Cuban disappointment?
 

I was talking with a friend at my coffee house who used to smoke cigars. The topic came up about lifting sanctions against Cuba and allowing cubans to be sold legally here.
Personally, I think a lot of Americans, myself included, will be disappointed with the Cubans, as a lot of us are used to, and prefer, a full flavored, full bodied smoke. The few Cubans I have had did not impress me so much. I'd rather smoke a nice full flavored Nicaraguan / blended cigar any day! I could be wrong, but the Cubans I have had were medium flavor at best and, while tasty, just didn't kick in for me.
Am I making generalizations? Are there full flavored Cubans out there, maybe maduros, that I am unaware of?
Actually, I kind of hope Americans take to them, it may lower the price of my favoriets (right now Patron 62 maduros, but that changes regularly...).
Anyone else have anything to add to this? Just curious...

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

Oops, Padron 64...d'oh!

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

Your assumption that most everyone prefers full-flavored non-Cuban cigars is way off base.
I could just as easily say a lot of us think the full-flavored powerhouses cater to the "strong so it must be good" mentality.
Personally, I prefer a medium strength, complex smoke that Cuban cigars seem to deliver consistently.

My :2 and worth as much.

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

I agree I prefer a nice medium strength Cuban.

Now Americans probably would be disappointed with Cuba the country as it's not quite up to the standards Americans are use to. I loved it there. But not having eggs at your hotel one day and no cheese the next has it's drawbacks...

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

I have always loved a full flavor cigar. But there are times when I want something with a different profile. I have really enjoyed the CC's that I have had. I for one would like to experience more of them, so lifting the embargo would be a good thing in my opinion.

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

Thanks for the input! I figured I may be a bit off base here, so figured I'd put it to you guys. I sometimes think because I like something, most others will too. Totally wrong, I know! I mean, I love lima beans and brussel sprouts too...lol. Anyways, no matter my preference in smokes, I too think it would be a good thing to get the cigars to market, as a larger variety is nothing but a good thing for the industry.

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

Yes a larger verity for sure but there are allot of great stogies out there and I'd personally liked to start smoking other countries finest. This is the largest reason I'm going to the Seattle Cigar expo. I wanna find what else is out there. I know Cuban brands inside and out but...

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

In my opinion, lifting the embargo will only allow more choice. I don't think that the overwhelming majority will suddenly switch to CCs, although I'm sure that many will want to try the formerly forbidden fruit. The main influence I would expect to see is that the NCs will lower their price since CCs tend to be a lower price for a comparable quality cigar. I think that would be a good thing.

In the end, it is important to know what you like and like what you smoke. That's the only way to look at it, IMO.

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

I agree plus the prices for the primo brands could hopefully drop also.

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

Although I enjoy a full bodied smoke once or twice a week, I am pretty much done with the peppery ligero bombs which are currently the rage. I prefer depth and complexity in an every day smoke which is why I smoke about 75/25 Cuban cigars. :2

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

I don't know why people are under the false impression that just because a cigar is Cuban it MUST be better than every other cigar that isn't. It seems to me many people believe all Cuban Cigars will always blown their mind.

There is definitely a preference, and there are good and bad Cuban cigars. I think because everyone here in the U.S cannot get them regularly they talk them up to being so much better than the rest.

I'm with Peter, my preference is the medium bodied complex smoke. I'm not too much for those full bodied smokes. If you are though, Cubans are not for you.

Also I don't see why most people think if the embargo were to lift it would be the greatest thing in the world. The prices would skyrocket with taxes. No thanks.

This to me is a classic example of people in the U.S thinking things are better elsewhere without knowing anything about it. Also not knowing how good we currently have it.

:2 (worth much less)

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

As many people here are fond of saying "Smoke what you like, like what you smoke". If you like the fuller-bodied NC's then more power to you -- enjoy them!

I like a variety of cigars. Sometimes I smoke a Padron because that is what I want. Sometimes I smoke a Cohiba because that is what I want.

I think the best thing for us all is a variety so that everyone has choices.

I'm not sure that the prices of NC's will drop when the embargo is lifted. CC's are less expensive for us right now because there are no taxes on them. Once the government starts taxing CC's the same as NC's the prices of the CC's will go up. I can still hope that the prices of the NC's will go down as the competition increases (more variety of cigars means more competition, which would be a good thing).

Just my :2

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

Beating the dead horse here...."Like what you smoke, smoke what you like".

For me, that's about 95% Cuban. But I have really enjoyed some NCs this year, including Esencias, Illusiones, Cain Daytona, some Viaje. It's all about the enjoyment, not what anyone else thinks is better or worse.

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

having never smoked a cuban cigar http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/hsugh.gif, I'll just say that while some cuban cigars maybe better then cigars from other countries that's not to say that all cubans are better then all other cigars. any country can put out a good cigar and any country can put out a bad one.

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

Has anyone thought about an increase in fakes and a decrease in quality of cigars coming from The Island?? I only hope that we do not open the flood gates....

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

I have never had a good cigar made in Mexico.

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

I have thought about this a little bit. What I think would happen, should the embargo go away, is that at first Cubans will become very expensive due to the new indulgent American demand. If Cuba doesn't drop its quality to make more then I will be surprised. That would probably last several years.

The second thing to happen would be a slowly rising blended market. Alot of NCs are not puros, but are blends of this and that from all over. With Cuban leaf allowed, in 10 years or so after the lift, blends with Cuban leaf will show up. These will probably be very popular, but probably not very good at first because blenders will take almost any crap from Cuba just so they can label their premiums as Cuban blend.

After the blended market lessens and levels out, the real great blends will rise to the top and there will be a revolution of cigars with the best of all leaf from the best of all areas of the world. Imagine Dominican/Nic fillers with that gorgeous silky Cuban wrapper that makes them look so distinct. Or super-smooth Cuban fillers with a toothy Nic oscuro wrapper. This will probably take another decade to get itself together and stable.

All in all, I'm fine with the embargo. Although in 20 years post-embargo I predict the best cigars the world has ever known, I will be too old and properly enjoy them and the wait while the market stretches and contracts around the new supply and new demand will not make me enjoy my hobby any more than I enjoy it now. Very selfishly, I say leave well-enough alone.

--bob

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

Cuba does not allow raw leaf exports today. Were the embargo to drop in the near term, I could only imagine they would be all the more adamant about this policy.

Why do so many people imagine raw Cuban leaf suddenly becoming available? Its unavailability has no direct relation to the US embargo.

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

Have I smoked as many Cubans as some of the guys here, hell no. But I have had my fair share of Cuban cigars and I prefer a Nicaraguan just about any day of the week over a Cuban. And I'm not talking about a kick you in the head strong cigar either. But of course that's just me, doesn't make it right or wrong.

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

If the sanctions are lifted anyone buying them would be dissapointed with the build quality as we all are from time to time, but the taste, mystique and Cuban persona will win out and there will be a shortage like never before, causing even worse quality and steep prices for several years until things even out.
:2

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

I agree with Triumph the insult comic dog, the major makers SPEAK of this new blend possibility when the embargo
drops, but I believe this would only tighten Havana's resolve to keep island tobacco on the island. Of course, you can
now get boxes, bands, seals, holograms and cigars there on the black market, so I imagine the leaf will escape, too.
BUT will the manufacturers be able to state that the blends now include CT if the CT was gotten illegally?

I smoke CCs because I absolutely do not prefer my nostrils to be singed by one-note NC cigars. I will smoke a Padron
that's about it. At least to enjoy. I have been gifted some of the top o the line NCs lately by members here and
while I was appreciative, naturally, I was not impressed by what I have apparently been missing all these years.

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

This is not true. Custom rolled abound.

Years ago, and they may still be available, Spain, Germany and/or Canada produced cigars that were made of cuban tobacco.

I know of at least one non-cuban manufacturer who has bales and bales of cuban tobacco in his warehouse.

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

Let the $hi+ storm ensue:r

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

Yes Cubans are a disappointment. :gary

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

**** storm here or the industry? I understand why is it so in the industry, that's why I didn't name the manufacturer.

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

In my personal opinion, I would love to see the travel restriction lifted. Cuba has some of the most beautiful beaches, great culture, great people and food. I would love to travel there.

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

You'll find full bodied, strong CC's if you look, I have. I had trouble finding cc stuff I like for a long, long time, because I enjoy nic puros and dominican puros.
I didn't necessarily get a ton of help from the guys because what was strong to them was pretty tame to me. Eventually I found lots of wideass spicy stuff I really enjoy. :tu

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

The strongest CC I've ever smoked was a Monte Sublime...made me dizzy and the back of my head tingled. Sailchaser can attest to this as well. :D

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

They do not "abound" in the sense described in this thread (ie. major manufacturers making commercially-marketed blends). There is a very small number of manufacturers who have been granted exception and offer Cuban leaf in a non-Habanos product, commercially identified as such.

We'll talk again when this manufacturer becomes able to acquire new harvest leaf and identify it in the market as Cuban tobacco without facing the legal retaliation of Habanos, SA.

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

+100000000000

I'm with Bob on this one. I don't really enjoy having my mouth steam rolled by a super full bodied cigar and don't fit into the 'Americans only like super full bodied cigars' mold. Mold? That's plume!!!

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

The only thing that would happen by lifting the embargo on Cuban cigars is that QUALITY would be killed by QUANTITY. Then you also have to factor in SUPPLY & DEMAND. That would then lead to a small exclusive list of distributors and/or shops that would carry them. The price would not drop if anything it would up. :2

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

Good point N2 GOLD. it also begs the question if they can produce enough given the US market is SO huge. Quality would decline I'm sure.

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

Yeah let's not worry about authenticity of cigars:gary

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

Every once in a while, I have to laugh that it's come to this. I remember before the first boom when the 'Americans', Macanudo in hand, would ask me if I thought they would like Cubans. "Be prepared- they're a lot stronger than the cigars you smoke", I'd have to respond. It's amazing how far 'Americans' have come. -(P

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

If 70 or 80% of Cubans are complex and medium-strength, and cost the same as NCs, I can see myself buying some. But even now, the amount of NC cigars from which to choose is staggering. I certainly can't keep up, and I have 4-500 premium cigars.

I smoked 5 Cuban Montecristos and wasn't impressed. That's it; just that 5. They were medium-strength while I prefer full; but strength doesn't get it for me in the end. What a really value is taste and complexity. They didn't have it.

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

The only take-away here is that you don't care for the Montecristos. That should not mean that all CC's are "unimpressive". As with NC's (or anything) you just need to find what you like... The experimentation can be fun!

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

I wouldn't even take that much from it. I think he just got some lame Montecristos (there are plenty out there). My favorite Montecristos are the definition of complexity, so I would warn against writing off the marca (let alone CCs as a class!) on the basis of a literal handful of unimpressive sticks.

:2

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

Well put. Within a marca there are MANY variations on taste/strength, some of which you may enjoy. On top of production smokes there are LE's/RE's which add even more variation.

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

What years were these Montecristos you smoked?

If they were under say 3 years old that could be a good reason for the lack of complexity and enjoyment.

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

Yes.. Let's not forget the Rule of 3's:tf

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

You can say the same thing about Cuban smokers who only smoke one or two "premium" NC and declared them as one dimensional, too strong and/or nicotine bomb. There are far too many non cuban cigars out there that will rival, if not exceed cuban cigars in terms of quality and consistency*, flavor and complexity**.

Regardless of where the tobacco was planted, if you look hard enough, you can find something that you will enjoy or be disappointed with.

*NC use to be so much better with these but Habanos is getting better the last 5 years or so

**Cuban cigars use to be the king in this area but all you need to do is try some of the new J Fuego, Oliva, Fuente, La Flor Dominicana and Pepin to change your mind.

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

For me, and I know many others too, I've smoked many NC's. I still do smoke many NC's. After a fairly large sample (I say fairly large because some old farts here have been smoking cigars for 20+ years:D) I have to say NC's don't even come CLOSE to the complexity and flavors as CC's. Not only that, but I can't get past the harshness most, not all, NC's have. It's just my two cents. My opinion. Nothing more. But I can say that I have not smoked just 1 or 2, or even 100 NC's and have written them off based on those cigars. I've smoked many NC's. (and I still do smoke NC's, I enjoy some NC's)

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

So you are saying Pepins aren't full bodied nicotine bombs? :confused:

I've smoked MOST of the premium NC's and there's no compare to a good CC, say a Cohiba Lancero. I would also pit smokes like the Montecristo Sublime and H. Upmann Mag 48 to any NC EL and for me they win every time.

I've had Oliva, Pepin, Fuente and LFD and I have to disagree. Fuentes are always OKAY for me, I wouldn't put them down but I wouldn't pay for them either.

For me Pepins are just full body pepper bombs, I cannot get any flavors out of those. Not that it's a bad thing but I wouldn't call them complex at all.

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

I really just like smoking good cigars. I don't care where they come from. There are outstanding cigars in both NC and CC. But pitting the 2 against each other is apples and oranges. Show me an NC that tastes like a CC. I sure haven't found one. MY palate prefers CC's. Could part of that be psychological because of the difficulty in obtaining? Maybe. Maybe it appeals to my inner pirate.

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

Honestly, I've smoked amazing NC's. Padrons is just a friggin legend, and I've had really great cigars from them. Aged Opus can be actually very, very good. But for me, it's not a fair fight when a regular production cc can blow my mind. Not even touching aged cc's, some RE's, EL's, Reserve, Books, customs, ect. Not a fair fight at ALL:r:r

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

The lifting of the embargo would have no impact on better access to pre 1991 Dunhills or Davidoffs so I dont care. :r

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

:r:r:r
True statement. Although, I'm sure someone well set up shop claiming "pre 1990 Dunhills and Davis" if the embargo is lifted. Then there's a big mess of whats real and what's not, and the market gets flooded, and things just get bad:r

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

That, my friend, is the bottom line. I just like good cigars. :tu

Re: Cuban disappointment?
 

Agreed! :tu

I once had a Cueto - does that count?
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