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I need some computer building geek help, please.
I have to build a new computer for my office. My last build was from around 05, and she's done me good.
What I'll be doing is photoediting, maybe some gaming (and I say that knowing I never will play anything unless I go back to some old titles), possible some light videoediting. Mainly I'll need opengl support for some CAD-ish stuff as related to designing wood projects. I need at least 5.1 for my music. I need AT LEAST 3 MONITOR SUPPORT with and option to expand if I so chose, up to six monitors. (Up to six is not even really necessary, but 3 is an absolute. I'd like to add a fourth at minimum). I would like to use AMD AM3 4 or 6 core on an ASUS AM3 mobo with ATI video cards. (I am an asus/amd fanboi. I've had huge success with their stuff for lots of years.) I do not need cutting edge screamer anything, but I would like my mobo and cpu to provide a little future flexibility. I like to have lots of storage capacity, so room for 4 sata hdd's is a must. 6 or more would even be better. I'd like a HUGE tower that provides tons of room to move air. I like to run two dvd burners, so two large bays is enough, although a few extra would be great. Oh, I need a good gaggle of usb ports, too. I can't think of anything else offhand. Anything you guys can suggest will help. It'll get me headed in the right direction and help me start getting a parts list together. Thanks You!!! :D Any suggestions on parts would be awesome, |
Re: I need some computer building geek help, please.
For a case you might look into the CM stacker (cooler master) it's a big SoB with 4 usb ports on the front another 4 or so on the back. Very large case, all metal too. http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=14
Speakers Logitech Z-5500 are very nice. I like logitech products. http://reviews.logitech.com/7061/224...ws/reviews.htm Monitors I'd go samsung with however large you need them to be I like the 16:10 widescreen. Processor I use a AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition, you could go with the 6 core version. Probably get 8-12 gigs of RAM, that ones up to you It depends on how much gaming and whatnot you are going to do but right now I run an Nvidia GeForce 9800 GT (one of my weaker pieces of hard ware) but it will still run every game that is out now on near MAX - MAX settings. So if you are looking to save some coin this is where I would do it. I would get a solid state hard drive (the largest you can afford) and then 2 regular 1 TB or 2 TB hard drives for space. Again the SSD will only be your windows drive with all your programs, so don't feel the need to get an insanely large SSD but don't get a 50 gig either. Get whatever will hold everything you need + 25% or so for future expansion. |
Re: I need some computer building geek help, please.
Bill, I carted a Coolermaster 840. It meets my needs and it's real expandable, plus it supports dual psu's which is perfect.
Thanks for recommending coolermaster, that's what I'm using right now and never thought of it. I already have a Denon receiver with Klipsch 5.1 surround speakers, so that's good. I just need decent onboard sound. I already have 3-19" Samsung monitors. I may add one more. In a land of dreams I'd add three more, but it'll never happen. One more is reasonable and it'd be nice if I can match the other 3. I had the 965 6-core carted already, this is kinda getting scary now. :D I carted the Asus M4A88TD-V EVO/USB3 AM3 board. I'm not at all sure it'd got enough options, or if it'll handle the 6 cores. If you have any other ASUS recommendations (or anyone else does), I'd love to take a look. I'd like to go ATI on the video cards, and I sure don't need nearly that much wee-yoo. I'm thinking 4 monitor support in the $150-200 range for each card? I haven't really looked, but you gave me a good starting point. I need a memory and psu recommendation, too. SSD HDD's are out of the question. I'm not gaming, and to waste money on the speed is silly. I make every one of my drives redundant. I'm currently running 3TB with 3TB worth of backup. The drives are 1 for 1, each hdd has a backup hdd. I'll continue that. I may or may not rape my current system. I may let in run and use it for a media server. My mind isn't made up yet. I'll likely just rape it for the parts and toss the rest to save money. I can serve media from my new rig, right? Thanks for all the help, brother. Talking to you really has the wheels turning. :tu |
Re: I need some computer building geek help, please.
I should have said I had the 965 quad core carted. I went and carted the six core now. I'm trying to make my wish list public. I gotta go get Nikki to help me do that, I think.
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I used to get teased at work for having two monitors but once people see how nice it is they get jealous. I do CAD work for integrated circuits and four would be awesome, but it took some convincing just to get two. Posted via Mobile Device |
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Re: I need some computer building geek help, please.
I don't know if this will work, but I made my parts list public so I can show you guys what I picked so far. Some things are duplicates till I decide which part to go with.
Here's the parts list. |
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Re: I need some computer building geek help, please.
the link leads to newegg, but it asks for log on info.
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Re: I need some computer building geek help, please.
I got a new crappy Gateway (yea, they are still around) laptop for super cheap at Best Buy. I didn't know, at the time that the audio system was so crappy. I picked up some Philips SPA7210/17 Multimedia Speakers from Overstock for 43 bucks because they had some decent reviews. Don't know if this is here nor there, but if nothing else, here's another bump! :D
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Re: I need some computer building geek help, please.
holy crap, yeah that is sick... that would be a nice gaming machine... wish i lived close enough to help you with the build, i use to love building machines, now i have laptop, i aint going to even try building them...lol
good luck i want to see pics of that up and running... |
Re: I need some computer building geek help, please.
Sounds like a pretty massive box there Scott. I guess the bottom line is to get the most for the money in your budget.
Have you checked prices with other places like Tiger Direct? |
Re: I need some computer building geek help, please.
I haven't checked Tiger Direct, I never really cared for them. I should check mwave, though. They can usually whip newegg's ass pretty good on some stuff.
The mobo and six core are pretty future-proof, I was thinking. Antec and corsair stuff lasts forever. That case has some sick cooling, so maybe it'll keep that ASUS mobo from frying. It's the weak link, I think. But as far as motherboards go, I have the best luck with them. What's the deal on the eco green hdd's? Do they just shut off all the time, or something like that? I wasn't planning to use them as my boot and boot backup, just storage. So it's not an issue, just wondering. I suppose I wanted to make sure I didn't have something selected that doesn't make sense, ya know? The 5570 was just plain cheap, and I needed a video card to compliment my onboard graphics to give me 4 monitor support. I'll check some prices. If you guys can think of anything else I should add/replace, please let me know your thoughts. (I even looked at bluray burning, it isn't ready for prime-time yet. I hate to buy first gen burners, they suck. It might be a good idea though before they get all drm'd.) |
Re: I need some computer building geek help, please.
pricewatch.com lists dozens of other site's prices, it can help save some money.
If you're going with Win 7, I would recommend Pro. It offers Windows Virtual PC as a freebie, and gives you a free XP Pro Virtual Machine. It can be handy for legacy apps, or when you need to do testing/etc. Also, Home edition cannot authenticate to a domain, so if you're using this in a work environment, I would highly recommend Pro x64 rather than Home Premium. The hardware looks pretty nice. I would suggest running your disks in RAID 1. It is faster than a stand alone drive or RAID 5. Plus, it does provide a mirror copy of your data for some level of redundancy. You lose 50% of the total capacity you buy, but it's worth the speed and reliability in the long run. The math of RAID 1 is pretty simple. If you need 2 TB, buy two 2 TB drives. Just my geeky :2 |
Re: I need some computer building geek help, please.
I've also heard (never tried it mind you) that folks are doing clean installs with just the Windows 7 Pro Upgrade disk instead of the full program disk without issue.
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Re: I need some computer building geek help, please.
I will go see if anyone has a coa available for pro or ultimate at Anandtech.
I hate to make the move from xp, but at this point, I guess I have no choice. |
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The lack of drivers made it useless to me, but it sure was purty. :D Brilliant idea on pinning the .exe file across partitions, Walt. I'd have never thought of that in a million years, Thank You!!! I have no idea what virtual machine is, or how I'd use it to my advantage. I'll definately look it up and see why I want it. (That's not entirely true. I recognize it and know I used it, but I'm currently clueless and I need my brain jogged.) I don't do a lot with my computer anymore since I retired. Not like I did a few years ago, anyhow. Lisa does, and she's excited for me to stay ahead of the curve for her. She's very savvy herself, but she doesn't do as much as she used to, either. She's not going to be doing the IT work for her firm anymore, either. If I'll get off my ass and apply myself, there's no end to what we can do together, so I suppose I should get on the ball. A decent machine and getting more familiar with 7 is as good a place to start as any, cause I'm REAL rusty. :D After this, I want to build, set up and host a server, just for learning's sake. It's a must for Lisa's work, and something I should have learned years ago. |
Re: I need some computer building geek help, please.
What do you want to host off of the server? Build looks pretty good so far. How many monitors do you currently use?
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Memory, honestly what I did was get 4 gigs of the "mid price" ram that was needed for my MoBo. I've never had "bad ram". Although prices are very reasonable for 8gig-12 gig. I just don't find it currently necessary for my needs. However If I was buying new right now I would go 8gigs of the "mid priced ram". You'll get the most out of that. For an OS I use Windows 7 Ultimate x64. I really like it, I hated vista and Xp was getting a bit old :r I don't run an SSD on my gaming computer, however I find the loading speed of high memory windows 7 programs to load up much faster. If you need that sort of thing. You will really notice an improvement. However if you don't care/need it then not running an SSD would save you some coin. I run one on the Media center PC (aka my blu ray player windows 7 media center PC). Cut loading times by like 75%, so it was worth it. Glad to be of help Scott, good luck with your new PC. Sounds like you'll have a very kick ass rig :tu |
Re: I need some computer building geek help, please.
Scott,
I would recommend getting a SSD just for your OS and CAD and other editing programs and use ordinary HDD for storage. From what Bill said i also recommend a 1000watt power supply, corsair produces very good PSU's. For video card i recommend a workstation card. Here's a good one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814133258 Its nice for rendering and you dont have to deal with priority crap you get with two cards. It supports up to 4 monitors. For Memory I recommend the GSKILL Ripjaws. They work perfectly with the 6cores and come in pairs of 4gb totaling 8gb per pair. Get atleast 8gb or up. You're gonna need a lot of memory for CAD and video editing and its gonna help alot on multi tasking. Hope this helps and good luck! :D |
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Re: I need some computer building geek help, please.
Avoid the dual boot and use XP as a VM. Dual boot is outdated and not useful as it is one OS at a time.
Maximize the RAM. At the end of life cycle on a PC the RAM is a weak link. If you have a back drive and routine, I would avoid RAID and spend of faster HDD or better video card. Do a clean install of Win7 with Ghosting your drive at various build points and you can use Ghost as your back up routine too. Go for the biggest monitors you can possibly use. Scrolling time and window count add up to a lot of saved time if looked over a week, month or year. Serious time savings. |
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Gonna need your final decision & pictures! Good Luck |
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This box holds dual psu's. I don't think you guys caught that. I already have an Antec Neo that I can add to this new psu for a total of around 1500 watts.
I'm still not sold on SSD. I don't know how big they get, but I'm guessing "not nearly big enough to hold all my program files". I'll take a look and see if the ssd's are doable, though. :tu |
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Nor am I. Who cares if the OS boots a few seconds quicker? Desktop's are rarely shut off. I think there's other areas to spend money on instead. Go for the round cables instead of ribbon cables inside. The cooling potential is better |
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That case I picked has absolutely badass cooling, I'm very happy with it. My desktop is on 24/7/365 unless the power goes out. It'd reboot itself but I still have a snag in my boot.ini that thinks I still have windows 7 on a partition and it goes to it first and finds nothing, etc. I've never taken time to take the hook out. That's how lazy I am. :D I just checked and I have 33.5 gigs of program files. That's all cleaned up, and it's still 33.5 gb. I'm not gonna bottleneck my system or make my system a nuisance by being forced to put program files on another partition, etc. It makes no sense. If I was just playing games all day, it might be worthwhile, but I never even owned any scsi stuff or raptor stuff because I have an extra second a day for things to load. :) I did have a buddy that spent all the money for Matrox video cards and scsi, and watched his system performance. When it worked, which wasn't often, it really screamed. He could render video in half the time I could. I was okay with turning it on and going to bed, though. lol |
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RAID 1 is faster then a stand alone drive regardless what type of drives your're using. Plus if one dies, you lose no data, and won't miss a beat. There is no recovery process, you just replace the failed drive at your lesiure. Hard drives are the bottleneck of almost all computers; desktops, laptops, or servers. SSD are a neat way to help remove that bottleneck however, they have some serious limitations. Most are limited to the number of writes. While the numbers may sounds large, these are not "File, Save" writes, but writes from say the pagefile or temporary directories. Those add up VERY fast. I would not recommend SSDs for the type of system you're building. First, Ghost is not free. Yes you can use it to capture images, but it is not a good backup/restore tool. If you want an image of how your PC was before you started using it (aka recovery image), then yes ghost can be handy. It is usually used by desktop techs for deploying large numbers of PCs with the same configuration very quickly. It is NOT a good tool for backing up user data on a regular basis. CAD files are rather large. With RAID 1, you are protected from simple drive failures. You are not protected from malicious software that could delete/corrupt files, human error, or a miriad of other things. To back up your data on a regular basis can be costly. If you have a high-speed internet connection you may want to consider Mozy or Carbonite. Carbonite offers secure backups of unlimited amounts of data for $59/year. Hard to argue with that. Mozy offers something similar. However, if you don't have a very good internet connection, it could take a while for those files to synch up depending on how much data you have. Barracuda offers a disk appliance (that you keep at your site) you can back data up to. It then replicates that data to two datacenters (owned/operated by Barracuda). One is on the West Coast and the other on the East Coast. You can restore data locally very quickly using the local disk appliance. If you lose the site (fire, flood, etc) you can restore from the remote datacenters. They do this for a small up front cost plus a monthly fee. What ever way you go, make sure to safeguard your data. The majority of businesses that are forced to try and recover a primary site end up filing chapter 7. Don't be one of them. |
Re: I need some computer building geek help, please.
Mike, I should probably clear up the CAD thing. I think I said CAD-like earlier.
What I'll be doing is 3d model rendering for items to be made on a carvewright machine. It's basically a cnc device for the woodshop. I don't think the files will be all that huge. I use Acronis and do constant incremental backups. I don't generally make .tib files, I like to back up all the files, verbatim, with no compression. That way if one disc fritzes, I can just pick up where I left off. I don't have to stop and go fetch a new hdd, etc. I'm also not bound by having to have equally sized hdd's. Those things are real problems in small town USA where I used to live. Here, near Cleveland, things are more readily available, but I still simply don't need or want the added limitations that RAID puts on me. I used it long ago, and ultimately walked away for the reasons I mentioned. The speed isn't necessary, and I've made really good habit of constantly backing up. Most people don't do that. I've had to learn it, and I don't ever want to lose it. :) I will admit that the instantaneous backup that raid 1 offers is very enticing. It even makes good sense. I'll continue to carefully consider it. If we ever start using our own server, I'll make it redundant and keep one offsite. I'd far rather be in control of my own fate than sending files up to a company who could become insolvent fifteen minutes ago. :D I can always back up to a disc and put the data in a firesafe, too. That stuff is all manageable, and I'm not scared. But that's only because I've always backed everything up by hand for so long that it's just second nature. Cripes, I can't even make a long post on a messageboard without copying it before I press the "post reply" button. That's how bad I am. :D |
Re: I need some computer building geek help, please.
I gotcha Scott. I am just trying to help. Sounds like you have a good handle on things.
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I flat out forget how to do it, even. Makes me wonder if the eco drives can be put in raid. I think they spin down and shut off all the time. I also remember that way back when, I couldn't even see if a drive had failed. I'm guessing things have come a long way since then. Do you have a good source where I can go get read up and caught up? That might make my mind up for me if I'm more informed. |
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I use three monitors right now. I think with the 5770 and the onboard graphics, I can have four. That's plenty. I don't even know if I'll ever add a fourth. |
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If I had a nice video camera I would post up my Media Center PC with a SSD loading 200+ blurays in windows media center(covers, descriptions and all info) in about 6 seconds. Use to take nearly 30 seconds. Not trying to pimp/sell SSDs just stating the facts. So if they sound like something you could use, get one. If not don't. SSD's are ideal for programs that use a lot of memory and have a lot of files. Slow loading programs, I only use windows media center as an example because mine has about 4 TBs to load with it. |
Re: I need some computer building geek help, please.
I can see that, Bill. For tv, it'd be a great idea. :tu
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I don't think it would be a problem. The RAID is supported by the SATA controller on the motherboard, the drives don't know the difference. Most all of them support RAID 0 and RAID 1. Some also support RAID 5. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID RAID, an acronym for Redundant Array of Independent Disks (Changed from its original term Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks), RAID 0 (block-level striping without parity or mirroring) has no (or zero) redundancy. It provides improved performance and additional storage but no fault tolerance. Hence simple stripe sets are normally referred to as RAID 0. Any disk failure destroys the array, and the likelihood of failure increases with more disks in the array... (not what you want) RAID 1 (mirroring without parity or striping), data is written identically to multiple disks (a "mirrored set"). Although many implementations create sets of 2 disks, sets may contain 3 or more disks. Array provides fault tolerance from disk errors or failures and continues to operate as long as at least one drive in the mirrored set is functioning. With appropriate operating system support, there can be increased read performance, and only a minimal (i.e. almost no) write performance reduction. It's really simple to setup. When you plug in both drives and boot up you may have to hit a function key to get into the BIOS or Array Configuration, create a new volume/array, add both disks, choose RAID 1 and save your changes. The options and wording may differ slightly, but if you only have two disks, the only options will be RAID 0 or RAID 1. So long as Windows 7 has a driver for your motherboard, you just install Windows as normal. Most of the array controllers will have some kind of notification if a drive fails. Otherwise you won't even notice, since you'll still be up and running. All you do is shutdown, replace bad drive, and boot back up. The array controller should automatically mirror the data onto the new disk. As long as it is the same architecture (SATA) and = or larger than the other disk, it will work. It doesn't have to be exactly the same. |
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I read the wiki stuff yesterday. I'll find a "how to" later. I think you've done sold me. :D I'll be running a 300gb boot disk, a 1.5 tb storage, and a 2tb storage, all redundant. I'm, thinking that if I get serious about tossing garbage, I won't have all that much to transfer, and it won't be a big deal. I may start that today. I'm getting pretty itchy about pulling the trigger on the hardware... |
Re: I need some computer building geek help, please.
I changed up some stuff, mostly based on what you guys have said.
This stuff stayed the same... Western Digital Caviar Green WD20EARS 2TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive SAPPHIRE Vapor-X 100283VX-2L Radeon HD 5770 (Juniper XT) 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card w/ Eyefinity ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3 AM3 AMD 890GX SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Black Edition Thuban 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Six-Core Desktop Processor HDT90ZFBGRBOX CORSAIR XMS 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 Desktop Memory Model CMP8GX3M4A1333C9 COOLER MASTER ATCS 840 RC-840-KKN1-GP Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case Here's the new stuff... Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit 1-Pack - OEM Two of these PSU's: CORSAIR Enthusiast Series CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible ... Being as I've already spent the Gross National Product of most small countries, I'm going to look real hard at a BluRay Player/Burner and some media. Probably gonna get this one... LG Black Super Multi SATA WH12LS30 LightScribe Support - OEM |
Re: I need some computer building geek help, please.
Looks good Scott, I agree with saving the coin on a video card. Especially if you're not gaming. Hope everything works out for you and you enjoy your new machine. :tu
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That 5770 is supposed to crunch everything out there at high res, not that it matters. It's a decent option for recent and legacy games, the price is reasonable, and I've had really good luck with Sapphire. This board has onboard graphics, and is supposed to be able to do a hybrid xfire that brings up that card's numbers. It supports Eyefinity and has an hdmi port, so it's got real promise. It looks wicked badass, too. :D |
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Question:
That BluRay burner I picked is sata. Does that mean I'll have to burn up a sata port on my mobo, or does it just take a sata power connector? (Can you tell I've never used a sata anything except hard drives?) If I can't use my ide channel, can I get a sata pci card so I have enough sata ports for my six hdd's and this here dummy? (The mobo only has six sata ports.) Or are there other options I'm unaware of? So far, this is the only snag I've hit. Not too bad, but it's gonna make a headache if I don't order whatever I need to make it all fly. |
Re: I need some computer building geek help, please.
yes a sata burner will use a sata ports.
yes you can use a sata card for more sata ports |
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http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813130274
this is the mother board im running ..it has 7 sata ports and i love this board... no built in video but for the card you looking to run the crossfire wont help much with the asus onboard video. also i noticed you picked a sata 3 hard drive why not a sata 6 since the new board will support it? im an x-asus fanboy and since i went msi im so much happier might look at this as a sub for the video card http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102913 |
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Aha!!! They updated Newegg. Now my wishlist shows up in the public thingie.
Here's my wishlist. |
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i would go 2 x 4gig on the ram in case you want to upgrade to 16gb down the road
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I need 3 or four monitor support, I don't game, it means nothing to me. The 6870 is awesome (the 6870 vapor x is awesomer), but for another 80 bucks, it just gives me more of what I don't need. If anything, I'll downgrade my card. I settled for something decent and reliable is all. I saw the 6870 and even carted it at one point cause I thought the price was great. :D On the hdd's (I carted two), it was just cost and brand. I don't need the speed there, either. No use for it. I'm retired, I'm not in a big hurry. Ever. :D I went and carted a pci express sata card, and I'm absolutely dreading trying to get it to work. I think I may go look through the msi stuff a bit closer and see if I can find something. Thank You!!! |
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neither board has 2.1 pcie x16 slots
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