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-   -   Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's? (http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=47323)

Bad Finger 07-10-2011 12:59 PM
Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Just thought I'd ask as I was wondering this this morning. Now, I'm not talking about suppliers or importers, but I'm talking about individual smokers.

What is the fine for CC's? Maybe our brothers in blue here can tell us what the code is and what they do if they find them (other than lose them somehow on the way to the station...hehehee).

Ogre 07-10-2011 01:01 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Not that I am aware of, but a fine of $250 per stick can be imposed. That's on top of the money lost from the order.

Bad Finger 07-10-2011 01:04 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
So has anyone ever been fined?

Ogre 07-10-2011 01:06 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
I don't know.

NCRadioMan 07-10-2011 01:13 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Never heard of anyone arrested and the fine can depend on how much you bought.

EDIT: From poker's links below, definitely arrests from re-sales inside the states but from anyone ordering from a vendor, I have never heard of it.

Quote:
With civil penalty releases completed for 2010, only one transaction for the unauthorized purchase of Cuban cigars over the Internet was levied, back in March. The transaction took place in late 2004 or early 2005 and the individual cited paid a fine of $525. That was it for the entire year.

The one fine equaled the 2009 total, where only a single purchaser - again in late 2004 or early 2005 - was hit with a penalty of $1,175.

By contrast, OFAC issued 27 penalties in 2008 for a total of $39,763.08, nearly double the 14 penalties issued in 2007 (for $20,330.70).
http://www.cigarcyclopedia.com/news-...cigars-in-2010

poker 07-10-2011 01:17 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/08/07/ny...gar-sales.html
http://www.redorbit.com/news/odditie...son/index.html

Tyler 07-10-2011 01:39 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Old but still valid:
http://articles.latimes.com/1997-04-...1_cuban-cigars

Department of Homeland Security:
http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/cl...ban_cigars.xml

Brief quote from their website:

Quote:
It is also illegal for U.S. persons to buy, sell, trade, or otherwise engage in transactions involving illegally-imported Cuban cigars. The penalties for doing so include, in addition to confiscation of the cigars, civil fines of up to $55,000 per violation and in appropriate cases, criminal prosecution which may result in higher fines and/or imprisonment.

Bad Finger 07-10-2011 02:07 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
So from what I take from those links is that unless you are intending to profit from contraband, the feds aren't overly concerned with individual consumption.

dwoodward 07-10-2011 02:18 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
From what I understand, having CC's on you for personal consumption is fine. If you intent to sell them, that's a huge no no. I have no idea on the punishment but I am sure you would be fine if you just had one with you and were smoking it. I doubt most police would have a clue the difference between a CC and NC anyway.

That's just my 2cents. :2

icehog3 07-10-2011 02:22 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Police don't enforce the embargo. Federal agencies do.

poker 07-10-2011 02:24 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Finger (Post 1331207)
So from what I take from those links is that unless you are intending to profit from contraband, the feds aren't overly concerned with individual consumption.
Probably true but I would hate to be the one they wanted to set an example with.

Drez 07-10-2011 03:42 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icehog3 (Post 1331222)
Police don't enforce the embargo. Federal agencies do.
+1 if i stop a guy and he has a box of CC on the passenger seat i could care less if they are real or where he got them.

hell i might ask him is hes a member of CA :lr:lr:lr

Zeuceone 07-10-2011 03:54 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
The police always let you go with a warning but they consficate the "evidence".

Dunkel 07-10-2011 03:56 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Yeah right Frank. You'd confiscate them and "let him off with a warning". LOL

Great minds, huh Zuece? LOL

icehog3 07-10-2011 04:05 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeuceone (Post 1331274)
The police always let you go with a warning but they consficate the "evidence".
Not a chance. :td

Drez 07-10-2011 04:26 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Lol that would be sweet Doug and G but I like my job so I'll just get me own box hahaha

Plus not to many people driving around with a box of boli or party's on there passenger seats hahaha:r

kydsid 07-10-2011 04:49 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icehog3 (Post 1331222)
Police don't enforce the embargo. Federal agencies do.
Agency. Only one has authority to enforce the embargo. ;)

kydsid 07-10-2011 04:52 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoodward (Post 1331219)
From what I understand, having CC's on you for personal consumption is fine.


From the standpoint of the law that is incorrect.

pektel 07-10-2011 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drez (Post 1331301)

Plus not to many people driving around with a box of boli or party's on there passenger seats hahaha:r
Ya know, a while ago I actually stopped halfway home to put a box of partagas shorts in the trunk that up until then were sitting on the passenger seat lol.
Posted via Mobile Device

Bad Finger 07-10-2011 06:00 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drez (Post 1331301)
Lol that would be sweet Doug and G but I like my job so I'll just get me own box hahaha

Plus not to many people driving around with a box of boli or party's on there passenger seats hahaha:r
Gotta keep an eye out for those Maybachs. I hear they have built in humis. ;)

Drez 07-10-2011 06:20 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Finger (Post 1331356)
Gotta keep an eye out for those Maybachs. I hear they have built in humis. ;)
Is that so...... :r:r

Old Sailor 07-10-2011 06:24 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
I refuse to answer.....brings back a bad memory with customs!:r:r

sheeper 07-10-2011 08:13 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
actually there are "legal" cubans. A cuban living in the US who goes to cuba to visit family (and yes....they can and do)....can actually bring back a number of cubans for their own consumption. that's why i have cuban friends.

Sherlockholms 07-10-2011 08:17 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunkel (Post 1331276)
Yeah right Frank. You'd confiscate them and "let him off with a warning". LOL

Great minds, huh Zuece? LOL
THIS :tu lol

Tyler 07-10-2011 08:48 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheeper (Post 1331480)
actually there are "legal" cubans. A cuban living in the US who goes to cuba to visit family (and yes....they can and do)....can actually bring back a number of cubans for their own consumption. that's why i have cuban friends.
If you read the link I posted from the Department of Homeland Security, any US citizen cleared to visit Cuba is allowed to bring back $100 worth of cigars. This is not alot though and I don't know if they go by buying price or MSRP.

icehog3 07-10-2011 10:06 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheeper (Post 1331480)
actually there are "legal" cubans. A cuban living in the US who goes to cuba to visit family (and yes....they can and do)....can actually bring back a number of cubans for their own consumption. that's why i have cuban friends.
If they give them to you, that's not "their own consumption". ;)

bobarian 07-11-2011 12:13 AM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Its amazing how much speculation us being provided here by those who have dont have a clue.

The only federal agency who has any enforcement powers in regards to the Trading with Enemies Act is The office of Customs and Border Protection. CBP has no power to levy fines on contraband. All fines are issued by the OFAC which is part of an entitrly different agency. Local law enforcement agencies usually do not enforce federal laws unless as part of a intergovernmental task force.

The single case cited by Kelly is the only known instance of an actual arrest and conviction. There are also instances of fines being issued by OFAC several years ago based upon financial records acquired as the result of a bankruptcy case overseas.
Posted via Mobile Device

Silound 07-11-2011 01:51 AM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobarian (Post 1331731)
Its amazing how much speculation us being provided here by those who have dont have a clue.

The only federal agency who has any enforcement powers in regards to the Trading with Enemies Act is The office of Customs and Border Protection. CBP has no power to levy fines on contraband. All fines are issued by the OFAC which is part of an entitrly different agency. Local law enforcement agencies usually do not enforce federal laws unless as part of a intergovernmental task force.

The single case cited by Kelly is the only known instance of an actual arrest and conviction. There are also instances of fines being issued by OFAC several years ago based upon financial records acquired as the result of a bankruptcy case overseas.
Posted via Mobile Device
Today, ICE has complete authority over any cases involving contraband cigars. That being said, this is the federal government we're talking about here. If there isn't at least 50 years of bureaucratic crap obfuscating everything, it's not worth enforcing :)

sheeper 07-11-2011 07:18 AM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
the US Postal Service has jurisdiction if sending/receiving CC via US mail. Typically they will confiscate though I am not aware of any recent prosecutions.

And re my earlier post, those people cleared to visit cuba bring back cigars for their own consumption. That essentially means they cannot "sell" them. They can share them with friends and family. Hence i have adopted several cubans.

kydsid 07-11-2011 07:31 AM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallbright (Post 1331515)
If you read the link I posted from the Department of Homeland Security, any US citizen cleared to visit Cuba is allowed to bring back $100 worth of cigars. This is not alot though and I don't know if they go by buying price or MSRP.

Incorrect. That allowance was removed in 2004. Even your link states there is a total prohibition.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bobarian (Post 1331731)
Its amazing how much speculation us being provided here by those who have dont have a clue.

The only federal agency who has any enforcement powers in regards to the Trading with Enemies Act is The office of Customs and Border Protection. CBP has no power to levy fines on contraband. All fines are issued by the OFAC which is part of an entitrly different agency. Local law enforcement agencies usually do not enforce federal laws unless as part of a intergovernmental task force.

The single case cited by Kelly is the only known instance of an actual arrest and conviction. There are also instances of fines being issued by OFAC several years ago based upon financial records acquired as the result of a bankruptcy case overseas.
Posted via Mobile Device

Bob, not trying to jump on your back but when you post about how there is so much incorrect information in this thread an then you post incorrect information it doesn't do any good.

OFAC, an agency of the US Treasury is charged with the authority to regulate TwEA. ICE is the only agency with direct enforcement authority within the US over TwEA items. CBP enforces customs regulations that include through seperate authority the ability to seize contraband. They can issue fines and penalties for contraband. They cannot however issue a penalty for a violation of TwEA because that is OFACs primary purpose. However you can face OFAC violations and violations under Customs law for importation of items in violation of TwEA.

There have been many more arrests and convictions for violations of TwEA. Just to point it out but Kelly's links show two alone, not one. And you almost are implying that the only OFAC fines that have gone out are those which resulted from information in a case years ago.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Silound (Post 1331803)
Today, ICE has complete authority over any cases involving contraband cigars. That being said, this is the federal government we're talking about here. If there isn't at least 50 years of bureaucratic crap obfuscating everything, it's not worth enforcing :)

Incorrect as far as the totallity of the statement. ICE has authority over contaband cigars imported into the US. They would not have primary authority over fake cigars made in the US, ie still contraband for other reasons. Also they do not have complete authority of cigars that might violate the TwEA, again falling to OFAC. Then to add to that should either submit a case to the US Attorney's office the AUSA can add charges under any law. Of course this gets even more confused by the fact that ICE is one of the unilateral Federal law enforcement agencies, ie those agencies that can enforce all Federal Law (FBI, ICE, DEA, USMS, USS).

kydsid 07-11-2011 07:35 AM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheeper (Post 1331968)
the US Postal Service has jurisdiction if sending/receiving CC via US mail. Typically they will confiscate though I am not aware of any recent prosecutions.

And re my earlier post, those people cleared to visit cuba bring back cigars for their own consumption. That essentially means they cannot "sell" them. They can share them with friends and family. Hence i have adopted several cubans.

Sending cigars in the US mail is not a violation of Postal regulations. Without a search warrant the package cannot be searched, even if damaged. Under the correct situation however when discovered they could detain and turn over products that may be in violation of other Federal Law to the appropriate agency, in this case ICE.

Read my earlier post. They can be cleared to visit Cuba. But what they are doing is in violation of the law. Even when the exemption existed for them to share with you would have been a violation, albeit a violation no one would pursue.

sheeper 07-11-2011 11:13 AM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
the US Postal Service has indeed confiscated packages of cuban cigars from a couple of my friends. Instead of a box of cigars they get a postcard stating that their package was confiscated and gives a process where they can file a claim. Of course the claim would be an admission of a crime so noone i know has tried. To be fair, of the hundreds of cigars these guys have ordered over the years, this has only happened a couple of times.

LasciviousXXX 07-11-2011 11:23 AM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Paul, I think what he is saying is that the USPS is not the agency that is confiscating packages and sending letters :2

icehog3 07-11-2011 02:25 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Lots of poor information in this thread, mixed in with the factual. :2

357 07-11-2011 02:57 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
The most unbelieveable part of the current policy...

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-cen...ts/ccigar2.pdf

Quote:
The question is often asked whether United States citizens
or permanent resident aliens of the United States may
legally purchase Cuban origin goods, including tobacco and
alcohol products, in a third country for personal use
outside the United States. The answer is no. The
Regulations prohibit persons subject to the jurisdiction of
the United States from purchasing, transporting, importing,
or otherwise dealing in or engaging in any transactions
with respect to any merchandise outside the United States
if such merchandise (1) is of Cuban origin; or (2) is or
2
has been located in or transported from or through Cuba; or
(3) is made or derived in whole or in part of any article
which is the growth, produce or manufacture of Cuba. Thus,
in the case of cigars, the prohibition extends to cigars
manufactured in Cuba and sold in a third country and to
cigars manufactured in a third country from tobacco grown
in Cuba.
This means, in theory, that the U.S. government could potentially charge a U.S. citizen with a crime for smoking a Cuban cigar in Canada; where they have no legal jurisdiction. Unreal.

poker 07-11-2011 03:25 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
So, to sum up the answers and responses for the OP, I would venture to say yes someone has been arrested before for CC's.

cmitch 07-11-2011 04:25 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
A friend of mine ignored 2 letters from 2 seized packages and was fined on the 3rd offense. Needless to say, he no longer orders them.

Beagleone 07-12-2011 10:39 AM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Finger (Post 1331139)
So has anyone ever been fined?
A person I know locally, who is a high end collector and lives in area, was fined $18,000 for a rather large order he placed a couple of years ago. The CC were seized in LA, and ICE began the investigation. His fine would have been less, but since he was already caught once before, they imposed a much stiffer penalty.

jesseboston81 07-15-2011 12:42 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icehog3 (Post 1332331)
Lots of poor information in this thread, mixed in with the factual. :2
One thing I can clear up:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kydsid (Post 1331974)
Sending cigars in the US mail is not a violation of Postal regulations. Without a search warrant the package cannot be searched, even if damaged.
This applies to domestic mail only. International mail is subject to CBP's authority to engage in warrantless searches of nearly all international mail being sent to a US address, see 19 C.F.R. 145.2.

Noodles 07-15-2011 02:38 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheeper (Post 1331480)
actually there are "legal" cubans. A cuban living in the US who goes to cuba to visit family (and yes....they can and do)....can actually bring back a number of cubans for their own consumption. that's why i have cuban friends.
A Cuban living in the US is the only "legal" Cuban there is ... and preembargoes.

US Citizens and Permanent Residents cannot own or smoke a post Embargo cuban cigar legally, anywhere.

hotreds 07-15-2011 03:06 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Depends what you do with the credit cards!

icehog3 07-15-2011 03:47 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
I think arresting the manufacturers of Gurkhas would be more appropriate.

jesseboston81 07-15-2011 03:57 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icehog3 (Post 1337495)
I think arresting the manufacturers of Gurkhas would be more appropriate.
I'm sure you're just saying that because it would cause your vast collection to greatly increase in value! :r

pektel 07-15-2011 03:59 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Zing!
Posted via Mobile Device

icehog3 07-15-2011 04:12 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesseboston81 (Post 1337511)
I'm sure you're just saying that because it would cause your vast collection to greatly increase in value! :r
If 6 is vast! :r

1 from my Dad, and 5 for the PPPP at Shack Herf VII.

hotreds 07-15-2011 04:44 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
A-ha! You like 'em so much you even kept the PPPP sticks! The secret is out, peeps!

icehog3 07-15-2011 09:40 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotreds (Post 1337554)
A-ha! You like 'em so much you even kept the PPPP sticks! The secret is out, peeps!
You twist my words like Chubby Checker, Hugh. "r

Bill86 07-15-2011 09:41 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icehog3 (Post 1337495)
I think arresting the manufacturers of Gurkhas would be more appropriate.
:lr

This.

:tu

Noodles 07-18-2011 02:44 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icehog3 (Post 1337495)
I think arresting the manufacturers of Gurkhas would be more appropriate.
Like ... :r

Angry_Pirate 08-07-2011 09:47 PM
Re: Has anyone ever been arrested for CC's?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by noodles (Post 1341281)
like ... :r
haha!!


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