Wow, they're selling theoretical pennies for real money; 60 actual cents each! :lr

Re: Why CigarSniper is NOT a scam
 

What kind of sadist is entertained unsuccessfully bidding on an item? Theoretically speaking, couldn't this same, "entertainment" be had at C-Bid for free? :sh

Re: Why CigarSniper is NOT a scam
 

Now that's a cool feature. Certainly better than what the other penny sites offer, which is, well, nothing. :tu

Re: Why CigarSniper is NOT a scam
 

Your ridiculous rationale trying desperately to explain why your site is somehow different than the other penny auction sites that rip off its customers has completely soured me to famous cigars (and I've purchased from you guys a number of times). Capitalism at its finest is also me never ordering off of famous' site again because of the BS that they tried to sell to the cigar community. Anyone who can't see this for the crap it is can feel free to donate their hard-earned money to Famous Cigars.

They say it, not me:r:bh:bh:bh:bh

Re: Why CigarSniper is NOT a scam
 

I think the point that Humberto was trying to get across was that if you were going to buy those cigars from Famous, you can buy some bids at cigarsniper instead, use the bids to try and get the cigars for less, maybe having a bit of fun in the process as some people enjoy these type of auctions, and, if you are unsuccessful at winning them in the auction, you can apply the money from all the bids you entered against the purchase price of the cigars, so you aren't out anything really. Basically, if you only bid on what you were going to buy anyway, you're gambling odds are quite good - you might win, and at worst, you'll break even and have a bit of entertainment in the process.

Also CBid is proxy bidding, so you just enter in your max bid and walk away, the software does the rest, from an excitement point of view, it's up there with watching paint dry. CigarSniper is live bidding, so you actually have some level of interaction with the other bidders, sure, it's not quite the same as being in the same room and having an auctioneer call bids, but it's certainly more interactive than the proxy bid system, and some people find this interaction enjoyable.

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

..Don't take a suckers bet...:2

Re: Why CigarSniper is NOT a scam
 

Say what you will, but at the end of the day, these things are nothing more than human Skinner boxes.

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

The "buy it now" feature actually "kills" the person's chance who's bidding with their "hard earned bids"! I think that aspect of it really Sucks *youknowwhat*!

There is a certain way to win these auctions, and win big, but its probably not what you think. Based on that realization i'll probably bid somewhere else and
not even bother with this site!

Re: Why CigarSniper is NOT a scam
 

Not really seeing that, but lets just say it is for a second, in which case it ultimately depends on the person. If one lacks the self control to limit themselves, then oh well. Hardly Famous's fault for that though.

Re: Why CigarSniper is NOT a scam
 

Not blaming them, just calling a spade a spade. The gaming & gambling industry has literally made tens of billions on this concept; if Famous wants their small piece of the pie who am I to argue?

Re: Why CigarSniper is NOT a scam
 

If you don't use the "Buy Now" feature before the auction ends, do you lose your bids, or can you opt to buy it with the remaining bids needed for the item?

If you choose to "Buy Now" on a single lot item, do the other people who were bidding lose their bids because the lot is no longer available, or is the item taken from another inventory?

Re: Why CigarSniper is NOT a scam
 

The 'Buy Now' feature is designed to be used only after the auction is over for losing bidders and only for 'paid bids' used. Free bids cannot be used for a buy now purchase but will be returned to you if you end up buying the item your were bidding on.

In the event you lose a bidding war on something we have no more inventory on, you will be given 'buy now' options for comparable items.

Re: Why CigarSniper is NOT a scam
 

Sounds like not a bad gig to me, so long as people go into it with the intention of possibly paying full price for the item.

Does the buy now price reflect the current price on FSS, or is it always MSRP? I guess what I'm wondering is, could you possibly pay more for an item that's on sale on FSS?

Edit: Also, can the bidding go over the FSS price? Or does it stop?

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

Initially I thought this was a real rape-job. I'm glad Humberto explained the buy it now function.
If a guy uses the site to try and get something for nothing, he's going to get nothing for something, which is exactly what an intelligent grown-up should expect. The lighter wallet might teach that person a valuable lesson.
If a guy uses the site wisely and has already set his mind on buying the cigars he's bidding on, he can't lose. Famous has always had fair, decent prices. They also have very good and personal customer service that stands head and shoulders above Cigars International.
It's simple to see where the "offset" money will come from. It's going to come from guys who are convinced they can get something for nothing, either motivated by greed or avarice. Or it's going to come from folks who are willing to pay a little money for a bit of gambling "thrill". If that guy enjoys losing his hard-earned money via gambling, then he's gotten exactly the value he was looking for. People like to lose money in lotteries, casinos, card games, whatever. I'm not personally a fan because I'd just as soon light my money on fire and warm my hands than throw it away at a casino, there's no entertainment value in that stuff for me (Thank God). I do understand it though. My wife loves to lose money at the casinos and slots. I play the lottery occasionally, and I love playing poker with the guys, It's fun.

The bottom line is that this thing is not set up as a skinner like most penny auctions. It's got a built in can't lose function with the buy it now option at auction's end.
Actually it has two built-in can't lose functions. Leave it alone and you can't lose a cent. That's what I plan to do, it'll be real easy. :tu

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

I don't understand why people jump to defend retailers that partake in this type of thing. I clearly understand that an intelligent person can utilize this service without much risk and can walk away without really any loss. The point is though is that they're trying to avoid talking about the fact that many people will "lose $100 before they see the light." Not because they're motivated by greed or avarice. They'll lose it because they didn't understand going into the auction how much money they stood to loose. Call them stupid if you will, I say that the rules of the penny auction game are rigged to take people's money away before they realize what they are getting themselves into. Call it cigar gambling and I'll hush up, call it anything else (an AUCTION? No.) and you're exploiting people by taking their hard earned money and giving them NOTHING.

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

Fine. It's cigar gambling.

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

I agree, this is a sham hands down.

So what that they added a consolation buy-it-now feature. They're not doing this because they feel sorry for the non-winning bidders. They're hoping they multiply their sales from a single auction from the people who were suckered in to begin with.

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

I see where you're coming from, Andrew. I just don't subscribe to the "people are being lead off a cliff by an evil giant" slant, or at least not so much. I believe in people taking responsibility for their own actions, and I don't accept ignorance as an excuse. It never worked for me. :D
Is it right for people to take advantage of people's ignorance? No.
Has it happened since the dawn of time? Yes.
Will it continue forever? Yes.
Do I choose to take advantage of people? Absolutely not.

Every lesson I have ever learned in my life has come at some expense, many straight through my wallet. I've never succumbed to this particular "evil", but I've submitted myself to countless others, and by doing so I learned valuable lessons. I'm employing one of those lessons regarding this auction model. That lesson says "Don't mess with it, you know better."
I think of these types of things as opportunities to learn. When I pray for patience, God doesn't just grant me patience. He grants me a trying situation where I can learn to exercise patience.
Here lies one of those situations where people can benefit and learn, even if it costs them money, and even if someone else benefits by taking it, and even if it's morally distasteful if not outright wrong. They'll get stung smart.

I think it's a crazy gamble for Famous, and why they'd even bother with something as gray-area as this, I have no idea. (Okay, I do have an idea. Money.) It can only serve to hurt their reputation, which it already has in lots of guy's eyes here, including my own.

To go one step further, I think it's important to allow these types of things to go on. It goes to protecting freedom and liberty. I have no desire for some greater good to watch over me and "protect" me by telling me what I can or can't do. I choose to reserve my right to not wear a helmet, give live birth to a walrus, not read the directions, lose hard-earned money gambling, get an STD from a toothless hooker, run with scissors, and stand under a piano that's hanging in the air.
In order to preserve my rights, I'm more than willing to accept an off-color cigar auction.

And yes, it's cigar gambling, plain and simple. Why they call any of the penny auctions "auctions" is beyond me. Probably the same reason they call free online poker "free online poker". ;)

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

First off, all the posts are making me confused. I have used Famous lots of times and still plan to do so. I am not on any sides and not trying to get caught up in the middles of this just trying to understand.

As Scott said, it does not appear that this site is set up to be the scam that other penny auction sites are. If you spend $60 in bids and don't win than the $60 of bids you spent can still go toward the buy it now price after the "auction" is over. Its not as though the $ spend on bids just goes to site and the bidder gets nothing. If this is incorrect that I appologize but that is my understadning from the above posts.

I am missing why this is so bad for the bidders? Yea you might have to pay MSRP or whatever the buy it now price is, but i can't tell you how many items on Cbid I see go for more than MSRP.

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

Great way to put it Scott. At this point, no one's gambled anything but FSS.

That post deserves a rep bump.

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

I understand everything you're saying. TBH I think if I respond anymore than we are getting dangerously close to a political discussion and I want to avoid that (In the interest of following the forum rules.) I think we both have stated our points to the extent that is necessary on this forum. I see this as something that is set up with the sole purpose of exploiting people, you see it as similar but state that it should be allowed in order to maintain our American freedoms. I'll choose to stop the discussion here in the interest of keeping the spirit of the forums intact (and choose to never order from Famous again.)

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

I agree. It's a joke. I tried this once on another site for electronics ... and I lost about $50 before I came to my senses.

Seriously ... it is nothing more than a scam to get your money.

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

Andrew, I don't think we're very far apart on this at all. There's not a point you've made that I disagree with. I'd love to continue the conversation by pm, if you like. Regardless whether we agree completely, I already respect and admire your thoughts on this.
Bottom line, I'd like to not see any of it happening, but I lump it in with all sorts of other business practices I'd like to see go away.
My guess is that once tried in court, penny auctions will be classed as gambling, as they should. Once that happens, that should be the end of it until...
That's where I have to stop before I wax politico. :D

Re: Why CigarSniper is NOT a scam
 

You shouldn't be auctioning items that you don't possess. :td "Buy Now" options on "comparable" items make it sound like a bait and switch. If you draw someone in with the expectation of a fair shot at winning a particular lot, they commit a sum of money and you don't even possess that lot; what does it sound like to you? :sh

Re: CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend
 

I look forward to someone here showing what a deal they got. I will not be that someone. Like many I just see the penny bid sites as a big waste of time and money. I appreciate that the retailer is trying to find some new ways to promote business but I think this particular practice is unethical. Sure seems to be alot of grey area in the specifics on where you can use your bids if you do not win a product. I like the idea of a live auction. But when I go to an auction I do not think I have ever been charged based on the amount of times I put my paddle up.

Re: Why CigarSniper is NOT a scam
 

Allow me to rephrase.. All items on the auction block are in our possession. Yet, if there is only one of them, any losing bidders for that lot will be offered something comparable to purchase.

Re: Why CigarSniper is NOT a scam
 

If a losing bidder were able to wait until "their" item is back in stock, a rain-check if you will, I think that would go a long way toward dispelling any appearance of impropriety.

Re: Why CigarSniper is NOT a scam
 

I spoke with the developers. We have not applied that logic to the current version of the site. But it will be considered for future versions. Thanks for the suggestion.