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-   -   Debit Card Fraud (http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=44218)

Starscream 03-30-2011 08:03 AM
Debit Card Fraud
 
I'm not sure how, but my wife's debit card number was stolen. $225 was charged on her card for an online poker site. Neither of us gamble or play poker online. She called the bank, they deactivated her card and are in the process of sending her a new card. Looks like I'm out $225 b/c we noticed the transaction 4 days later. If we noticed it w/in 48hrs of the time the transaction took place, we would have only been responsible for $50 of it, but being 2 days after that time, it looks like we're responsible for up to $500 of it.

Anyone been hit up with debit card fraud before? Is there a way to recover the $225 or are we just SOL at this point?

icehog3 03-30-2011 08:05 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
That is bullchit, Andy. I don't check my on-line banking site every day....according to your bank, if I had 20K in my account, got hit by fraud on Monday and didn't notice it until Thursday, I am SOL?

I have worked with over a dozen banks on these cases, and never heard of such a policy in my life.

awsmith4 03-30-2011 08:05 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
Your bank should allow you to contest the charges and you should get it back.

A few years ago I was driving to North Carolina when I got a call asking if I had just bought gas in Montreal. It took a few days to straighten out but I got the funds back.

HollywoodQue 03-30-2011 08:07 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
Not sure about recovering the lost, but I would definately cancell that account and look for another CC company that offers better protection. One that will alert you when there are questionable charges. 48 hours is not long enough to caught a fraudalent charge unless you check it almost everyday.

Change CC companies!!

icehog3 03-30-2011 08:07 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
FYI...the banks have the victim make a report with their local police department. They may put the amount stolen on "hold" against your balance, just until their investigation is through ( longest I have seen is a couple weeks)....then they do not hold you liable. One thing I would do if what you are saying holds true, is find another bank immediately.

Blueface 03-30-2011 08:09 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
Is your debit card a Visa?

Starscream 03-30-2011 08:13 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icehog3 (Post 1221430)
FYI...the banks have the victim make a report with their local police department. They may put the amount stolen on "hold" against your balance, just until their investigation is through ( longest I have seen is a couple weeks)....then they do not hold you liable. One thing I would do if what you are saying holds true, is find another bank immediately.
The 48 hour deal is federal law as far as I know, not bank policy.
I'm having my wife file a police report today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by awsmith4 (Post 1221426)
Your bank should allow you to contest the charges and you should get it back.

A few years ago I was driving to North Carolina when I got a call asking if I had just bought gas in Montreal. It took a few days to straighten out but I got the funds back.
Was that with a Debit Card or Credit Card?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueface (Post 1221434)
Is your debit card a Visa?
Yes.

icehog3 03-30-2011 08:17 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starscream (Post 1221439)
The 48 hour deal is federal law as far as I know, not bank policy.
Apparently the banks can have a friendlier policy if they choose to, because I haven't seen that happen in the last 15 years, Andy.

awsmith4 03-30-2011 08:22 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starscream (Post 1221439)

Was that with a Debit Card or Credit Card?


.
Debit Card

I am with everyone else, if your bank is willing to lose you over $225 I would move on.

Starscream 03-30-2011 08:23 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icehog3 (Post 1221449)
Apparently the banks can have a friendlier policy if they choose to, because I haven't seen that happen in the last 15 years, Andy.
I haven't personally talked to anyone at the bank. My wife is the one who called. I may have to call and check on it myself. It was her card number that was used, but it's our account, not just hers.

Starscream 03-30-2011 08:26 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
I bank at a Credit Union. Are there any different laws for credit unions vs. big banks?

Blueface 03-30-2011 08:27 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
I am confused.
If a Visa debit card, Visa offers protection and you should not be responsible regardless of bank policy.

mosesbotbol 03-30-2011 08:28 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
I have been hit 4-5 times with my INGDirect card and never had to pay out a dime. Actually, they are the ones calling me about a fraud attempt. The cancel the card and I have fill out a form saying it was fraud. It's pain, but worth it.

Not only that, I get an email from ING on every transaction so I would know immediately if it was fraud that slips by them.

Starscream 03-30-2011 08:29 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueface (Post 1221461)
I am confused.
If a Visa debit card, Visa offers protection and you should not be responsible regardless of bank policy.
So should I call Visa and report it with them?

Blueface 03-30-2011 08:31 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starscream (Post 1221464)
So should I call Visa and report it with them?
Your card is serviced by the bank but with Visa as your protection.
I would in fact reach out to see Visa policy for card issued as opposed to bank policy.

Starscream 03-30-2011 08:32 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
Thanks, Carlos. I'll check it out after work today.

wayner123 03-30-2011 08:33 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
Debit card fraud is different than Credit card fraud. Here is a better explanation of it: http://www.kevincoffee.com/money/atm...nformation.htm

Banks have their own set of requirements on debit cards and vary from bank to bank.

Quote:
Consumers should review the ground rules of their check cards. Debit cards are convenient for many purposes, but people need to be careful. If there is an ultimate dispute, the bank has to make the decision either to credit your account and it takes the loss, or not credit it and you take the loss.

fissure 03-30-2011 08:34 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
I bank at a credit union and have had the visa check/debit card stolen. We didn't notice for 4-5 days and never had an issue. Didn't have to get in contact with visa. Our credit union stood behind us and took care of everything, to the tune of ~$800. No questions asked or hoops to jump through. I would be for sure looking for a new place to bank.

Blueface 03-30-2011 08:36 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
Wow.
Interesting.

I have Bank of America for my Visa debit card and they credited me in full, instantly.

48 hours is ridiculous as most don't check accounts daily.
I have email notification of all transactions just in case.

wayner123 03-30-2011 08:39 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
Where you "might" be able to have some room to move is, if you don't have online banking. Some people still only use their paper statements. You could make a case that if you were one of these people, that there is NO WAY you would know it within 48 hours. They can't argue with that.

That is one reason I have not signed up for electronic statements only. It's just another fail safe.

Aero95 03-30-2011 08:45 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starscream (Post 1221464)
So should I call Visa and report it with them?

No you should just have to call your credit union and they should take it over.What my bank did was start an investigation and after a couple weeks they credited my account back. I would ask to speak to the branch manager since it seems somebody does not know what they are doing.

Aero95 03-30-2011 08:48 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
Can you even use a debit card on a online gambling site? I thought you could only use a credit card. If so I wonder how they obtained the pin number.

Starscream 03-30-2011 08:56 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aero95 (Post 1221485)
Can you even use a debit card on a online gambling site? I thought you could only use a credit card. If so I wonder how they obtained the pin number.
You can use a debit card for online purchases (or anywhere for that matter) w/o a pin number.




My wife called back this morning. Investigation is being done in Raliegh (state capital) and the bank will get back with us after it is over. She's also on her way to file a police report now.

G G 03-30-2011 08:59 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
Andy, I have been with Community First Credit Union of Florida for lots of years, they used to be called Educational Community Credit Union. I have had this happen twice in the past and both times I did have to go to the branch and fill out some paperwork to contest the charges and received a provsional credit pending their investigation. The last time we did have to get a police report done in our home county even though the transaction was in Nashville, TN, and submit the report within a certain number of days. Both times it happened the provisional credit stayed in our account because the investigation obviously showed it wasn't our transaction. There is a branch in Yulee if you are thinking about changing where you do business I believe you would be happy with them.

poker 03-30-2011 09:08 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
Interesting read:

http://www.wisebread.com/are-debit-c...s-credit-cards



Especially this:

Quote:
....Since Visa is one of our sponsors I was able to get a very quick response back from their spokesperson:

Despite the popularity of debit cards, consumers are often confused about the security features and consumer protections debit cards offer. Many of the same features and protections provided by credit cards are also offered with debit cards. It’s important to know that Visa debit cards carry the same protections as Visa credit cards.

All Visa cardholders (prepaid, debit or credit) are protected by Visa’s Zero Liability policy.

md4958 03-30-2011 09:13 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starscream (Post 1221419)
I'm not sure how, but my wife's debit card number was stolen. $225 was charged on her card for an online poker site. Neither of us gamble or play poker online. She called the bank, they deactivated her card and are in the process of sending her a new card. Looks like I'm out $225 b/c we noticed the transaction 4 days later. If we noticed it w/in 48hrs of the time the transaction took place, we would have only been responsible for $50 of it, but being 2 days after that time, it looks like we're responsible for up to $500 of it.

Anyone been hit up with debit card fraud before? Is there a way to recover the $225 or are we just SOL at this point?
It might be time to switch banks. Bank of America has a zero liability policy on fraud. They can be douchebags, but they have their good points too.

T.G 03-30-2011 09:22 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
This is interesting, if I'm reading the FTC info correctly, it sounds like it depends on how the charges were made. If they were made as debits, you might be screwed. If they were made as CC charges, then you might only be on the hook for $50.

Do you have access to any attorneys who might be able to give you their interpretation of the following, or better yet, know the laws that the FTC is referring to?

Quote:
Credit Card Loss or Fraudulent Charges (FCBA). Your maximum liability under federal law for unauthorized use of your credit card is $50. If you report the loss before your credit cards are used, the FCBA says the card issuer cannot hold you responsible for any unauthorized charges. If a thief uses your cards before you report them missing, the most you will owe for unauthorized charges is $50 per card. Also, if the loss involves your credit card number, but not the card itself, you have no liability for unauthorized use.

After the loss, review your billing statements carefully. If they show any unauthorized charges, it's best to send a letter to the card issuer describing each questionable charge. Again, tell the card issuer the date your card was lost or stolen, or when you first noticed unauthorized charges, and when you first reported the problem to them. Be sure to send the letter to the address provided for billing errors. Do not send it with a payment or to the address where you send your payments unless you are directed to do so.

ATM or Debit Card Loss or Fraudulent Transfers (EFTA). Your liability under federal law for unauthorized use of your ATM or debit card depends on how quickly you report the loss. If you report an ATM or debit card missing before it's used without your permission, the EFTA says the card issuer cannot hold you responsible for any unauthorized transfers. If unauthorized use occurs before you report it, your liability under federal law depends on how quickly you report the loss.

For example, if you report the loss within two business days after you realize your card is missing, you will not be responsible for more than $50 for unauthorized use. However, if you don't report the loss within two business days after you discover the loss, you could lose up to $500 because of an unauthorized transfer. You also risk unlimited loss if you fail to report an unauthorized transfer within 60 days after your bank statement containing unauthorized use is mailed to you. That means you could lose all the money in your bank account and the unused portion of your line of credit established for overdrafts. However, for unauthorized transfers involving only your debit card number (not the loss of the card), you are liable only for transfers that occur after 60 days following the mailing of your bank statement containing the unauthorized use and before you report the loss.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/cons...dit/cre04.shtm


---------
EDIT - this post was started when the last post in this thread was Carlos's comment in #15. Looks like Kelly found some good info on Visa that might help you avoid the situation in the FTC passage above.

wayner123 03-30-2011 09:26 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
Visa does provide some coverage, but the banks are who determine the pace at which that coverage is met:

Quote:
In outright fraud cases, Visa or MasterCard voluntarily protect check cards they issue through member banks as if they were credit cards, meaning the maximum a defrauded customer is liable for is $50. Visa states they have adopted a "zero-liability" policy, which applys to its debit cards as well as credit cards. Many banks eventually refund the entire amount stolen.

But different banks have different policies concerning disputes - including how long they will take to investigate disputed charges, and how soon after a reported fraud they "temporarily credit" an account. This is where the main differences are visible between a credit card and a debit card.

Lucky_Hippo 03-30-2011 09:31 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
Ouch, been there before brother. Sorry to hear you got hit be these lowlifes. My wife's Visa Debit card # was stolen while she was out of town on business and they used the number at an ATM several times in TN before it was noticed. Our money was returned in full almost immediatly by our bank. Wife just had to stop in at our local branch and sign some paper work.

Good news is they eventually caught the theifs and are in the process of running them through the justice system now. We get TN court papers 2 or 3 times a week keeping us abreast of what's being filed.

I'd sure look hard at other banks and even let yours know you will be shopping around if they won't come up with a better policy then what they are offering you at this time.

Blueface 03-30-2011 09:49 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by poker (Post 1221511)
That is what I thought Kelly.

TBone 03-30-2011 09:51 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
I had a similar situation years ago...I was stationed in the Philippines and banked with Alaska Federal CU and charges off my card came up in Florida...my family and I had just been to Disney for vacation...my credit union posted the funds back into my account and had an investigation started...come to find out one of the restaurants we ate at had a bad egg and was stealing CC numbers with the 3 digit code on the back...I'm still with Alaska because of this...I'd take everyone's advice and look for another Credit Union...hope all works out

Skywalker 03-30-2011 10:01 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
That Sucks!!!:(














BTW - Great game of poker last night!;)

Starscream 03-30-2011 12:07 PM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skywalker;1221582


[I
BTW - Great game of poker last night![/i];)
:sl



:)

Silound 03-31-2011 12:51 AM
Re: Debit Card Fraud
 
I had this similar sort of thing happen once. Chase backed me 100%, right up to making sure I could pay my bills on time with an interest free short term loan until the dispute was resolved (cash in hand that day, however the interest rate was 13% if I was held liable after the investigation...so it had a catch of sorts).

Honestly, best thing I love about Chase is the fact that they aren't so big as to deny they need your business to stay afloat, and they're willing to bend over backwards many times to keep you happy. YMMV


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