Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

Sam just wrote on FB that his new cigar debut has been put on hold due to legal reasons (Oliva?). Also he's been barred from IPCPR due to legal reasons. I was really looking forward to his newest creation. Hope everything works out for you Sam! Best of luck.

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

I think I read that Oliva sued him to enforce a do not compete clause in his contract with them.

Edit: Yup, here it is. Oliva is claiming Sam is under a five-year non-compete agreement.

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

I hope it can be resolved without getting too nasty in the courts. Sam is a talented guy.

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

Yep. I knew about the legal stuff, but ig uess now his line won't be coming out anytime soon. Hopefully it all works out. I've seen pics of the cigar and the band, it looks nice.

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

I'm no expert, but as far as my amateur analysis goes, if a court is already preventing Sam from releasing his line and attending ICPCR then things don't look good for him. That smells like a preliminary injunction, which would mean that Oliva was able to persuade a judge that it has a good chance of prevailing in the overall lawsuit to enforce the agreement. That would mean that the only significant issue might wind up being whether five years is an appropriate length of time.

Again, this is all just my amateur reading of the few facts as we have them.

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

Wow! 5 years is a hell of a length of time for a non-compete clause. I hope everything is able to be worked out in an amicable fashion.

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

On the surface it certainly seems like the split with Oliva may not have been amicable. Sam may have been asked to leave under less than ideal circumstances for him and now Oliva is showing that perhaps they are less than happy with Sam trying to show them up with a new brand of hype stemming from the notariety of Oliva making him the face of the NuB and Cain lines. :hm

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

That's really unfortunate since I think highly of both Sam and Oliva. Nice folk on either side...unfortunate to see them at odds.

However, as much as this is a brotherhood to us, I know this is a business for them. Contracts are contracts, although it seems odd that Sam would go ahead with a new cigar line if he knew he had a standing non-compete contract with Oliva.

I'm sure there is more to this story than we know.

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

My thought too Brian. It IS a weird move for the outsiders :/

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

This strikes me as the strangest part of this conflict, because Sam probably (I can't be sure because I'm not familiar with the specifics of Florida law) could have gone to a court to get a ruling as to the enforceability of the non-compete clause before investing resources into starting his new company. Maybe he thought he was in safe territory, outside of the clause?

If we're looking for a silver lining here, at least this means that any cigars he's already had made will likely be well aged before he can sell them!

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

Although 5 years will take them well beyond The Rule of 3s. ;)

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

Oh you're right! Petition to limit Sam's DNC to no more than three years!!

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

Reasonable...I'm sure it will hold up in court :D lol

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

i don't get a warm fuzzy feeling from anyone trying to stop someone else from making a living. when you're knowledge and experience is in one area, i don't see how you can limit a person from using that to provide for his family

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

non compete clauses are fairly standard in many industries especially when their is a significant investment made by the company into an individual (as in this case)

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

While it isn't something I like, it's not an uncommon business practice to have a non-compete clause when an employee leaves a company. I can't say it's not a dick move, but it's not necessarily a surprise either.

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

Oliva put a lot of time and money into the creating, promoting and distributing the NuB and Cain line and had the foresight to make someone like Sam the face of it. It seems Sam thought he was going to able to immediately transfer the success given to him by Oliva to his own company. Apparently Oliva had different ideas and knew this when they put the non-compete clause in his contract. If he had left on good terms, would they allow him to compete immediately? :hm

Also remember that Sam was going to need another large cigar company to make, promote and distribute his new line. Again, Oliva probably doesn't want to allow him to transfer the image/success they created for him to another 'competitor' in the industry. Not knowing much about competition amongst the large companies, it may be to prevent him from helping another company or it may be out of spite based on the nature of the split from Oliva. :sh

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

Im disappointed in this delay but hopefully everything works out.

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

Although I understand the lawsuit and with the information I have Oliva is right to sue Sam, I think the timing is aweful and will not only hurt Sam but also Oliva as they are 'the bad guys' now in a lot of comments I read online.

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

Typically NC's don't hold up too well in court. The last one I remember was an exec. leaving Microsoft for Google. MSFT tried to sue but got no where. I am not sure with the case of Sam though because it is very direct competition, also I would not be surprised if his new cigar was very similar to the Cain and NUB cigars he already made.

I would like to put my self on the top of the list for guys to receive all those cigars that are just going to be sitting in a warehouse somewhere for an indefinite amount of time.

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

:tu

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

Assuming it's valid, it's the latter option: 2015.

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

The fact that Oliva was able to get an injunction means that they were already able to persuade a judge that they have a good chance (legalese = "substantial likelihood") of succeeding in their overall suit to completely enforce the agreement. That's not a guarantee that Oliva will win, but it's a strong indicator.

Also, Sam's Debut line was directly matching up with, at least to some degree, Studio Tobac's NUB Plus plans: the announced Debut vitolas were 5x60, 7x60, and a 7x52 figurado.

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

This was annouced a little while back. Looks like Torano Cigars was/is going to distribute Sam's new cigars.

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

So did Sam actually create the blends for NUB and Cain lines?

I am thinking this is where his problems lie. If his three sizes are the same as the nub plus sizes then Olivia would have a very good case.
Posted via Mobile Device

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

Wow... Thats bad... Hopefully they can settel it down in a good term...

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

there's a good way to do this and then there's the way that oliva did it. they could have let sam go to rtda and then settle this for a good portion of his profits for the next 4.5 years and then none of us would be having this discussion

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

I knew something had to happen. I didn't see how he was going to just be able to come out with his own line without some sort of agreement with Oliva.

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

No.

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

As a completely objective observer who has never smoked or had any interest in this guy's cigars, I have to agree. Is Oliva truly concerned that Sam Leccia is going to put a dent in their bottom line?

On the other hand, NC clauses are standard for most employment contracts, but 5 years? That's crazy and he probably should not have agreed to it in the first place.

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

Likely not. But remember, Oliva created NUB and Cain and to some extent the image of Sam and he likely didn't leave in an admirable way. It may be purely out of spite by Oliva for Sam thinking he was larger than life when he left. Its all speculation, but they likely wouldn't be trying to blackball him had he left under good terms. :hm

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

This is crazy, I have a feeling it may hurt Oliva and help Sam

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

No. Particularly if Sam has to wait 5 years to work in the industry, by the time he can re-enter the market place the mood of the industry may have changed and not crave the 'rock-and-roll'/'bad boy image' that seems to be so popular of late.

Oliva is one of the most respected/consistent/affordable/well-made/highly rated cigars across the board and Studio Tabac seems to be just another step in the right direction for them. :2

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

yes

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

no

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

At the same time it's not like these sizes are not becoming the norm among cigar manufacturers. As much as some us agree that they will never be our go to sizes these sized sticks do sell very well. I know at my local the larger RGs always sell out first.

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

Nub Plus?!

:r :r :r

That's about the funniest idea I've heard since the original Nub!

"Look guys... this little chunk right here is the best part, so we're only going to give you that. Oh, and we're also going to give you all of this other part attached to it. You know, like all the other cigars have."

Which is it, Oliva? "Sweet spot" or not?

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

If the issue is a non-compete agreement/contract generally you have to show that there is a likelihood of irreparable harm/injury if the preliminary injunction is not granted.

If the case makes it to trial the judge reviews the agreement using a test typically developed under the case law of that state (common law). There are a number of factors that are considered. Geographic scope, length of time, norms within the industry, and public policy are some factors that are considered. It varies from state to state depending on how the case law developed within that state.

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

The biggest positive I can see for Mr. Leccia is that the non-compete covenant could be considered unenforceable if the duration is ruled to be unreasonable or overly broad. And let's face it, 5 years as well as restrictions on a national level could be deemed an unreasonable restriction on Mr. Leccia's ability to earn a living. Logically, I could see the judge scraping the non-compete clause in this case.

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

On a related issue, and this goes back to what George was saying about state common law, if this goes to trial and the five year duration is deemed too long, then it will come down to whether Florida's common law strikes the clause completely or whether it rewrites it to be enforceable. However, as with most cases, Sam and Oliva will likely reach an agreement and this won't ever make it to trial anyways.

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

Non-compete is ALWAYS signed by BOTH parties. Since Leccia had no beef with the duration of the clause when he WILLINGLY signed it I can't imagine a judge now vacating it. If he signed the agreement in bad faith, as now it seems, then he should not be complaining. Besides, if there is a 5 year non-compete he DEFINITELY got a serious chunk of money up front, thus his ability "to make a living" is a dubious claim. Look up sales of Williams-Selyem and Kosta Brown wineries, just a couple of very visible examples, much longer non-compete clauses (10 years) and all enforceable without sellers claiming "duress".

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

maybe?

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

No.

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

There are many cases of non-compete covenants being deemed unenforceable because of the unreasonable duration even though both parties signed the agreement. Most revolve around the issue of whether it unreasonably restricts the persons ability to make living. Many factors obviously come into focus on these types of cases, such as the range and scope of the restrictions, the type of work itself and whether a new venture would have a negative effect on the company if trade secrets were utilized. This is just to name a few. Not every NCC or CNC is open and shut simply for the fact that both parties signed the agreement. And seeing as how each one is different, the duration also doesn't definitely mean Leccia got a "chunk of money" up front. :2

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

definitely, i've been reading more than a few "i'll never buy another oliva cigar ever" posts. now is that internet dick swinging, maybe, but i'm sure that more than a few actually mean it. before this oliva was just another small cigar maker now, to some, they're the big bad corporation trying to stop a man from earning a living. There will be blowback from this and it's silly to think there won't be

Re: Sam Leccia's Debut on hold
 

Crazy stuff! I am curious as to how this is going to play out.